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Post by dlans1 on Jan 21, 2023 20:35:42 GMT
Hello,
I have worked with a coach and have done a lot of self-reflection and healing to make my anxious leaning now towards secure attachment. Recently, I started dating someone with a FA. We are currently at a stage where she has pushed me away but still maintains contact and engages in conversations through text.
Understanding her attachment style through her disclosures about her parents and childhood, and with the help of my relationship coach, I am able to understand her behavior better.
When she started ignoring me in person, (since we both volunteer in an animal shelter), I felt okay, understanding that she needs space. I was proud of myself for not getting triggered and remaining positive and polite. However, during my weekly coaching session, my coach suggested that I leave her as a friend and move on because she has “deep deep trauma”.
I don't want to leave her. I don't want to be another link in her self-sabotaging behavior. I want her to be loved and cared for as she is, without judgement or cruelty. She does not deserve to be in such a state due to neglect from her parents. I enjoy talking to her and we share common interests, hobbies, and sense of humor.
My coach has informed me that she is unable to have a healthy relationship without therapy, due to the trauma she has experienced. I completely understand this perspective. But I really wiling to try something. Quitting is not my style at all
My primary strategy would be building enough trust, being open and honest with her. The biggest part of any healing work is being aware and admitting there is a problem. So, my questions are: 1. How do you make FA aware of your attachment style and the impact it has on your relationships? 2. How can I gently encourage her to read and seek help without pushing? 3. Can suggesting books or online resources be a way to help her become more aware of her state of mind? 4. In your journey, if you are a FA, did having a stable, non-reactive person as a friend or even partner, help in your healing process? 5. Because she has no support from anyone, how I can be a source of support and motivation for her if she wishes to do the work?
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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 21:15:36 GMT
I'm going to flip the question. What made you seek out help for your own insecure attachment style? Was it self-motivated? Was it something another person told you to do? Would you have been receptive if they had, or resentful that they think they know what's best for you better than you? Especially if it's someone you sometimes need space from?
You can't control someone else's process around trauma and attachment style. The only time I've seen someone make any leeway in sharing information is if the person came to them 100% on their own to ask for help... and even then it still depends on if that person is ready to listen or change.
You are not contributing to someone's long history of trauma by walking away from a friendship or relationship that isn't working, and isn't working in no small part because they have trust issues and are pushing you away. You are actually demonstrating healthy boundaries by not enabling them to treat you poorly (silent treatment counts as poor treatment). The idea of being a savior and having a special relationship is an AP fantasy that does not respect who the other person is or where they are at, because it projects what you think they need onto them instead of allowing them to have the autonomy to be who they are. That turns into codependence. Your coach is right that this person needs serious professional help, not someone who means well but is working through their own issues to "teach" them how to accept love.
The only thing you can possibly say is, "have you ever heard of attachment theory? I learned about my own attachment style and it's really helped me in my own life. Everyone should look it up and learn about it sometime." And leave it at that. But I strongly agree with your coach's advice. It isn't giving up to recognize incompatibility, it is healthy to let go, with love, of friendships that are unbalanced and don't work smoothly. She is not your project to work on, focus on yourself instead.
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Post by dlans1 on Jan 21, 2023 22:23:09 GMT
“What made you seek out help for your own insecure attachment style?”
It was partly my own initiative, as I was dealing with a recent breakup and wanted to understand why I lose control with my anxiousness in relationships and cause partners to leave me. I started coaching. Therefore, my coach encouraged me to further my studies in this area. ————————— “You are not contributing to someone's long history of trauma by walking away from a friendship or relationship that isn't working, and isn't working in no small part because they have trust issues and are pushing you away. ”
That’s the saddest thing to read. Like literally the person is telling you: people leave me and people don’t like to communicate me, I’m worthless. And you are trying to show empathy, but the second thing she does she pushes you away. She clearly doesn’t understand what she’s doing and how she’s self-sabotaging herself, making her feel worse in the long run. And you can’t help her at all. It’s so unfair. And at the end you just can’t forget all the good things she have done to you, like the small gestures of care and openness, which I believe was super tough to do for her. ————————— “The idea of being a savior and having a special relationship is an AP fantasy”
I'm not certain if I had considered a "special relationship" with her. I was well aware of potential issues in the long term, and was content with how things were going. I had no strong reaction to her "silent treatment," if that's what you'd call it. In fact, she's not completely silent, as we still have engaging text conversations and she even displayed empathy when I shared my own problems. So she’s more like very very mixed and confusing.
I am not focused on trying to "save" her, but rather trying to assess her ability to be self-aware.
When it comes to my needs in a relationship with her, I am not entirely sure what I am looking for. I feel comfortable around her as we have a shared language and understanding, similar senses of humor, and common interests and struggles. It feels natural and easy to have conversations with her, seamlessly moving from one topic to the next without any awkward silences. I have thought to myself, "I feel good around her, I don't need anything more from her. If she doesn't want intimacy, that's okay, as long as we can continue talking, it's so enjoyable." I realize it may be foolish of me, but ending everything feels like a loss to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2023 6:38:38 GMT
It's understandable that you have compassion for her and want to help. I agree with alexandra that the only thing appropriate to do is mention it, and then you ought to relinquish any control or agenda for her healing process, it's not appropriate to do anything to try to influence or steer that though you may be coming from a good place. If you don't want to leave her then that's your prerogative. Do be mindful of any boundaries she's set. If you are acting out your AP style here it will take you down that road and leave you frustrated in due time, there is no rush to get to the bottom of your own insecure relationship style, it will be there until you fully resolve it. In the meantime, there's a saying... when the student is ready, the teacher appears. I always took that to mean that what you have in your life is there for a reason... to teach you something about yourself really. So maybe you will come to see that she's not here for you to help, she's here to challenge the parts of yourself that are the fixer, healer, helper parts of you which are insecure and come from a well meaning but untimately dysfunctional place. For more information on the fixer, healer, helper mentality, search those terms on the site Baggage Reclaim. You may identify with what is revealed there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2023 15:14:39 GMT
Something that codependent or fixer/healer types don't realize is that if someone is backing away from you, you are actually triggering their trauma somehow. You are a living embodiment of the reasons they don't feel safe, somehow you represent that. So if they feel the need to flee, and you follow, well, that doesn't help them it triggers them.
Then if you back off and they approach, you may feel you've succeeded but you will learn quickly enough you've only become part of the back and forth of insecure attachment. Your own anxiety will be triggered and then you will be come a nightmare for this person just as they become a nightmare for you.
People are not quite like abused animals, who can be nursed within a one sided relationship into emotional health and safety. Human relationships are not like that, because inherently both partners have needs, extending beyond caretaking. The healer fantasy is a fantasy that feels warm and urgent and ends in pain for both.
She has her own journey in this life to (hopefully) transcend her suffering, as we all do. She will achieve whatever level of healing she can by undertaking the same sorts of healing journeys everyone else does. That's her path and it holds meanings for her beyond anything you can imagine or understand. Be careful not to project your own wounds.
I've not seen a single instance of a deeply traumatized person making a transformation because their dysfunctional coping mechanisms are exposed or conversely, enabled by an insecure but tireless codependent partner. What I have seen is traumatized people finding healing and healthier functioning through their own initiative to introspect and sort through their personal history that gave rise to their relational style. Many a partner has come here asking your questions, and of there is any positive report I've not seen it.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2023 0:39:47 GMT
That’s the saddest thing to read. Like literally the person is telling you: people leave me and people don’t like to communicate me, I’m worthless. And you are trying to show empathy, but the second thing she does she pushes you away. She clearly doesn’t understand what she’s doing and how she’s self-sabotaging herself, making her feel worse in the long run. And you can’t help her at all. It’s so unfair. It isn't sad, though, it's empowering. It is within anyone's own control to change into whoever they want to be if they really want to do it. You don't need another person to do anything for you, it is all within your own control. It helps immensely to have professional help, of course, but I think it would be far sadder if no one could change or heal without relying on knights in shining armor to swoop in and make decisions for them! You cannot give another person worth. They need to choose to learn to believe in themselves. If someone believes they are worthless and will always be left, they will always find a way to keep believing it, and yes sabotage things, even if the other person never "leaves." Because it is about themselves not about the other person. The wound is within themselves, and until they learn not to abandon themselves first, they will keep pushing others away no matter what. Maybe slower with some people than others, but if these wounds are unaddressed, they'll still do it down the line. You cannot love an adult into loving themselves. They need to love themselves first before they can properly love others. AP look to other people to emotionally regulate them, due to various complicated reasons from their past, and due to trusting others more than self. They have major issues emotionally regulating themselves. But they also tend to project that on others, that everyone needs someone else to emotionally regulate them. This isn't actually true. DA flat out resent it, partially due to distrust of others. FA go back and forth since they switch between anxious, looking for the codependent external emotional regulation (partially due to distrust of self), and avoidant, not wanting it at all (partially due to distrust of others). Secure people will want a balance with healthy boundaries: they'll seek a supportive partner but not one who tries to enmesh and save the day because a mature, healthy adult needs to be able to self-soothe. Comfort with independence and inter-dependence, appreciating support but still knowing and wanting to be responsible for their own moods and reactions. Children need help grounding their nervous systems and need others to emotionally regulate them when they are too young to do it themselves, but in doing so, they are taught by the others over time how they can learn to self-soothe, and make the transition into doing so as they get older. If a child never learned this, and it is typical enough for insecure attachers to not get the opportunity, then they need professional help to show the way because you don't quickly and subconsciously learn and internalize this stuff as an adult in the way you could as a child. And because it's a combined effort of rewiring your own nervous system, healing trauma, and learning new skills. Trying to "help" someone do this when you are a romantic partner completely screws up the relationship, in regards to one of you essentially becomes the parent instead of a romantic partner, the other will lose attraction to you, there is enmeshment, it screws up boundaries, it does not create a healthy dynamic over time at all. It does not create a partnership of equals, either. In order for someone to show up in a relationship, they need to feel okay with themselves, and be whole on their own. If they have an insecure attachment style, then they need to decide as an adult to take the responsibility to get there, even though it wasn't their fault they had a rough past. It doesn't change the fact they did have a rough past and have to learn how to live in a better way for themselves and heal. If you want to be with her, you need to accept her exactly as she is, even if she never changes. If she does decide to get help, then great for her! She will change and you will see if you still like each other and want the same things even after she is different. But it is her decision. One thing I can tell you from years of screwing up myself is that if you are in a romantic relationship and believe it would just be so great if the other person would only change in some way, then the relationship is doomed. You don't have to end everything. You can be just friends if you truly have no romantic agenda, and it would not distract you from building new connections with other women. It also sounds like you've already assessed her ability, but you don't like the answer (you didn't like the coach's answer and hoped you would hear something different here). Just don't settle for breadcrumbs... having a significant other who will still text you but ignores you in person is not a functional relationship.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 23, 2023 1:09:52 GMT
I have a slightly different approach…tell her how well your therapy is going and see if she is curious about it. If she isn’t, then I would suggest you drop it. As someone with FA attachment wounding, it felt really enmeshing for someone to suggest that I change. A big challenge for people with FA is 1. Feeling safe 2. Feeling accepted just as we are. So my suggestion is that you continue to work on you and share how things are going and let her decide if she even wants to hear about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 6:44:48 GMT
I have a slightly different approach…tell her how well your therapy is going and see if she is curious about it. If she isn’t, then I would suggest you drop it. As someone with FA attachment wounding, it felt really enmeshing for someone to suggest that I change. A big challenge for people with FA is 1. Feeling safe 2. Feeling accepted just as we are. So my suggestion is that you continue to work on you and share how things are going and let her decide if she even wants to hear about it. This is the perfect approach. In my opinion. It'd be cool to have a FAQ with top recommendations for how to address an unaware person- this should be at the top of the list!
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2023 7:17:42 GMT
I've tried this too, and the one caution I'll add about it is, someone may be very happy to hear about your experience and your issues because it's a distraction from their own. So they are listening but not actually relating it to themselves in any way. That's why I side on outright mentioning attachment theory being helpful to you because it provides something actionable for them to look up if they really are self-motivated and curious, even if they don't want to discuss it with you. Plus a complete lack of reception to it tells you everything you need to know about assessing where they are at. So it feels more direct in my opinion, without adding the nuance of defensiveness that some people get when they hear the word therapy.
That doesn't mean you can't try one or both approaches. But YMMV with either one. The best outcome, of course, is she's very interested in trying therapy and motivated enough to do her own research on providers and book her own appointment!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 8:22:30 GMT
I've tried this too, and the one caution I'll add about it is, someone may be very happy to hear about your experience and your issues because it's a distraction from their own. So they are listening but not actually relating it to themselves in any way. That's why I side on outright mentioning attachment theory being helpful to you because it provides something actionable for them to look up if they really are self-motivated and curious, even if they don't want to discuss it with you. Plus a complete lack of reception to it tells you everything you need to know about assessing where they are at. So it feels more direct in my opinion, without adding the nuance of defensiveness that some people get when they hear the word therapy. That doesn't mean you can't try one or both approaches. But YMMV with either one. The best outcome, of course, is she's very interested in trying therapy and motivated enough to do her own research on providers and book her own appointment! Good points, true. And anyway, I think the odds of the personal in question biting and delving into AT are extremely low based upon what I've seen. It's an insecure fantasy, all of it. Ive never seen that pan out. I am nearly certain people here asking would love to provide that special update and let us know we are all wrong if we are wrong. Never had one single person come back and say things worked out like they hoped. Not one single time and I've seen this question posted a LOT.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2023 18:22:50 GMT
I agree, @introverttemporary. As I said, in my experience, the only time I've ever seen any of this really lead to change is when the person came to me. This was always friends, never significant others or exes (working this out with someone who is a strong attachment figure to you is too scary and triggering). Even with the lower pressure relationship of friendship without any romantic involvement ever, "success" is still 50-50, depending 100% on if the person is truly ready to seek their own answers and heal or not. Sometimes they say they want help but then make up endless excuses to never pick up the phone and schedule that first therapy appointment, or simply say attachment theory makes sense but doesn't seem actionable.
That's why my first question is, what led to OP making changes? I've asked a lot of people that. The answer is always pain, often after yet another breakup that seems to repeat a relationship pattern, but never other people leading them there. Neil Strauss's book The Truth, about his journey to awareness and acceptance that he had inner work to do, is hundreds of pages about how deep his denial was, and how his friends actually straight out told him the answers to his issues and path to heal them 2 years earlier, but he wasn't ready to listen yet.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 23, 2023 22:09:24 GMT
Even if that person is interested and curious about attachment if someone isn't in the place to do the emotional work, it won't really do anything for them.
They may read some material, understand it in theory but not really "get" how it is showing up in their relationships or how to even start to fix their patterns. I've seen this response more than once.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 23:52:35 GMT
Even if that person is interested and curious about attachment if someone isn't in the place to do the emotional work, it won't really do anything for them. They may read some material, understand it in theory but not really "get" how it is showing up in their relationships or how to even start to fix their patterns. I've seen this response more than once. No one led me to this I found it myself when I started searching and it's taken me years to get where I am- I'm not done lol
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 24, 2023 0:14:00 GMT
Even if that person is interested and curious about attachment if someone isn't in the place to do the emotional work, it won't really do anything for them. They may read some material, understand it in theory but not really "get" how it is showing up in their relationships or how to even start to fix their patterns. I've seen this response more than once. No one led me to this I found it myself when I started searching and it's taken me years to get where I am- I'm not done lol Exactly. It took many situationships to even get me to start understanding how attachment was causing issues for me. Then months of reading, a year of weekly therapy and then even more reading and I'm still a massive work in progress. When I started I got it but didn't really get it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 0:20:33 GMT
No one led me to this I found it myself when I started searching and it's taken me years to get where I am- I'm not done lol Exactly. It took many situationships to even get me to start understanding how attachment was causing issues for me. Then months of reading, a year of weekly therapy and then even more reading and I'm still a massive work in progress. When I started I got it but didn't really get it. SAME. Get this. I was like ohhhhhh he's one of those jerks!!! An unavailable man! So I was like, what's this attachment stuff, huh. A quiz said I was hugely DA. I had no idea my answers weren't normal, I thought I was the one with my feet in reality. Seriously. As a DA. That made me go to therapy and therapist said uh yeah you're extremely avoidant and I was like wow but I like that about myself.
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