xegon
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Post by xegon on Dec 1, 2022 15:17:44 GMT
Hello all,
QUICK note: I've read over this now and tried to stay on topic as much as I could, but now I realize it might sound offensive/triggering based on what I understand. Please keep in mind that only reason of me typing here is me wanting to understand and better myself to be better support for my partner. It is not supposed to make anyone feel bad. You are all wonderful people. <3
I am trying my best with showing support for my propably DA gf. I've never really had any issues in releationships up until now. I am problem solver in real life and I tend to understand things before resolving them. I have previously been with AP and even tho it was sometimes really demanding I could understand the issues and provide moral support via empathy and communication. It's completely different with DA and last week I was on the edge of breaking things up. I felt really anxious and I thought to myself, since I never felt like this before, if is it worth it. Perhaps I am not as secure as I thought.
I never heard about attachment theory up until this releationship. As I mentioned before I am problem solver so my first instinct was to take responsibility and look for reasons and to fix things - that's how I found out about attachment theory. I am pretty much secure with some traits from avoidant (need for space during stressful work days) and Anxious (seeing mood swings and patterns in daily life)
Long story short - six months in, we are in our early 30s first 4-5 months were absolutely incredible, even tho I am running my own company as is she, we always managed to find time for each other and had lovely time. I always felt she is not used to compliments and signs of respect and affection so I provided that. I've even met her family multiple times and had wonderful time with them aswell. After seeing her family for the first time over the weekend she stated that it was absolutely amazing and she is so glad she found someone she doesn't need to worry about in social situations. Also said she is in love and really happy. Her father is big figure in her life, so when he stated she finally brought someone normal, it made her happy. During our first months she grew closer and closer to me and showed affection and interest. After this amazing weekend she became cold, detached and distant. Obviously I am a man so when I felt this shift I gave her space.
We haven't talked for about a week and then spent whole weekend together which was scheduled some time before. Again it was absolutely amazing time. After that - she became even more distant and haven't heard from her for couple of days again. This was happening for about 3 weeks when I finally asked if there is something wrong. Told me that she feels we are growing colder and more distant but she is still in love and that is ok not to be in contact every day. I agreed as I've been in releationship with AP before so it kind of suits me. The thing is, after this conversation she became cold and distant even while together. We are still making time for each other like once a week right now, but it started to feel like I am there just because I am. First instinct was about my needs - probably selfish, I know. Tried to bring it up last week and she got completely shutdown and mentally drained by that conversation - this is the exact moment when I went to problem solve mode and found about attachment theory. The conversation was led by me in racional way. After reading about this topic I did everything wrong and pretty much triggered her multiple times (Didn't know about it before, so I could not talk to her better)
The thing is she stated that she is willing to work on the relationship and to grow as two individuals. At the same time I don't think she knows that she has a lot of traits of DA (even I am not sure) and after reading about it I don't want to hurt her and I am not sure how to talk to her.
Honestly I am not sure if I want to go through with it as from what I've read it is really challenging and hard at times. If this was any other time and woman I would just remove myself from this relationship. But on the other hand she ticks every other box as a woman for me. I can see future with her and not from feelings POV, but from POV that she is an amazing person with same values and views about life.
BTW - Sex is absolutely amazing and she can communicate her needs and everything. Together time is the same. We even had conversations about future etc. which she started to talk about.
BTW2 - during our second month she had tendency to be jelous over ladies who smiled at me, or talked to me nicely in public. I run a business and I am sales person so I agree I can be sometimes overly nice to strangers. I took time and we had conversation about it for couple of hours so she would honestly believe there is not reason for that. I spent a lot of effort and time explaining to her that I am with her because I honestly like her and want to keep working on us. What I am trying to say is the beggining of our relationship I would never guessed she might have avoidant traits. This is what really confuses me as from what I've read DAs tend avoid those feelings, right?
BTW3 - After reading about this topic all of the disccusions between us over her past relationships started to make sence. She is quickly to cut off people from her life. Her longest releationship was 2 years and very toxic. She doesn't like to talk about difficult topics. Her father as a strong figure in her life always put her second and had no need for showing emotions - she told me that, it's aslo not common for DAs, right?
Want to ask DAs:
Does my gf shows DAs traits?
If yes, what would you need in her situation from me?
Since she went completely full throttle into the relationship and I met her family, is it normal to feel distant after wonderful time like that for you?
How best can I talk about this with her? I want to understand her and provide anything she needs as she is an amazing woman.
I don't mind to give her all the time she needs as I am really busy, however I don't like the idea she might think I am giving up on her. This might be the issue honestly because when she withdrew I somewhat took step back aswell.
Overall I want to hear from all of you guys any ideas how to create the best conditions for her to be happy.
It is also confusing that she was able to talk about pretty much everything with me (had the trust), until the family time.
I understand I can't understand it without more information, but if she is indeed DA I don't want to leave her before giving it a shot. I understood that is what she might be scared of.
If I decide to leave her, what is the best way? Now I’ve read AT I am worried that I am going to hurt her more than necessary. I don’t want her to get the feeling:”ye I knew this gonna happen”
English is like my third language, so if there is anything you don't understand feel free to ask. Thank you guys and wish you all the best! <3
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 15:50:11 GMT
I have evolved a lot from DA, over time with a lot of personal work. I don't know enough about her to give an opinion on her AT style but yes, for me, it is typical to feel withdrawn after a new step in the relationship. It brings up a lot of old messages and fears for me. If my boyfriend took a step back every time I felt it then we wouldn't be together. I have needed consistency so I could let myself ebb and flow without reaction from him (because when that's going on I truly don't have the answers, can't describe it, don't want to talk about it, and no one can help me with it because I can't really articulate it.). The whole thing of co-creating solutions and allowing deep feelings of need is the problem- because my whole foundation was built on NOT being able to rely on someone so having to depend and co-create a life or solve a problem together is not initially a relief.... it's extremely stressful and brings feelings of slippery slope and fears of going the wrong way! This will hurt and I will bleed! I could have made it on my own and now I'm doomed to things beyond my control and outside of my beliefs about what is real and solid and what is not!
DA want connection but don't believe it's a real thing, in a way. They haven't experienced it.
It's like believing in God... either you do or you don't and if you don't then someone who does is going to seem misled, full of fantasy, or privy to information you haven't been able to experi3nce or put stock in. Somehow they can, but you can't, and that's ok. Live and let live, you know? DA's are skeptics and cynical. Sometimes going deeper into a relationship is like an atheist going to church... "this is what believers do but I just can't seem to get in board. What are you guys doing?!"
That's conditioning... and there isn't anything anyone can do to change it, it is a personal journey of experience and faith for the DA to take. It's their journey and they have to want to take it.
These fears and misunderstandings took years to uncover and sort through. It doesn't happen in a single relationship. But if I have advice for a SECURE person in a relationship with a DA it's
1) continue to have needs and talk about them and try to work together to take care of TWO people and not just one because that's healthy for you
2) accept it if this person cannot be healthy for you and move on because enabling avoidance is not helpful for either
3) ride the waves of ebb and flow instead of reacting, see if it resolves on its own because no amount of talking can help, a withdrawn DA just can't, and for me allowing self regulation to take place in the presence of someone who is confident and consistent builds my own hope that relario ship is possible. It allows me to see that someone is there for me when I am lost, without trying to change or understand what I don't understand myself. It builds trust in relationships in general and gives me hope that I can do what I don't yet know how to do.
All that said, it may be terrible advice and it may be best to leave the relationship because it's not what you need to be healthy and balanced. But it takes time to come to that decision and much can be learned by trying and accepting the results even if it's failure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 15:56:02 GMT
IMHO the worst thing to do is follow a DA's lead to co-create distance because that feeds the narrative we have. The other worst thing is to panic and overreact and try to get reassurance. The DA is the one who needs reassurance at that point and not verbal reassurance.. quiet consistency and allowance for moods, low energy, and enigmatic behavior. Do the things you normally do and let a DA show up as they are, if you aren't afraid of it then you can be a person of consistency in their life and will be much appreciated. I grew a lot by not having to actually... it happened naturally by just interrupting the need to withdraw with daily life. No big deals, no big emotions. Just eating an ice cream cone or going to the store or watching TV AS IS and watching how things can be fine even when I am not fine.
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xegon
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Post by xegon on Dec 1, 2022 16:07:23 GMT
I have evolved a lot from DA, over time with a lot of personal work. I don't know enough about her to give an opinion on her AT style but yes, for me, it is typical to feel withdrawn after a new step in the relationship. It brings up a lot of old messages and fears for me. If my boyfriend took a step back every time I felt it then we wouldn't be together. I have needed consistency so I could let myself ebb and flow without reaction from him (because when that's going on I truly don't have the answers, can't describe it, don't want to talk about it, and no one can help me with it because I can't really articulate it.). The whole thing of co-creating solutions and allowing deep feelings of need is the problem- because my whole foundation was built on NOT being able to rely on someone so having to is not a relief it's extremely stressful and brings feelings of slippery slope and fears of going the wrong way! This will hurt and I will bleed! I could have made it on my own and now I'm doomed to things beyond my control and outside of my beliefs about what is real and solid and what is not! These fears took years to uncover and sort through. It doesn't happen in a single relationship. But if I have advice for a SECURE person in a relationship with a DA it's 1) continue to have needs and talk about them and try to work together to take care of TWO people and not just one because that's healthy for you 2) accept it if this person cannot be healthy for you and move on because enabling avoidance is not helpful for either 3) ride the waves of ebb and flow instead of reacting, see if it resolves on its own because no amount of talking can help, a withdrawn DA just can't, and for me allowing self regulation to the place in the presence of someone who is confident and consistent builds my own hope that relario ship is possible and I can see that someone is there for me when I am lost without trying to change or understand what I don't understand myself. It builds trust in relationships in general and gives me hope that I can do what I don't yet know how to do. All that said, it may be terrible advice and it may be best to leave the relationship because it's not what you need to be healthy and balanced. But it takes time to come to that decision and much can be learned by trying and accepting the results even if it's failure. Thank you for your reply. Ye, the scary part for me is that I am feeling like it drains me more than it should. Even tho I am a man I have always been praised by my ability to communicate. In this releationship I don’t feel like I can and I am sensing that I am thinking if I can even bring things up. She even said she doesn’t like people who can’t deal with their own mental health problems by themselves. So I don’t feel comfortable to talk about it as I still have pride. I think I am going to provide best support as I can for couple of weeks and then just call it if it doesn’t change back to normal. I would never got into the releationship so fast. But now it’s like she is different person and I haven’t signed up for that. No drama I just feel this would put me in a terrible place long term and I can’t afford it with rest of my life. Right now it feels like a great opportunity for me to understand new topic better and feel where my turning point is. Either way it’s good learning experience. |
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xegon
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Post by xegon on Dec 1, 2022 16:14:41 GMT
IMHO the worst thing to do is follow a DA's lead to co-create distance because that feeds the narrative we have. The other worst thing is to panic and overreact and try to get reassurance. The DA is the one who needs reassurance at that point and not verbal reassurance.. quiet consistency and allowance for moods, low energy, and enigmatic behavior. Do the things you normally do and let a DA show up as they are, if you aren't afraid of it then you can be a person of consistency in their life and will be much appreciated. I grew a lot by not having to actually... it happened naturally by just interrupting the need to withdraw with daily life. No big deals, no big emotions. Just eating an ice cream cone or going to the store or watching TV AS IS and watching how things can be fine even when I am not fine. It’s interesting because I never thought about it this way. I don’t need reassurance really, but when it started to feel like I am single outside of releationship after the big turning point I just withdrew and focus my time to other things. My ego here is problem I think :”it’s one way? Ok, let me focus on other parts of my life. I haven’t done anything wrong” I have always been emphatetic but it’s hard to read her. Then I also read, that DAs tend to assume neediness etc. So it’s really confusing 🙈 I never met woman like this and it’s so appealing. It has always been other way around for me. So you would recommend just to be the same, contact her? I am not sure how good it would feel, for me it’s much better to say:”look, I like you, when you feel like it, let me know” - is it wrong? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 16:14:55 GMT
And NO! Don't try to articulate it for the DA... don't force a convo!!! That feels so gross and controlling. Just eat a hamburger and relax and be your happy regulated self because a calm, consistent, loving person who can just stay normal is the best thing that can happen to a DA. If you can't do that then this relationship is not supportive enough of you and you have to learn to let go and take good care of yourself. My opinion.
My boyfriend was able to do this generally and I don't know how but I suspect it's because he has adhd traits and operates on his own enthusiasm for life and allowed me to be a passenger instead of asking me to drive if you know what I mean.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 16:17:01 GMT
I have evolved a lot from DA, over time with a lot of personal work. I don't know enough about her to give an opinion on her AT style but yes, for me, it is typical to feel withdrawn after a new step in the relationship. It brings up a lot of old messages and fears for me. If my boyfriend took a step back every time I felt it then we wouldn't be together. I have needed consistency so I could let myself ebb and flow without reaction from him (because when that's going on I truly don't have the answers, can't describe it, don't want to talk about it, and no one can help me with it because I can't really articulate it.). The whole thing of co-creating solutions and allowing deep feelings of need is the problem- because my whole foundation was built on NOT being able to rely on someone so having to is not a relief it's extremely stressful and brings feelings of slippery slope and fears of going the wrong way! This will hurt and I will bleed! I could have made it on my own and now I'm doomed to things beyond my control and outside of my beliefs about what is real and solid and what is not! These fears took years to uncover and sort through. It doesn't happen in a single relationship. But if I have advice for a SECURE person in a relationship with a DA it's 1) continue to have needs and talk about them and try to work together to take care of TWO people and not just one because that's healthy for you 2) accept it if this person cannot be healthy for you and move on because enabling avoidance is not helpful for either 3) ride the waves of ebb and flow instead of reacting, see if it resolves on its own because no amount of talking can help, a withdrawn DA just can't, and for me allowing self regulation to the place in the presence of someone who is confident and consistent builds my own hope that relario ship is possible and I can see that someone is there for me when I am lost without trying to change or understand what I don't understand myself. It builds trust in relationships in general and gives me hope that I can do what I don't yet know how to do. All that said, it may be terrible advice and it may be best to leave the relationship because it's not what you need to be healthy and balanced. But it takes time to come to that decision and much can be learned by trying and accepting the results even if it's failure. Thank you for your reply. Ye, the scary part for me is that I am feeling like it drains me more than it should. Even tho I am a man I have always been praised by my ability to communicate. In this releationship I don’t feel like I can and I am sensing that I am thinking if I can even bring things up. She even said she doesn’t like people who can’t deal with their own mental health problems by themselves. So I don’t feel comfortable to talk about it as I still have pride. I think I am going to provide best support as I can for couple of weeks and then just call it if it doesn’t change back to normal. I would never got into the releationship so fast. But now it’s like she is different person and I haven’t signed up for that. No drama I just feel this would put me in a terrible place long term and I can’t afford it with rest of my life. Right now it feels like a great opportunity for me to understand new topic better and feel where my turning point is. Either way it’s good learning experience. This is a great response to the situation and it sounds like you are not abandoning yourself which is awesome and important. I agree that if you don't feel fed in the relationship, end it and continue to take good care of yourself. |
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xegon
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Post by xegon on Dec 1, 2022 16:22:31 GMT
And NO! Don't try to articulate it for the DA... don't force a convo!!! That feels so gross and controlling. Just eat a hamburger and relax and be your happy regulated self because a calm, consistent, loving person who can just stay normal is the best thing that can happen to a DA. If you can't do that then this relationship is not supportive enough of you and you have to learn to let go and take good care of yourself. My opinion. My boyfriend was able to do this generally and I don't know how but I suspect it's because he has adhd traits and operates on his own enthusiasm for life and allowed me to be a passenger instead of asking me to drive if you know what I mean. Wow thanks for this. It’s completely opposite for me haha. When someone needs something I assume they ask. When I need something I ask, because I don’t like it when people in work assume that you can read their mind. I will just let it be for a moment and enjoy our time together. I don’t need to control her or anything. I like her the way she is. I just don’t understand the confusions, when in my mind nothing happend. This is so new for me it’s hard to grasp. Don’t want to come across to you as insensitive, it’s just really new to me. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 16:23:50 GMT
IMHO the worst thing to do is follow a DA's lead to co-create distance because that feeds the narrative we have. The other worst thing is to panic and overreact and try to get reassurance. The DA is the one who needs reassurance at that point and not verbal reassurance.. quiet consistency and allowance for moods, low energy, and enigmatic behavior. Do the things you normally do and let a DA show up as they are, if you aren't afraid of it then you can be a person of consistency in their life and will be much appreciated. I grew a lot by not having to actually... it happened naturally by just interrupting the need to withdraw with daily life. No big deals, no big emotions. Just eating an ice cream cone or going to the store or watching TV AS IS and watching how things can be fine even when I am not fine. It’s interesting because I never thought about it this way. I don’t need reassurance really, but when it started to feel like I am single outside of releationship after the big turning point I just withdrew and focus my time to other things. My ego here is problem I think :”it’s one way? Ok, let me focus on other parts of my life. I haven’t done anything wrong” I have always been emphatetic but it’s hard to read her. Then I also read, that DAs tend to assume neediness etc. So it’s really confusing 🙈 I never met woman like this and it’s so appealing. It has always been other way around for me. So you would recommend just to be the same, contact her? I am not sure how good it would feel, for me it’s much better to say:”look, I like you, when you feel like it, let me know” - is it wrong? I mean, I don't want to give advice thst would make it seem like you need to manipulate the situation or anything... but seriously I don't think my bf always noticed when I felt shut down because he really takes life by the horns. So I could feel withdrawn and he would "make" me go to the park and throw a Frisbee or something stupid and meaningless and I experienced a joint activity when I wasn't feeling great and it made me feel better. Like slipping couplehood into the equation in a very mundane way. I learned from it. It made me feel belonging when I was struggling to trust belonging. Being withdrawn for me is about doubting that I really can have a family that loves me no matter what. Family can throw Frisbee and they just do normal things and that is a good life, belonging nd being a part of something without having to prove anything is a huge healing experience for me. It means not being invisible and also not being blamed. It helps me take care of myself while someone else is also taking care of me by just treating me like I am a part of their moment and they love me. I don't know how else to explain it but it's a small miracle. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 16:26:04 GMT
And NO! Don't try to articulate it for the DA... don't force a convo!!! That feels so gross and controlling. Just eat a hamburger and relax and be your happy regulated self because a calm, consistent, loving person who can just stay normal is the best thing that can happen to a DA. If you can't do that then this relationship is not supportive enough of you and you have to learn to let go and take good care of yourself. My opinion. My boyfriend was able to do this generally and I don't know how but I suspect it's because he has adhd traits and operates on his own enthusiasm for life and allowed me to be a passenger instead of asking me to drive if you know what I mean. Wow thanks for this. It’s completely opposite for me haha. When someone needs something I assume they ask. When I need something I ask, because I don’t like it when people in work assume that you can read their mind. I will just let it be for a moment and enjoy our time together. I don’t need to control her or anything. I like her the way she is. I just don’t understand the confusions, when in my mind nothing happend. This is so new for me it’s hard to grasp. Don’t want to come across to you as insensitive, it’s just really new to me. You don't seem insensitive I think you seem very kind and reasonable. A DA doesn't know they need something and asking for it is a foreign concept because the whole cause of DA is neglect and being overpowered by someone else's agenda. There was no attention to DA's needs, so there is an unspeakable void when it comes to needing or asking. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 16:29:06 GMT
Yes contact her, do a normal thing. That is the best thing ever. Just be normal when she is not. That is an example of relationship that a DA needs to see. Consistent available behavior. And if that doesn't work for you and make you happy then it's not the relationship that can nourish you.
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xegon
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Post by xegon on Dec 1, 2022 16:32:46 GMT
Yes contact her, do a normal thing. That is the best thing ever. Just be normal when she is not. That is an example of relationship that a DA needs to see. Consistent available behavior. And if that doesn't work for you and make you happy then it's not the relationship that can nourish you. Ok, thank yo very much again. First time posting on the internet for me. Really apprisiated. One more thing. If I decide to break up after some time, how to best do it not to hurt her? Because truth in this case wouldn’t do anything good I suppose. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 17:27:02 GMT
Yes contact her, do a normal thing. That is the best thing ever. Just be normal when she is not. That is an example of relationship that a DA needs to see. Consistent available behavior. And if that doesn't work for you and make you happy then it's not the relationship that can nourish you. Ok, thank yo very much again. First time posting on the internet for me. Really apprisiated. One more thing. If I decide to break up after some time, how to best do it not to hurt her? Because truth in this case wouldn’t do anything good I suppose. I advocate for authenticity and the truth is absolutely appropriate. Just say what you mean and let the results be what they may be. She deserves the truth and you deserve to tell it. No one is trying to harm anyone and gentle honesty is always the best policy. I'd express it to her the same way you did here and let her decide her own path forward. |
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Post by cherrycola on Dec 1, 2022 18:52:29 GMT
Ok, thank yo very much again. First time posting on the internet for me. Really apprisiated. One more thing. If I decide to break up after some time, how to best do it not to hurt her? Because truth in this case wouldn’t do anything good I suppose. I advocate for authenticity and the truth is absolutely appropriate. Just say what you mean and let the results be what they may be. She deserves the truth and you deserve to tell it. No one is trying to harm anyone and gentle honesty is always the best policy. I'd express it to her the same way you did here and let her decide her own path forward. The only thing I would suggest is avoid labels. Don't mention you think she has a DA attachment style. You could mention attachment theory if you really wanted to but let her come to her own conclusions. I would focus on the behaviors that are causing the problems for you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 19:09:14 GMT
I advocate for authenticity and the truth is absolutely appropriate. Just say what you mean and let the results be what they may be. She deserves the truth and you deserve to tell it. No one is trying to harm anyone and gentle honesty is always the best policy. I'd express it to her the same way you did here and let her decide her own path forward. The only thing I would suggest is avoid labels. Don't mention you think she has a DA attachment style. You could mention attachment theory if you really wanted to but let her come to her own conclusions. I would focus on the behaviors that are causing the problems for you. Where I disagree is that OP actually views her as a potential DA and by saying so makes s clear his PERCEPTION . The label is part of that. It's up to her to determine what relevance that has for her life but I myself prefer blunt and clear statements and not beating around the bush or padding things. I also don't see the attachment types as pathologies, so am not squeamish about labels. It's an individual approach but I don't think it's unkind to say that someone seems like a DA, or anything else. No one I have ever approached that way seemed put off or hurt they were curious. But that's the people I know, it's not necessarily universal.... |
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