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Post by lilyg on May 18, 2022 17:22:43 GMT
Unfortunately once that resentment sets in, it can be very hard for someone to come back to the table. Hold me tight by Sue Johnson and anything by Gottman might be good starting points on how to reconnect and learn how to communicate through this. Thank you! I will read it. It seems like he is hurting a lot but cannot see it getting better.
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Post by lilyg on May 18, 2022 17:25:21 GMT
Yes, I think we were but it's clearly not working out if he feels this way. He feels like he has to do things to help me be better... I think I don't need that, but a supporting and empathetic partner. Thank you, I will! I tend to blame myself a lot for everything. Unfortunately that can be an ugly side to anxious behavior, the critical, blaming, controlling side. It can manifest in avoidant as well, but he seems more activated than not by what you've described and seems to see himself as a victim? Definitely need boundaries around that... it gets messy when there are attachment issues involved, and especially so if they loom large. I think it's something that can be overcome IF it's not steering the whole dynamic and if both partners are working toward self responsibility. If not, then it's death by a thousand paper cuts. I agree with anne though- time for some couples counseling? Thank you for the advice. Yeah I can see him very sad, crying and anxious about it. It seems like he does not believe in me anymore. I feel so bad in making him feel that way. I wish he could see my side and be more understanding but I think he has had enough. I do think he is trying his best and I'm sorry I still could not make him happy and feel safe.
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Post by lilyg on May 18, 2022 21:23:45 GMT
Unfortunately once that resentment sets in, it can be very hard for someone to come back to the table. Hold me tight by Sue Johnson and anything by Gottman might be good starting points on how to reconnect and learn how to communicate through this. Oh my god this book is amazing. We are Tim and Sarah. I've sent it to him but he's not very interested in reading psychology things. Oh well, at least if we break up I can learn a lot.
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Post by cherrycola on May 18, 2022 22:53:36 GMT
I'm going to assume you are reading Hold me tight. It really is an amazing book and is attachment theory just under a different name. I think when you can see the patterns and descriptions it really helps put things into perspective.
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Post by alexandra on May 19, 2022 0:06:41 GMT
It seems like he does not believe in me anymore. I feel so bad in making him feel that way. Hi! Welcome back, and I'm sorry things are trending back down with him at the moment. Mostly I wanted to point out something I'm seeing here: you're not making him feel any way. He is an adult and his own person and feels how he feels. It is your responsibility to be respectful of him, but his to manage his feelings. If you're both looking at this as you MAKE him feel a certain way, then that is the unhealthy codependency taking root. You also said: "The thing is that we're constantly fighting because every misstep I make in the way he feels like I am not doing enough and I am always going to be the same. I've messed up some important days for him (I was tired at a concert he loved and he knew I was not having the greatest time, and he started a new job and he felt I neglected his archievement because I was working) It's like he never sees the changes I am making, or he wants them faster that I can deliver. I honestly want to work it out with him, but I am feeling very pressured and I hate to feel like that. It's like he thinks I am making excuses while I think I am doing my best and feeling good about myself." When you were tired at the concert, how did that work out? Did you want to go home and either tell him that or passively indicate it? Did you truly not mind waiting it out while he enjoyed it, even though you weren't feeling well, and tell him that? I'm trying to figure out if he's making assumptions about how you feel, and how you're both communicating. For example, if you told him you didn't feel well but were okay to stay, and you meant that, did he believe you? Or did he assume you weren't saying what you meant and he felt bad the entire time and then left early? I'm asking because my FA ex used to do this to me. If I didn't enjoy somewhere we were that he wanted to be or I wasn't feeling well but I was okay with hanging out for a bit and entertaining myself so he could have fun, he'd get hypervigilant and kind of not believe me saying I'd be fine? And then he'd stay and do what he wanted and feel bad I wasn't feeling great about whatever we were doing, but it would end up only manifesting as his resentment towards me. This really had nothing to do with me. It was him acting out his childhood dynamics with people who were passive aggressive about similar situations (they'd have played the martyr about staying), having blurry boundaries with him (the hypervigilance), and his FA fear of engulfment overwhelming him. Of course, understanding that was not helpful because he didn't want to go deeper than surface level, and the easiest answer in that case was I must be "making him feel that way." But if your boyfriend is still interested in growth, then the growth for him here is figuring out why he's not taking you at your word, and as already mentioned, why he can't properly separate your needs and emotions from his. In my case, my ex had zero interest in growth, awareness, or change, so we couldn't resolve anything and it didn't work out. If your boyfriend is still in it and will agree to couples counseling, this is where I'd start. And it's not blaming him, your side of this would be exploring if you're communicating your needs directly and consistently or are you being passive aggressive. Also, are you trying to rely too much on what he wants you to do instead of what you want to do for yourself? It sounds like taking his advice about working less, hobbies more, etc. was good and kicked off you working through things for yourself in a direction you wanted to be in. You weren't just doing it for him. But now that you did those things and have switched to taking your own advice for what you need and want to do next, since it sounds like you're feeling better and better, is he resentful that he's being left behind? Or that he's not in control? What may be happening here, in regards to feeling like you're growing apart, is sure, you may have been getting depressed and he's helped point that out so you got back on track. But once on track, maybe one or both of you is trying to grow out of codependency in certain areas, and the other is resisting? Or it's also possible that you're growing apart as you're changing during the pandemic, but that doesn't mean you misjudged your compatibility earlier on. If he's willing to acknowledge his role here and go back to couples therapy, there's definitely space for you both to explore. If he is "done" and doesn't want to work through this with you, there won't be much you can do. But since you've worked through your issues together before, I hope he gives it a chance to try again!
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Post by lilyg on May 19, 2022 5:05:43 GMT
It seems like he does not believe in me anymore. I feel so bad in making him feel that way. Hi! Welcome back, and I'm sorry things are trending back down with him at the moment. Mostly I wanted to point out something I'm seeing here: you're not making him feel any way. He is an adult and his own person and feels how he feels. It is your responsibility to be respectful of him, but his to manage his feelings. If you're both looking at this as you MAKE him feel a certain way, then that is the unhealthy codependency taking root. You also said: "The thing is that we're constantly fighting because every misstep I make in the way he feels like I am not doing enough and I am always going to be the same. I've messed up some important days for him (I was tired at a concert he loved and he knew I was not having the greatest time, and he started a new job and he felt I neglected his archievement because I was working) It's like he never sees the changes I am making, or he wants them faster that I can deliver. I honestly want to work it out with him, but I am feeling very pressured and I hate to feel like that. It's like he thinks I am making excuses while I think I am doing my best and feeling good about myself." When you were tired at the concert, how did that work out? Did you want to go home and either tell him that or passively indicate it? Did you truly not mind waiting it out while he enjoyed it, even though you weren't feeling well, and tell him that? I'm trying to figure out if he's making assumptions about how you feel, and how you're both communicating. For example, if you told him you didn't feel well but were okay to stay, and you meant that, did he believe you? Or did he assume you weren't saying what you meant and he felt bad the entire time and then left early? I'm asking because my FA ex used to do this to me. If I didn't enjoy somewhere we were that he wanted to be or I wasn't feeling well but I was okay with hanging out for a bit and entertaining myself so he could have fun, he'd get hypervigilant and kind of not believe me saying I'd be fine? And then he'd stay and do what he wanted and feel bad I wasn't feeling great about whatever we were doing, but it would end up only manifesting as his resentment towards me. This really had nothing to do with me. It was him acting out his childhood dynamics with people who were passive aggressive about similar situations (they'd have played the martyr about staying), having blurry boundaries with him (the hypervigilance), and his FA fear of engulfment overwhelming him. Of course, understanding that was not helpful because he didn't want to go deeper than surface level, and the easiest answer in that case was I must be "making him feel that way." But if your boyfriend is still interested in growth, then the growth for him here is figuring out why he's not taking you at your word, and as already mentioned, why he can't properly separate your needs and emotions from his. In my case, my ex had zero interest in growth, awareness, or change, so we couldn't resolve anything and it didn't work out. If your boyfriend is still in it and will agree to couples counseling, this is where I'd start. And it's not blaming him, your side of this would be exploring if you're communicating your needs directly and consistently or are you being passive aggressive. Also, are you trying to rely too much on what he wants you to do instead of what you want to do for yourself? It sounds like taking his advice about working less, hobbies more, etc. was good and kicked off you working through things for yourself in a direction you wanted to be in. You weren't just doing it for him. But now that you did those things and have switched to taking your own advice for what you need and want to do next, since it sounds like you're feeling better and better, is he resentful that he's being left behind? Or that he's not in control? What may be happening here, in regards to feeling like you're growing apart, is sure, you may have been getting depressed and he's helped point that out so you got back on track. But once on track, maybe one or both of you is trying to grow out of codependency in certain areas, and the other is resisting? Or it's also possible that you're growing apart as you're changing during the pandemic, but that doesn't mean you misjudged your compatibility earlier on. If he's willing to acknowledge his role here and go back to couples therapy, there's definitely space for you both to explore. If he is "done" and doesn't want to work through this with you, there won't be much you can do. But since you've worked through your issues together before, I hope he gives it a chance to try again! You're hitting the nail in the head. I even told him yesterday I feel it's not very healthy that he feels so affected about how I feel. I mean I understand that, as a couple, we affect each other. But it seems like it's too much. I ruin his day completely. It used to happen to me when he deactivated when we started dating, but I started to practice to do my own thing and separate from his feelings and I feel I can do it now. He understood what I was trying to say but is still defensive about it. About the concert, I just wanted to rest for a bit. When he go nervous and asked me I told him that and then I started to make small talk with him about the concert and then tried to enjoy it more, but for him it was already ruined because this was supposed to be something special. I understand... But I think it was too much and he knew I didn't love trash metal a lot and... I don't know. I wish he had understood. We talked about it and I thought we had resolved it but he talked about it yesterday as an example on how he was feeling. Another example I think is over the top: once, during my working hours, he cooked me breakfast and I had to jump into a call before being able to eat it (I told him beforehand I had a meeting but would try to finish as fast as I can). It took me 15 minutes after he served the plate to hang up and eat but he was furious. I don't understand how he thinks working during my working hours is being obsessed with work but anyway. I think he feels like I am not changing because I am not doing the things he thinks I should do? Like, if I want to spend time with girlfriends he gets mad I am not drawing in the park. For him this means I am not changing. The thing is... I think I try to be pretty honest with myself and... You know? While I have to understand him and be present and help him with his emotional needs... I am a separate person and I think I am allowed to spend time as I want as long as I also take care of our relationship and I am doing things that help me feel better. I am a person, not a narrative. I am sorry about your ex. I think my partner has changed and wants to work things out but he does not believe in therapy. He thinks relationships should not be work. At the same time... He has tried to meet me many times in the middle and has understood to use his voice and talk about his feelings, the thing is that he's not feeling secure tight now and I feel he's activating/deactivating. I asked him if he wanted space and he told me he wanted it to I am trying to do it, but he goes to sleep with me and I can see him getting upset when I take too long out of the house. So well... I cannot take all the burden. I feel very very sad but I cannot take all the responsability and blame.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 6:00:59 GMT
Oh wow, lilyg, I'm really sorry to read how controlling he is of your activities and your time! This sounds very unhealthy to me. You absolutely have every right to spend your time how you like. Trying to control what you do, how long you are gone, etc... that is abusive in my opinion. Becoming furious over breakfast when you are working, too. This sounds serious to me, how toxic his behavior is. You should have autonomy, freedom, and peace in a relationship. Has he always been this way?
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Post by lilyg on May 19, 2022 6:25:26 GMT
Oh wow, lilyg, I'm really sorry to read how controlling he is of your activities and your time! This sounds very unhealthy to me. You absolutely have every right to spend your time how you like. Trying to control what you do, how long you are gone, etc... that is abusive in my opinion. Becoming furious over breakfast when you are working, too. This sounds serious to me, how toxic his behavior is. You should have autonomy, freedom, and peace in a relationship. Has he always been this way? Not at all. That's what I loved about him, that he always encouraged me to have my own time, aspirations and life. I think he's so panicked right now that we're losing our bond this is happening. But I can only assume. He has always been more avoidant than me until now. I feel like it's an anxious behaviour. I have always suspected that when one had an attachment wound, it can always go either way depending on your circumstances? The thing is that I am trying to better my self esteem and boundaries with people in therapy and this is not helping much. It is very sad.
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Post by lilyg on May 19, 2022 10:27:48 GMT
As an update, I told him to read the book Hold me tight, as there's a couple going through the same but he just got angry telling me I think reading books and going to therapy is the solution to everything. Of course I don't act like it but he's still very hang up on the idea that I'm not doing absolutely anything and that it's all my fault, that I killed the relationship and his happiness. I think he's being very unfair. He's very set in that I'm exactly the same and I haven't done anything, which worries me. I feel very controled and not heard. I've tried talking about understanding I have things to change but told him to let me do my own thing in my personal life and of course, held me accountable on the relationship connection, spending time together, being there for him... I told him I felt like he feels responsible for my feelings and like I feel I am responsible for his feelings and while he's very angry, I hope he can mature that thought later on.
He wants to talk and feel heard. He wants me to take action on myself. I can agree on that, but he still blames me for everything. And while I understand what he needs and I know what I did to make this happen, I am very worried about his attitude right now. I don't want to be held responsible for everything always, or that he keeps being controlling. I don't know if it's a matter that he processes his feelings or this is as good as it gets. I don't want to feel small or like I have to take everything in my hands everytime we hit a rough patch.
He got very angry when I told him I felt controlled and he told me we were done, that I was selfish and how could I tell him that. I told him ok but he just kept going. Finally I told him that I was going to work on myself anyway and that I wanted to do what he needed from me, but that I wanted us to be a team and not be one versus de other. I asked him if he felt like I understood what he wanted to say me and how he felt and he said he did. I do not feel heard, though. I think right now he is not able to see me because he is really activated right now. But if he cannot do it when he regulates... I don't want to be in a relationship like that.
I feel like everytime we have a real problem, he just goes into the 'I don't know what I want to do right now' and it is starting to emotionally exhaust me. I think it's why I am not crying and begging.
At least I feel like I'll be fine whatever happens. I am very excited to feel like myself again and regain my self-esteem. I can do it.
Sorry for spamming I needed to get it out of my system.
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Post by anne12 on May 19, 2022 11:36:13 GMT
lilyg I’m sorry to read what the two of you are going through. Do you think he would listen to Jason Gaddis, who used to be mainly fa ? His a relationship coach instagram.com/jaysongaddis?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=What does your therapist say ? You could choose to call a couples counselor a conflict mediator. Is there any chance that he would see a mediator with you ? He changed his job, maybe he is extra stressed and desorganised right now… Do you know why he want you to draw - both drawing and being with other women produceses oxytocin, which helps women to better get into recieving mode.
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Post by lilyg on May 19, 2022 11:59:50 GMT
lilyg I’m sorry to read what the two of you are going through. Do you think he would listen to Jason Gaddis, who used to be mainly fa ? His a relationship coach instagram.com/jaysongaddis?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=What does your therapist say ? You could choose to call a couples counselor a conflict mediator. Is there any chance that he would see a mediator with you ? He changed his job, maybe he is extra stressed and desorganised right now… Do you know why he want you to draw - both drawing and being with other women produceses oxytocin, which helps women to better get into recieving mode. He says therapy is not the solution and got very angry at me trying to send him information to think together. I know that what's important should be worked in an objective way. I was just trying to start a conversation and a middle ground but for him I'm just trying to not accept is my fault and do the things I have to do. So no, sadly it won't help. He says he is happy with everything but me. I have been drawing and writing and connecting with friends. I do feel much happier and myself he says I have done it just a few times and thinking that therapy and reading books and writing in my diary is going to help but it won't.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 13:23:56 GMT
Oh wow, lilyg , I'm really sorry to read how controlling he is of your activities and your time! This sounds very unhealthy to me. You absolutely have every right to spend your time how you like. Trying to control what you do, how long you are gone, etc... that is abusive in my opinion. Becoming furious over breakfast when you are working, too. This sounds serious to me, how toxic his behavior is. You should have autonomy, freedom, and peace in a relationship. Has he always been this way? Not at all. That's what I loved about him, that he always encouraged me to have my own time, aspirations and life. I think he's so panicked right now that we're losing our bond this is happening. But I can only assume. He has always been more avoidant than me until now. I feel like it's an anxious behaviour. I have always suspected that when one had an attachment wound, it can always go either way depending on your circumstances? The thing is that I am trying to better my self esteem and boundaries with people in therapy and this is not helping much. It is very sad. I'm so sorry lily, I didn't realize the severity of his toxic behavior. The insights I offered were intended for the context of two individuals being equal and cooperating together to take individual responsibility and responsibility for the relationship. This is clearly not the case with him, as evidenced by his perpetual blaming, temper tantrums, and how he belittles your attempts to grow and seek solutions. It's really rather absurd to mock the idea of therapy and reading literature in favor of acting hatefully and resorting to anger and control and whining to address issues. Unfortunately, it does look like the relationship is unsustainable and a threat to your well being. It's great that you are in therapy to support your continued growth and understanding about boundaries, and nurturing your self esteem. Have you been able to contemplate a plan for dissolving the relationship and addressing the practical issues involved with that? Have you been able to prepare emotionally for letting this relationship go? I don't know what the future holds for him or his behavior, or you, or your relationship. However I think a plan B is good to have and entertaining the practical and emotional notion of independence and freedom from toxic dynamics can help address any blocks you may have to that. In other words, addressing any fears about the logistics, gaining support for breakup recovery, etc... sorting through the potentials and laying the groundwork to be healthy even if that means ending the relationship. Im really sorry you are experiencing this, the sadness and pain of the way this is turning.
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Post by lilyg on May 19, 2022 13:32:13 GMT
Not at all. That's what I loved about him, that he always encouraged me to have my own time, aspirations and life. I think he's so panicked right now that we're losing our bond this is happening. But I can only assume. He has always been more avoidant than me until now. I feel like it's an anxious behaviour. I have always suspected that when one had an attachment wound, it can always go either way depending on your circumstances? The thing is that I am trying to better my self esteem and boundaries with people in therapy and this is not helping much. It is very sad. I'm so sorry lily, I didn't realize the severity of his toxic behavior. The insights I offered were intended for the context of two individuals being equal and cooperating together to take individual responsibility and responsibility for the relationship. This is clearly not the case with him, as evidenced by his perpetual blaming, temper tantrums, and how he belittles your attempts to grow and seek solutions. It's really rather absurd to mock the idea of therapy and reading literature in favor of acting hatefully and resorting to anger and control and whining to address issues. Unfortunately, it does look like the relationship is unsustainable and a threat to your well being. It's great that you are in therapy to support your continued growth and understanding about boundaries, and nurturing your self esteem. Have you been able to contemplate a plan for dissolving the relationship and addressing the practical issues involved with that? Have you been able to prepare emotionally for letting this relationship go? I don't know what the future holds for him or his behavior, or you, or your relationship. However I think a plan B is good to have and entertaining the practical and emotional notion of independence and freedom from toxic dynamics can help address any blocks you may have to that. In other words, addressing any fears about the logistics, gaining support for breakup recovery, etc... sorting through the potentials and laying the groundwork to be healthy even if that means ending the relationship. Im really sorry you are experiencing this, the sadness and pain of the way this is turning. Thank you so much for this. I feel very moved by all the help you're offering. I honeslty don't understand, I think he's really angry and in a very unhealthy loop. He has never been like this and always supported me before when doing all of this. I don't know if he's really hurting and angry, desperate or if he has always thought like this and now he's just over it all. Right now I feel so small and judged. I agree is not healthy and not where I want to be ever in my life. Yes I am preparing for it, emotionally mostly. I knew we were on a rough patch but this... I didn't expect this. I have always felt he had my back. He was my person, you know? We have a dog together and we are living together, so we will have to think about logistics, but I'm not that worried about it. I have change so many times my living arrangements and my life, I'm used to it.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 13:59:06 GMT
I think you sound strong, intelligent, and possessing of a beautiful nature and that you deserve much, much better than this. Even if he was good in the past... you clearly deserve good that lasts and lasts and doesn't kick you when you're down. A day at a time, you will be ok, and in time, better than ok.
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Post by lilyg on May 19, 2022 16:18:25 GMT
I think you sound strong, intelligent, and possessing of a beautiful nature and that you deserve much, much better than this. Even if he was good in the past... you clearly deserve good that lasts and lasts and doesn't kick you when you're down. A day at a time, you will be ok, and in time, better than ok. Thank you, it lifts me up a lot yeah I am practicing self care before loyalty for people that were good for me once but not anymore. I will be! I am sure about it.
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