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Post by tnr9 on Dec 28, 2017 22:05:45 GMT
Mary, Your post made me smile! Yes, I believe my ex feels the same. I can almost hear his annoyance so I've learned not to take it personally and also just to give him the space he needs. He also refused to give me a christmas card last year (even though i love getting cards even more than gifts) because he said "we see each other all the time, why do I need to give you a card?" He did send me a xmas card this year because we are not together as a couple and we did not get each other gifts, but the card was oddly formal yet he called me a "gift to this world"- which while kind, is a bit odd. However, that has always been his style, very formal with some light joking. Wow Kristyrose....my ex (towards the end of the relationship said) we are spending more time together so we don't need to hold hands as much (physical touch is my love language so I will admit that that stung quite a bit). I see that as a compromise, he would hold my foot...but it just felt like a distancing strategy at the time. He also said we did not need to say "I love you" as often...but again...I am super verbal and he isn't. He preferred to watch shows on Netflix together. Also....when he broke up with me...the next day he sent me a text that he was happy I was still talking to him, that he had been praying for me and that my best was yet to come. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 28, 2017 22:28:18 GMT
I have talked to her in the past about this issue, and I simply get an "I was busy" answer. Just irritates me that she can go like random stuff on Facebook or wish an acquaintance Happy birthday, but cant respond to a loving text in the morning. It just seems very rude to me, and makes me feel like I am not a priority. To your point though, it could be an independence thing - she is very big on being independent. It's very much a different perspective. I wouldn't necessarily see it as you are not a priority, although I can see how you are seeing it that way. Sometimes, it's a matter of what takes the least "energy". Doing random stuff on FB or communicating with acquaintances is very easy and low energy. Communicating with my bf takes a certain amount of emotional energy and preparation (I know, sounds wierd). I may put it off until I feel prepared. I don't mean asking her why she didn't text you, but really talk about what makes each of you happy. Mary, can you try to explain the "emotional energy and preparation?" I think if I understood more, it would certainly help me not get so pissy about these trivial things. I know its trivial...yet I it still sets me off. I know when she gets out of work today she will call me and we will be on the phone for hours, yet my head just screws with me. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 3:17:42 GMT
Yes, I have never tried to explain it before, so hopefully it makes sense. All forms of reaching out is difficult for me and if the person really matters to me, it's even more difficult. A short text for some people is really easy and probably doesn't take much thought or effort. For me, it can take a considerable amount of thought and effort. I think of it in terms of emotional energy. Stress and other factors can drain it as well as talking to people I care about. Once it's drained, It takes even more effort to get it done. Talking to people I don't care that much about is easy and doesn't drain the energy the same. Sometimes I think it's like preparing for an emotional backlash, but I don't really know. I know it's probably the fear talking to me somehow, but it's very subconscious. I just know it's not that I don't prioritize the person. It happens the most with people I do prioritize.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 29, 2017 3:32:50 GMT
Yes, I have never tried to explain it before, so hopefully it makes sense. All forms of reaching out is difficult for me and if the person really matters to me, it's even more difficult. A short text for some people is really easy and probably doesn't take much thought or effort. For me, it can take a considerable amount of thought and effort. I think of it in terms of emotional energy. Stress and other factors can drain it as well as talking to people I care about. Once it's drained, It takes even more effort to get it done. Talking to people I don't care that much about is easy and doesn't drain the energy the same. Sometimes I think it's like preparing for an emotional backlash, but I don't really know. I know it's probably the fear talking to me somehow, but it's very subconscious. I just know it's not that I don't prioritize the person. It happens the most with people I do prioritize. Mary...I have seen it referred to as an emotional battery in other posts. My mom used to tell me she had a "meter" just for me and when it was used up she needed alone/peace/quiet time. As a little girl...that felt like I was responsible for whether she felt completely drained or had energy. When she would state her need for alone time was tied to her meter being drained, it made me feel like time apart was more of a punishment for draining her. It did not help that her tone was very matter of fact, which I took to be her not being happy to be with me. It s why silence and time apart still trigger me. My initial thought is that I am being punished for draining the other person. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 3:44:47 GMT
Yes, I have never tried to explain it before, so hopefully it makes sense. All forms of reaching out is difficult for me and if the person really matters to me, it's even more difficult. A short text for some people is really easy and probably doesn't take much thought or effort. For me, it can take a considerable amount of thought and effort. I think of it in terms of emotional energy. Stress and other factors can drain it as well as talking to people I care about. Once it's drained, It takes even more effort to get it done. Talking to people I don't care that much about is easy and doesn't drain the energy the same. Sometimes I think it's like preparing for an emotional backlash, but I don't really know. I know it's probably the fear talking to me somehow, but it's very subconscious. I just know it's not that I don't prioritize the person. It happens the most with people I do prioritize. Mary...I have seen it referred to as an emotional battery in other posts. My mom used to tell me she had a "meter" just for me and when it was used up she needed alone/peace/quiet time. As a little girl...that felt like I was responsible for whether she felt completely drained or had energy. When she would state her need for alone time was tied to her meter being drained, it made me feel like time apart was more of a punishment for draining her. It did not help that her tone was very matter of fact, which I took to be her not being happy to be with me. It s why silence and time apart still trigger me. My initial thought is that I am being punished for draining the other person. I'm very sorry you had that experience. It's not something I tell people about or that they have drained me. It's just something internal that I am aware of. I can see how that can be damaging to hear as a child. For me, it's not that I am unhappy with the person or that it's a punishment, it's my own shortcoming. I would rather take the time and space rather than "blowing up" at the person. It's more a coping mechanism meant to spare the other person although I can see how it can be taken a different way. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 29, 2017 13:15:20 GMT
Yes, I have never tried to explain it before, so hopefully it makes sense. All forms of reaching out is difficult for me and if the person really matters to me, it's even more difficult. A short text for some people is really easy and probably doesn't take much thought or effort. For me, it can take a considerable amount of thought and effort. I think of it in terms of emotional energy. Stress and other factors can drain it as well as talking to people I care about. Once it's drained, It takes even more effort to get it done. Talking to people I don't care that much about is easy and doesn't drain the energy the same. Sometimes I think it's like preparing for an emotional backlash, but I don't really know. I know it's probably the fear talking to me somehow, but it's very subconscious. I just know it's not that I don't prioritize the person. It happens the most with people I do prioritize. Very interesting. I had a relationship with a woman last year that was very similar to you in so many regards. She was a DA and it was extremely frustrating. She was completely emotionally unavailable, and sadly it just never worked even though we were a perfect couple. I hung on and chased her for about a year before I had to give up. She went pretty much NC with me and I used that as my opportunity to pull away. Its such a shame as we spent every weekend together doing the things we both loved. We had a great routine and we were both happy with it, except I wanted a relationship and she wasnt ready. In her words she was very badly broken and didn't think she was ever going to be able to fix it. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 1, 2018 5:05:49 GMT
So I have noticed another aspect of myself which I do not think is tied to AP but may be due to having siblings and a "scarcity of love to go around". There are times when I have felt quite possessive of my partner (now ex) and it still,happens more frequently then I would like to admit. It is very much tied to the jealousy I discussed earlier...the idea that if he has liked someone else's picture of status on FB, he must prefer that person to me. There is a freedom to let him be who he is and not have that impact my view of myself that is lacking. It is as if a boundary should have formed there....but there is no boundary at all...which just adds undo anxiety since I have really no control over my ex ( and never did).
Has anyone else experienced this? If so, we're you able to create a boundary?
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Post by stavs on Jan 1, 2018 14:32:31 GMT
So I have noticed another aspect of myself which I do not think is tied to AP but may be due to having siblings and a "scarcity of love to go around". There are times when I have felt quite possessive of my partner (now ex) and it still,happens more frequently then I would like to admit. It is very much tied to the jealousy I discussed earlier...the idea that if he has liked someone else's picture of status on FB, he must prefer that person to me. There is a freedom to let him be who he is and not have that impact my view of myself that is lacking. It is as if a boundary should have formed there....but there is no boundary at all...which just adds undo anxiety since I have really no control over my ex ( and never did). Has anyone else experienced this? If so, we're you able to create a boundary? I feel the same way. If my gf likes another guys picture, I automatically start thinking the worst about myself. Its a bit of a crushing blow. I am trying to create a boundary by just trying to be less insecure. I have started posting notes aroudn the house to remind me that I am desirable and that I have so much to offer. This is kind of stupid, but I also have an album on my phone with pictures of women that have expressed serious interest in me. Surprisingly there are quite a few and it honestly makes me feel good. When I feel like I am not handsome enough, or good enough, I look at the album to remind me that there is nothign wrong with my appearance or who I am. It bolsters my ego and its what I need. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 28, 2018 18:25:15 GMT
Checking....I used to check Facebook all the time. If my guy did not like my post I would wonder why. I would look at all his friends pages. I would check the last time he was on IM (especially if I had not heard from him in a while). For a long time I honestly thought where I showed up on his friends list was an indication of how important I was to him...but then I compared a friend's list of friends how I would see it versus how it came up for her and realized that they were different. Text response time...the moment I sent a text, the clock would start....and after about an hour of not hearing from him.the panic would set in. Did I reach out at a bad time? Was he mad at me? Was he with another girl? Completely random but completely unfounded thought would go through my head. It took so much strength to not send a follow up text...to sit with all that anxiety. Sometimes it would be days before he would send a text.....all the while, my fears would continue to escalate. Once escalated...no one could talk me back to being calm...only hearing from him would make things ok again. I do these same exact things and I am trying so hard to overcome them. I often wonder why she likes other guys pictures and not mine. Its very frustrating, but try to keep it at bay. I know I shouldnt worry, but I do. Its my nature. Any tips? Oooh... the social media thing. I’ll spend way too long on Instagram looking at the things he’s liked.. noticing how many female profiles he likes, how many new followers he has. It borders on obsession. I think it’s making me feel better at the time, but ultimately it makes me feel worse. Jeez, this AP thing (and fear of abandonment)... it’s such a hinderance. Speaking of... I’ve been online here way too long this morning and I’m neglecting other things so I better spirit away. Good luck to all the other APs trying to find Secure in themselves. It’s an arduous journey. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 28, 2018 18:33:02 GMT
I don't speak for all avoidants, but I just want to say I don't understand all of this "checking" on other types of media. If it's just a chitchat text, I feel it doesn't require an immediate response otherwise it would be a day full of constant texting and getting nothing else done. I also don't think that the quicker someone responds, the more they love you. I think the not jumping to conclusions advice is spot on. Hey Mary....yeh....completely understand why it would not make sense to you....your attachment system doesn't get activated in the same way. It isn't so much the content of the message...although that does play a small role...when an AP reaches out to our partner....our attachment is activated if we don't hear back. A communication of any kind is in essence a "bid" for reassurance/everything is ok. If we don't get that within a certain amount of time...our attachment system goes into high alert telling us that something is wrong. A lot of this occurs subconciously. Because an APs anxiety is now activated...we will experience greater degrees of discomfort that is only relieved once we hear from our partner. This is why the silence and space that a DA and FA need are so triggering to an AP. Silence=something is bad, I did or said something wrong, she/he is mad at me....it all goes back to our broken attachment with our parents. Also...we are very attuned to communications and as such...we tend to read into things from our own way of relating. What you have described makes sense...but is also really foreign to me. I can do work and still respond in a timely fashion to my partner. I see it as not being an either/or. It also doesn't have to be an all day thing. Usually 1 well timed communication is all I need. Oh wow, Mary... you hit the nail on the head here. My DA never understood that all I needed was a smiley emoji. Or a wave. Just the teensiest little acknowledgment. And I never understood what he was saying when he was saying he was “too busy” to give me that. He would tell me all the time “unless I specifically say to you that there’s a problem- and I will tell you- then assume there isn’t.” But if days pass and I hear nothing from someone... my alarm system is on high alert. I assume you hate me and just haven’t had the nerve to tell me. I would always call it “dog-farming”... like when your dad tells you they’re taking the dog to the farm but they’re really putting him down. I would ask “are you getting ready to dog-farm me... because you should just tell me I’m being put down and not try to dog-farm me.” Writing it out... it seems insane. He must have been constantly exasperated with me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 23:23:23 GMT
Hey Mary....yeh....completely understand why it would not make sense to you....your attachment system doesn't get activated in the same way. It isn't so much the content of the message...although that does play a small role...when an AP reaches out to our partner....our attachment is activated if we don't hear back. A communication of any kind is in essence a "bid" for reassurance/everything is ok. If we don't get that within a certain amount of time...our attachment system goes into high alert telling us that something is wrong. A lot of this occurs subconciously. Because an APs anxiety is now activated...we will experience greater degrees of discomfort that is only relieved once we hear from our partner. This is why the silence and space that a DA and FA need are so triggering to an AP. Silence=something is bad, I did or said something wrong, she/he is mad at me....it all goes back to our broken attachment with our parents. Also...we are very attuned to communications and as such...we tend to read into things from our own way of relating. What you have described makes sense...but is also really foreign to me. I can do work and still respond in a timely fashion to my partner. I see it as not being an either/or. It also doesn't have to be an all day thing. Usually 1 well timed communication is all I need. Oh wow, Mary... you hit the nail on the head here. My DA never understood that all I needed was a smiley emoji. Or a wave. Just the teensiest little acknowledgment. And I never understood what he was saying when he was saying he was “too busy” to give me that. He would tell me all the time “unless I specifically say to you that there’s a problem- and I will tell you- then assume there isn’t.” But if days pass and I hear nothing from someone... my alarm system is on high alert. I assume you hate me and just haven’t had the nerve to tell me. I would always call it “dog-farming”... like when your dad tells you they’re taking the dog to the farm but they’re really putting him down. I would ask “are you getting ready to dog-farm me... because you should just tell me I’m being put down and not try to dog-farm me.” Writing it out... it seems insane. He must have been constantly exasperated with me. Ok, I have to say I love this dog farm analogy. I do understand what you are saying, but I don't experience the same feeling. Those words I highlighted, I have definitely said them before too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 1:44:40 GMT
Um, I just want to check in if days of non-response or no-contact is considered normal in a romantic relationship? This is somewhat a blithe question because it has never ever ever crossed my mind that days of non-response can actually happen in a romantic relationship! If I asked my partner how is he, and he didn't respond within the same day, I would immediately think he's dead in a ditch, or dog farming me (love it), or simply ghosting me. that's of course knowing that my partner always has his phones with him and uses them alot for work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 1:57:15 GMT
Oh wow, Mary... you hit the nail on the head here. My DA never understood that all I needed was a smiley emoji. Or a wave. Just the teensiest little acknowledgment. And I never understood what he was saying when he was saying he was “too busy” to give me that. He would tell me all the time “unless I specifically say to you that there’s a problem- and I will tell you- then assume there isn’t.” But if days pass and I hear nothing from someone... my alarm system is on high alert. I assume you hate me and just haven’t had the nerve to tell me. I would always call it “dog-farming”... like when your dad tells you they’re taking the dog to the farm but they’re really putting him down. I would ask “are you getting ready to dog-farm me... because you should just tell me I’m being put down and not try to dog-farm me.” Writing it out... it seems insane. He must have been constantly exasperated with me. Ok, I have to say I love this dog farm analogy. I do understand what you are saying, but I don't experience the same feeling. Those words I highlighted, I have definitely said them before too. Interesting. In the earlier days of the relationship, I used to check in with my partner if "We are good". It's just a way of checking in if there're problems that he's not explicitly saying. Somewhere along the line, I stopped asking because I had felt safe and secure in the relationship and thought that it was stable, and an open and honest relationship in which we talked to each other. The day before he "disappeared" on me, he pointed out that I have not asked that for a while, and he was wondering exactly the same. I was like  ??. Mary, he used to say the same, but apparently, avoidants dislike conflict and confrontations. He has said before that if he did not like what someone did, he would not verbally explicitly say it, but indicate in all sorts of behavior hoping that the other party will get the hint. If he/she didn't, then it's their fault for being insensitive and not picking up his cues, or picked up on his cues and not act on it. So, he would say one thing (just tell me when you're not happy because I'm bad at picking up cues) but act in a different way for himself (you should be picking up cues from people that they are unhappy). It just got to a point where I don't really believe what is said and not said, because clearly, I can't trust that he would simply just tell me what's going on. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 29, 2018 1:59:42 GMT
Um, I just want to check in if days of non-response or no-contact is considered normal in a romantic relationship? This is somewhat a blithe question because it has never ever ever crossed my mind that days of non-response can actually happen in a romantic relationship! If I asked my partner how is he, and he didn't respond within the same day, I would immediately think he's dead in a ditch, or dog farming me (love it), or simply ghosting me. that's of course knowing that my partner always has his phones with him and uses them alot for work. I don’t think it’s normal, per se, but for an avoidant person... and definitely for MY DA, it is. He actually got annoyed with me and said “if I go a few days without communicating you freak out.” Right... well, yeah. We don’t live together so I like daily texts. For him (and I’m gathering a lot of DAs who use their independence as THEIR coping mechanism when their anxiety runs high, this is normal and very okay. This is why the push/pull dance is DA/AP is so hard. We are both always triggering each other’s stress response. I like connection, he likes space. It’s a very exhausting relationship. But... when we are “in the groove”, it’s very rewarding. We’re learning from one another. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 29, 2018 2:05:15 GMT
Anxious- YES. The picking up cues thing is big. And the avoiding conflict. I dislike ambiguity very much. It feels like purgatory for me. So I would always tell him “please tell me if this is too much for you, I know I’m a lot.” Now, he TOLD me “I’ll tell you if there’s a problem” but what he actually did was just distance himself more without ever actually telling me. When I finally asked after there was CLEARLY a problem, he said “I thought you would pick up on the fact that I was busy and not responding as much.” But all along he tells me “just be yourself, I’ll tell you if it’s too much.” He also idealizes a very specific past relationship or two, not understanding they were so short, they never really had the chance to disagree or have problems. Aye-yi-yi
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