chase
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by chase on Apr 17, 2023 17:43:11 GMT
New here. Trying to absorb as much as possible so I can make some decisions.
Me-in a newer relationship a year plus or so with guy I have known acquaintance level for a while. He seemed to be a deep thinker, sensitive, good with words and expressing. I thought very emotionally connected. It was attractive, he made me feel special once he told me he had feelings. Flattering. I was told he felt neglected as a child. like he never was seen nor got what he felt like he deserved out of life. He had work published but it failed to make him feel accomplished and he often ruminates on his perceived "failure".
At times he goes silent. Runs hot and cold. When I questioned it at first the was there love bombing again saying GOD NO it wasn't me, that he didn't want me to see any tarnish or ugliness on him because everything that he loves and feels like he wants leaves him so he would understand if I wanted out. I said-you are sabotaging this relationship with those thoughts and behaviors. I hadn't planned on going anywhere but if you keep disappearing and going quiet, I am not sure what to think? Am I Wanted? Am I annoying you by checking on you?" There would be a good talk and he would ensure me there was deep love, he needs and wants me and he would never leave me. (? ok, well what about me feeling ignored on the regular?) then for days or weeks everything would be fine. But then he has routinely said things like "bear with me if I go quiet and dark/hide/disappear." Then without warning, he becomes emotionally unavailable. Missing. Reading but not responding to messages. I said "feels like you say one thing and do another. I have asked-if you need space and time, to work on whatever is going on in your head, TELL me so I don't look around and you are just GONE. So I know you are going through one of those times." I have considered but I don't have any reason to think there is another woman happening. I think this may be a behavioral and maybe mental health thing. He takes medications for anxiety, sometimes forgets and then tells me how bad it feels. Told me he is used to dealing with demons on his own, doesn't want to burden anyone with them. But I ASKED-just alert me. Is that not appropriate to ask?
He is in a cycle now. It's been a week. Now it feels like breadcrumbing. A tiny message yesterday and an emoji. This going dark, quiet, avoiding answering my texts or finding time to see me, has been lasting anywhere form a day to a week (this is long for our history). I don't double text, but there are 24 hours at a time sometimes more that there is no contact from someone who professes with poetry to love me. My dignity is taking a hit. I am pretty secure in myself and have no issues busying myself while someone in in their head, but also find this is making me anxious. What can anyone tell me about if this behavior is normal for DA or should I RUN? Or approach it differently to help him see that I am CLOSE to running but don't WANT to run, I have serious "helper" instincts (not always good for me I know) and he is a really good guy-when he is not in a hole. self fulfilling prophecy of "everything I love leaves me anyway."
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 17, 2023 20:26:10 GMT
New here. Trying to absorb as much as possible so I can make some decisions. Me-in a newer relationship a year plus or so with guy I have known acquaintance level for a while. He seemed to be a deep thinker, sensitive, good with words and expressing. I thought very emotionally connected. It was attractive, he made me feel special once he told me he had feelings. Flattering. I was told he felt neglected as a child. like he never was seen nor got what he felt like he deserved out of life. He had work published but it failed to make him feel accomplished and he often ruminates on his perceived "failure". At times he goes silent. Runs hot and cold. When I questioned it at first the was there love bombing again saying GOD NO it wasn't me, that he didn't want me to see any tarnish or ugliness on him because everything that he loves and feels like he wants leaves him so he would understand if I wanted out. I said-you are sabotaging this relationship with those thoughts and behaviors. I hadn't planned on going anywhere but if you keep disappearing and going quiet, I am not sure what to think? Am I Wanted? Am I annoying you by checking on you?" There would be a good talk and he would ensure me there was deep love, he needs and wants me and he would never leave me. (? ok, well what about me feeling ignored on the regular?) then for days or weeks everything would be fine. But then he has routinely said things like "bear with me if I go quiet and dark/hide/disappear." Then without warning, he becomes emotionally unavailable. Missing. Reading but not responding to messages. I said "feels like you say one thing and do another. I have asked-if you need space and time, to work on whatever is going on in your head, TELL me so I don't look around and you are just GONE. So I know you are going through one of those times." I have considered but I don't have any reason to think there is another woman happening. I think this may be a behavioral and maybe mental health thing. He takes medications for anxiety, sometimes forgets and then tells me how bad it feels. Told me he is used to dealing with demons on his own, doesn't want to burden anyone with them. But I ASKED-just alert me. Is that not appropriate to ask? He is in a cycle now. It's been a week. Now it feels like breadcrumbing. A tiny message yesterday and an emoji. This going dark, quiet, avoiding answering my texts or finding time to see me, has been lasting anywhere form a day to a week (this is long for our history). I don't double text, but there are 24 hours at a time sometimes more that there is no contact from someone who professes with poetry to love me. My dignity is taking a hit. I am pretty secure in myself and have no issues busying myself while someone in in their head, but also find this is making me anxious. What can anyone tell me about if this behavior is normal for DA or should I RUN? Or approach it differently to help him see that I am CLOSE to running but don't WANT to run, I have serious "helper" instincts (not always good for me I know) and he is a really good guy-when he is not in a hole. self fulfilling prophecy of "everything I love leaves me anyway." Doesn’t sound like a DA at all….the hot/cold but with low self esteem is more aligned with FA…..but, it sounds like there is more to it if he is on medication for anxiety and likely is struggling with depression as well. It also sounds like he is aware that he disappears….but doesn’t have an awareness of when that will happen, so he just “goes silent”. Personally, having anxiety/depression alone can be a tough battle (especially if he is not taking his prescribed medication), but to add onto it insecure attachment can really throw someone’s behavior and mood in all directions. This does not sound like someone who is at all ready for a relationship because he hasn’t worked through the underlying medical issues he has going on. It might be good to try going back to being friends. Have you had a narcissist relationship in the past because you use terminology that is tied to narcissistic behavior…such as love bombing and bread crumbing. Attachment issues are very different from NPD although some behaviors can feel narcissistic in the moment. |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 17, 2023 21:46:03 GMT
I agree it sounds more FA.
I did date a DA who did the disappearing parts (without the sabotage and low self esteem). He would get overwhelmed with life once in a while and disappear without warning for about a week and a half. It was nothing personal, and he'd hole up in his room working or working on his hobbies the entire time. Nothing to do with other women, since that was something we definitely discussed after the first time it happened. The truth was, I had to just be okay with him doing this sometimes, or not, and decide if I wanted a relationship like that. Whether or not I accepted that it was part of who he was at the time and if it still met my needs adequately was up to me. I did not know or recognize it as an avoidance coping mechanism at the time since I knew nothing about attachment styles, and neither did he.
I was okay with it at the time since he was a very sweet person, and we were young and not living together / so serious yet that I needed his daily support (we were dating like this a year and half and broke up amicably for other incompatibility reasons, but since we were very young we weren't rushing into living together or engagement or similarly serious milestones... if we got that serious, I wouldn't have still been okay with disappearing). He'd continue periodically doing it and coming back recharged, and I'd do my own thing while he was silent. I'd asked him to try to give me warning when he needed that kind of space, but he just couldn't because he didn't understand it himself at the time. Anyway, to get to what my next point will be, I can tell you the outcome was that he wouldn't be ready for serious commitment and marriage for another 15 years or so, though he's happily married now.
In a situation like this, I personally think the most important thing is if the partner having difficulties is doing anything about it on their own. Your boyfriend is getting medication for his anxiety, but is he also getting therapy? It isn't a promising sign if he's pushing you away and telling you you're better off without him, as opposed to taking more accountability and recognizing 1. he needs more help to manage his mental health issues 2. it isn't your responsibility to do it for him 3. it's not fair for him to take it out on you or disrespect you even when he's having an anxious episode. You can absolutely be loving and supportive, since he is struggling, but you don't want to cross the line into enabling or co-dependent. You also don't want to shove your own needs far to the side, and you need to stay honest with yourself about if you can be satisfied with this dynamic if it never changes. You can empathize with his situation while recognizing if he's not in a place to help himself, and maybe that means it isn't the right situation for you after all. Figuring that out is all part of dating and getting to know someone over time.
I'd personally have a discussion with him when he's not triggered or withdrawn and he is calm about how you love him and want to be with him, but this isn't sustainable for you as is. There needs to be some kind of game plan for how he's going to proceed, and you will absolutely be supportive of him seeking help and be understanding of his need for space sometimes if he's actively trying to work through it. But if he's going to wallow and hide and be in this cycle of repeating it over and over, then it's hard for you to grow together the way you're looking for in a relationship. Be brief and concise, avoidants don't do well with walls of words in stressful situations and can't always process them. But you should still be honest, both with him and yourself, and then give him some time to think about what he wants to do from there. If you can't get through to him and he retreats into insecurity and self-pity, then he may simply not be ready or willing to confront his own trauma yet. And that's okay, but it may mean the timing isn't right for you two to be together, depending on what kind of relationship you are looking for. If he does earnestly want to proceed with seeking help, make sure you back up your words with your actions consistently and do be supportive and still present in the relationship but give him enough space and patience to do his own work. If he's ready, he will stop with the hot and cold and start being consistent. If he can't do that, you should re-assess what you want.
My experience has also been that if people come to you saying they want help or something needs to change, it is far more likely (though not always the case) that they're ready and motivated enough to make changes. If you need to go to them, it may be a wakeup call, but it may still take some time for them to be able to listen and follow through. Or they may need many wakeup calls over many different relationships, there's no way to tell how someone else's process will go if you don't want the same things out of a relationship at the same time. So again, he may not be in the same emotional place you are in terms of wanting the type of romantic relationship you want and being ready for it. And unfortunately, that just happens sometimes, and then it hurts, but by that point you've communicated your piece and then need to let go with love.
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chase
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by chase on Apr 17, 2023 22:09:02 GMT
Doesn’t sound like a DA at all….the hot/cold but with low self esteem is more aligned with FA…..but, it sounds like there is more to it if he is on medication for anxiety and likely is struggling with depression as well. It also sounds like he is aware that he disappears….but doesn’t have an awareness of when that will happen, so he just “goes silent”. Personally, having anxiety/depression alone can be a tough battle (especially if he is not taking his prescribed medication), but to add onto it insecure attachment can really throw someone’s behavior and mood in all directions. This does not sound like someone who is at all ready for a relationship because he hasn’t worked through the underlying medical issues he has going on. It might be good to try going back to being friends. Have you had a narcissist relationship in the past because you use terminology that is tied to narcissistic behavior…such as love bombing and bread crumbing. Attachment issues are very different from NPD although some behaviors can feel narcissistic in the moment. I've not had a romantic narcissist relationship before. I had a Narc friend I cut off one time but it was really devious N behavior. This doesn't feel at all like that. The meds and anxiety were not disclosed to me until months into the relationship when he admitted he tried quitting them cold turkey. I was miffed but also attached to him by then and understood you may not share that with someone right away so I let it go after telling him--if you NEED them you should TAKE them. No shame. A couple of times he stated he forgot to take them over a couple of day stretch and that is another time when things went bad. There are weeks that pass and things are amazing. And yes. Love bombing ( I feel now because I am hurt) with words SOMETIMES. beautiful things both said and written. I used breadcrumbs because I read somewhere that DA (the source may have used it wrong) keeps stringing you along giving you just enough. That's what it feels like when he disengages with me. The last week and a half it has been almost zero contact and responses then when I see him in person (we work in the same complex but are not co workers) he acts totally normal. We don't see each other daily there. He used to ask to stop on my breaks once in a while and me on his, not expected but nice surprises. No after work dates or other dates/sleepovers/hanging out in a week and a half. I asked about getting together a week and a half ago and was given some excuse. So my MO is not to ask again until he does or seems ready. I just carry on with life and don't want to be needy about it. It's never been this long though. I think the worst is that He acts like he is fine and everything is normal. Small talks to me like nothing is wrong but has told me something deep is going on but doesn't revisit and share what he is feeling. He used to message me each morning and it would go back and forth equally. Not overbearing either way. Since the spiral last week he went really low to no contact. Not putting himself in the same space as me, taking 24 hours plus to check texts (I don't double text and he always has his phone in hand), sometimes leaving on read, mostly no response or maybe an emoji, yet is on social media with people. I know there was an issue with feeling failure last week and I was told about that very briefly after he disappeared for a couple days. I tried to initiate a talk about it to let him vent but he didn't respond so I left it alone as not to pry or seem needy about information. Then when the response came, it was like "I am just used to dealing on my own. I'm still here, I love you and will never leave you." I just ran into him. He ignored and left on read the one text and question I sent him yesterday afternoon. over 24 hours ago. He smiles and asks how my day is going. I say -just fine, and you? Busy but fine! small chit chat that felt forced. He isn't afraid to be seen with me at the complex so I don't believe it is any other woman issues as I stated. We were in private so I asked, Are you doing ok, you are still so distant? He smiles and says--Yes, I am, I like running into you! Such a good sight to my eyes. It was a tough week last week but I've missed you." I had been researching FA and DA and watching some suggested videos that said I could be more understanding and not come at him with "Why do I feel like you are ignoring me?!" I don't want to seem needy. But maybe I am? So--I broke. I said-"You have been SO QUIET at me. Im not sure what I am supposed to do? What I am supposed to think or feel ?" He said "I don't know what you mean? I am right HERE. before I ended up in tears, I told him, "I better go." and I walked away. My normal relatively stable self is getting anxious. In the pit of my stomach I know if I need to leave, I will be ok but I have feelings now. How does one love someone like this? Quite possibly you are right with the medical issues-but if he won't talk to me about it do I pry or just leave? |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 17, 2023 22:37:32 GMT
Doesn’t sound like a DA at all….the hot/cold but with low self esteem is more aligned with FA…..but, it sounds like there is more to it if he is on medication for anxiety and likely is struggling with depression as well. It also sounds like he is aware that he disappears….but doesn’t have an awareness of when that will happen, so he just “goes silent”. Personally, having anxiety/depression alone can be a tough battle (especially if he is not taking his prescribed medication), but to add onto it insecure attachment can really throw someone’s behavior and mood in all directions. This does not sound like someone who is at all ready for a relationship because he hasn’t worked through the underlying medical issues he has going on. It might be good to try going back to being friends. Have you had a narcissist relationship in the past because you use terminology that is tied to narcissistic behavior…such as love bombing and bread crumbing. Attachment issues are very different from NPD although some behaviors can feel narcissistic in the moment. I've not had a romantic narcissist relationship before. I had a Narc friend I cut off one time but it was really devious N behavior. This doesn't feel at all like that. The meds and anxiety were not disclosed to me until months into the relationship when he admitted he tried quitting them cold turkey. I was miffed but also attached to him by then and understood you may not share that with someone right away so I let it go after telling him--if you NEED them you should TAKE them. No shame. A couple of times he stated he forgot to take them over a couple of day stretch and that is another time when things went bad. There are weeks that pass and things are amazing. And yes. Love bombing ( I feel now because I am hurt) with words SOMETIMES. beautiful things both said and written. I used breadcrumbs because I read somewhere that DA (the source may have used it wrong) keeps stringing you along giving you just enough. That's what it feels like when he disengages with me. The last week and a half it has been almost zero contact and responses then when I see him in person (we work in the same complex but are not co workers) he acts totally normal. We don't see each other daily there. He used to ask to stop on my breaks once in a while and me on his, not expected but nice surprises. No after work dates or other dates/sleepovers/hanging out in a week and a half. I asked about getting together a week and a half ago and was given some excuse. So my MO is not to ask again until he does or seems ready. I just carry on with life and don't want to be needy about it. It's never been this long though. I think the worst is that He acts like he is fine and everything is normal. Small talks to me like nothing is wrong but has told me something deep is going on but doesn't revisit and share what he is feeling. He used to message me each morning and it would go back and forth equally. Not overbearing either way. Since the spiral last week he went really low to no contact. Not putting himself in the same space as me, taking 24 hours plus to check texts (I don't double text and he always has his phone in hand), sometimes leaving on read, mostly no response or maybe an emoji, yet is on social media with people. I know there was an issue with feeling failure last week and I was told about that very briefly after he disappeared for a couple days. I tried to initiate a talk about it to let him vent but he didn't respond so I left it alone as not to pry or seem needy about information. Then when the response came, it was like "I am just used to dealing on my own. I'm still here, I love you and will never leave you." I just ran into him. He ignored and left on read the one text and question I sent him yesterday afternoon. over 24 hours ago. He smiles and asks how my day is going. I say -just fine, and you? Busy but fine! small chit chat that felt forced. He isn't afraid to be seen with me at the complex so I don't believe it is any other woman issues as I stated. We were in private so I asked, Are you doing ok, you are still so distant? He smiles and says--Yes, I am, I like running into you! Such a good sight to my eyes. It was a tough week last week but I've missed you." I had been researching FA and DA and watching some suggested videos that said I could be more understanding and not come at him with "Why do I feel like you are ignoring me?!" I don't want to seem needy. But maybe I am? So--I broke. I said-"You have been SO QUIET at me. Im not sure what I am supposed to do? What I am supposed to think or feel ?" He said "I don't know what you mean? I am right HERE. before I ended up in tears, I told him, "I better go." and I walked away. My normal relatively stable self is getting anxious. In the pit of my stomach I know if I need to leave, I will be ok but I have feelings now. How does one love someone like this? Quite possibly you are right with the medical issues-but if he won't talk to me about it do I pry or just leave? The fact is….it only boils down to…is this working for you? Which clearly it isn’t. He is not DA….based on what you wrote above….if anything, he is FA and leans Avoidant. An FA can lean Anxious or Avoidant or can switch between the two….but with his medical stuff around anxiety/depression….it isn’t an easy call. I don’t recommend investing too much time into trying to understand him….attachment issues are only part of the equation.….plus….and we’ve seen it here countless times…the more anxious partner tries to figure out the more avoidant one and then gets resentful because all the work seems one sided. If he really wants to work on things with you, then he and you will need to look at your own attachment issues and work on addressing those individually. If he doesn’t want to address them or things everything is a ok the way it is….there is your answer. As to how can someone be with someone who is insecure…..happens a lot actually. |
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chase
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by chase on Apr 17, 2023 22:53:07 GMT
My responses in red
I agree it sounds more FA. I did date a DA who did the disappearing parts (without the sabotage and low self esteem). He would get overwhelmed with life once in a while and disappear without warning for about a week and a half. It was nothing personal, and he'd hole up in his room working or working on his hobbies the entire time. Nothing to do with other women, since that was something we definitely discussed after the first time it happened. The truth was, I had to just be okay with him doing this sometimes, or not, and decide if I wanted a relationship like that. Whether or not I accepted that it was part of who he was at the time and if it still met my needs adequately was up to me. I did not know or recognize it as an avoidance coping mechanism at the time since I knew nothing about attachment styles, and neither did he. I was okay with it at the time since he was a very sweet person, and we were young and not living together / so serious yet that I needed his daily support (we were dating like this a year and half and broke up amicably for other incompatibility reasons, but since we were very young we weren't rushing into living together or engagement or similarly serious milestones... if we got that serious, I wouldn't have still been okay with disappearing). He'd continue periodically doing it and coming back recharged, and I'd do my own thing while he was silent. I'd asked him to try to give me warning when he needed that kind of space, but he just couldn't because he didn't understand it himself at the time. Anyway, to get to what my next point will be, I can tell you the outcome was that he wouldn't be ready for serious commitment and marriage for another 15 years or so, though he's happily married now. In a situation like this, I personally think the most important thing is if the partner having difficulties is doing anything about it on their own. Your boyfriend is getting medication for his anxiety, but is he also getting therapy? It isn't a promising sign if he's pushing you away and telling you you're better off without him, as opposed to taking more accountability and recognizing 1. he needs more help to manage his mental health issues 2. it isn't your responsibility to do it for him 3. it's not fair for him to take it out on you or disrespect you even when he's having an anxious episode. You can absolutely be loving and supportive, since he is struggling, but you don't want to cross the line into enabling or co-dependent. You also don't want to shove your own needs far to the side, and you need to stay honest with yourself about if you can be satisfied with this dynamic if it never changes. You can empathize with his situation while recognizing if he's not in a place to help himself, and maybe that means it isn't the right situation for you after all. Figuring that out is all part of dating and getting to know someone over time. **He isn't in any therapy. Should I be suggesting this? Is it offensive to say "I think you need therapy" to someone? How do you bring that up in a loving way? He doesn't WANT me to leave him but its the esteem thing that says "She will probably leave anyway because once she sees your issues and I don't blame her?" and yes yes yes. I am trying hard not to shove my feelings to the side. To ask for what I need. I did have a talk with him once about how I would LIKE timely contact (doesn't have to be overboard or constant) but please don't go radio silent without telling me you are dealing with something. And is there anything I can do to help you? I feel like he heard me and completely forgot. But I am reading via responses that they are not always aware the issues are coming.I'd personally have a discussion with him when he's not triggered or withdrawn and he is calm about how you love him and want to be with him, but this isn't sustainable for you as is. **This sounds like a game plan I am going to have to navigate. Again, I tried the "I Want to be here and be with you but I NEED a few things from you." Maybe he isn't able to provide those things? There needs to be some kind of game plan for how he's going to proceed, and you will absolutely be supportive of him seeking help and be understanding of his need for space sometimes if he's actively trying to work through it. But if he's going to wallow and hide and be in this cycle of repeating it over and over, then it's hard for you to grow together the way you're looking for in a relationship. Be brief and concise, avoidants don't do well with walls of words in stressful situations and can't always process them. **He has mentioned this before. How he takes time to process and respond to things and this has frustrated people in his past. I had let the lack of responses to serious questions go. Sometimes he comes back with answers, mostly not though. But you should still be honest, both with him and yourself, and then give him some time to think about what he wants to do from there. If you can't get through to him and he retreats into insecurity and self-pity, then he may simply not be ready or willing to confront his own trauma yet. And that's okay, but it may mean the timing isn't right for you two to be together, depending on what kind of relationship you are looking for. If he does earnestly want to proceed with seeking help, make sure you back up your words with your actions consistently and do be supportive and still present in the relationship but give him enough space and patience to do his own work. If he's ready, he will stop with the hot and cold and start being consistent. If he can't do that, you should re-assess what you want. **This was so helpful. Thank youMy experience has also been that if people come to you saying they want help or something needs to change, it is far more likely (though not always the case) that they're ready and motivated enough to make changes. If you need to go to them, it may be a wakeup call, but it may still take some time for them to be able to listen and follow through. **It would be a wake up call because I would be the one going to him. Or they may need many wakeup calls over many different relationships, there's no way to tell how someone else's process will go if you don't want the same things out of a relationship at the same time. So again, he may not be in the same emotional place you are in terms of wanting the type of romantic relationship you want and being ready for it. And unfortunately, that just happens sometimes, and then it hurts, but by that point you've communicated your piece and then need to let go with love. |
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chase
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by chase on Apr 17, 2023 22:56:03 GMT
I've not had a romantic narcissist relationship before. I had a Narc friend I cut off one time but it was really devious N behavior. This doesn't feel at all like that. The meds and anxiety were not disclosed to me until months into the relationship when he admitted he tried quitting them cold turkey. I was miffed but also attached to him by then and understood you may not share that with someone right away so I let it go after telling him--if you NEED them you should TAKE them. No shame. A couple of times he stated he forgot to take them over a couple of day stretch and that is another time when things went bad. There are weeks that pass and things are amazing. And yes. Love bombing ( I feel now because I am hurt) with words SOMETIMES. beautiful things both said and written. I used breadcrumbs because I read somewhere that DA (the source may have used it wrong) keeps stringing you along giving you just enough. That's what it feels like when he disengages with me. The last week and a half it has been almost zero contact and responses then when I see him in person (we work in the same complex but are not co workers) he acts totally normal. We don't see each other daily there. He used to ask to stop on my breaks once in a while and me on his, not expected but nice surprises. No after work dates or other dates/sleepovers/hanging out in a week and a half. I asked about getting together a week and a half ago and was given some excuse. So my MO is not to ask again until he does or seems ready. I just carry on with life and don't want to be needy about it. It's never been this long though. I think the worst is that He acts like he is fine and everything is normal. Small talks to me like nothing is wrong but has told me something deep is going on but doesn't revisit and share what he is feeling. He used to message me each morning and it would go back and forth equally. Not overbearing either way. Since the spiral last week he went really low to no contact. Not putting himself in the same space as me, taking 24 hours plus to check texts (I don't double text and he always has his phone in hand), sometimes leaving on read, mostly no response or maybe an emoji, yet is on social media with people. I know there was an issue with feeling failure last week and I was told about that very briefly after he disappeared for a couple days. I tried to initiate a talk about it to let him vent but he didn't respond so I left it alone as not to pry or seem needy about information. Then when the response came, it was like "I am just used to dealing on my own. I'm still here, I love you and will never leave you." I just ran into him. He ignored and left on read the one text and question I sent him yesterday afternoon. over 24 hours ago. He smiles and asks how my day is going. I say -just fine, and you? Busy but fine! small chit chat that felt forced. He isn't afraid to be seen with me at the complex so I don't believe it is any other woman issues as I stated. We were in private so I asked, Are you doing ok, you are still so distant? He smiles and says--Yes, I am, I like running into you! Such a good sight to my eyes. It was a tough week last week but I've missed you." I had been researching FA and DA and watching some suggested videos that said I could be more understanding and not come at him with "Why do I feel like you are ignoring me?!" I don't want to seem needy. But maybe I am? So--I broke. I said-"You have been SO QUIET at me. Im not sure what I am supposed to do? What I am supposed to think or feel ?" He said "I don't know what you mean? I am right HERE. before I ended up in tears, I told him, "I better go." and I walked away. My normal relatively stable self is getting anxious. In the pit of my stomach I know if I need to leave, I will be ok but I have feelings now. How does one love someone like this? Quite possibly you are right with the medical issues-but if he won't talk to me about it do I pry or just leave? The fact is….it only boils down to…is this working for you? Which clearly it isn’t. He is not DA….based on what you wrote above….if anything, he is FA and leans Avoidant. An FA can lean Anxious or Avoidant or can switch between the two….but with his medical stuff around anxiety/depression….it isn’t an easy call. I don’t recommend investing too much time into trying to understand him….attachment issues are only part of the equation.….plus….and we’ve seen it here countless times…the more anxious partner tries to figure out the more avoidant one and then gets resentful because all the work seems one sided. If he really wants to work on things with you, then he and you will need to look at your own attachment issues and work on addressing those individually. If he doesn’t want to address them or things everything is a ok the way it is….there is your answer. As to how can someone be with someone who is insecure…..happens a lot actually. This is all so interesting. I too have attachment issues. I am anxious about all of this. If we end up working or not, I would want to proceed with love. Even though I am really frustrated now but beginning to understand things. Wow. I had no clue. I appreciate you. |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 17, 2023 23:03:55 GMT
I don't think you should outright tell him he needs therapy. I think it's a matter of telling him exactly what isn't working for you in this situation and what you need (though he will probably get defensive ie she's about to abandon me, which is why you need to keep it simple and concise so he doesn't get too overwhelmed), and from your perspective going on and off his meds makes things worse. And then ask questions like has he discussed with his psychiatrist if there's a better dosage and medication combination for him, since this stuff is all trial and error, and ask if he's considered adding therapy to supplement the medication? Like, from the standpoint of, you care and you're trying to better understand the situation and can help him do a bit of brainstorming if he wants, but you're not telling him what he should be doing to take care of himself or that he's "not good enough" as he is without changing himself. There's a difference between that and there need to be changes in the relationship or else you're not compatible, but someone insecure isn't going to be able to hear the nuance, and they will hear they can't give you what you want and then probably shut down. Though it may indeed be the case that they don't have the capacity to give you what you need, in spite of a desire to be able to do so.
You giving him a laundry list of what you need and him forgetting half of it isn't about you, it's because if he can't even deal with his own stuff, he probably doesn't have the bandwidth to make changes for you. It's all connected to the core mental health issues he has. That's why you should try not to take it personally and not let it impact your own dignity and self-esteem, but after you really talk to him about the state of where things are at and give him some time to respond, it's okay to end the romantic relationship if he doesn't change anything or if the situation still is not improving or working for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2023 23:50:24 GMT
Since you asked, I'd suggest RUN, simply because the guy is inconsistent, unavailable and seems to expect you to just bear with him and his drama and inconsiderate behavior, rather than making choices and taking action that support you and support the relationship. That right there tells you everything you need to know, in my opinion although not everyone will agree. In hindsight, I would have regarded red flags like unavailability and toxic relationship behavior (that's what going dark is, whatever the cause...) as deal breakers... but we all live and learn, we Eff Around and Find Out, as I mentioned in another post.
Your behavior is enabling, you are overfunctioning to compensate for his underfunctioning, its a whole textbook anxious avoidant dysfunctional dynamic.
Therapy for yourself is an option, therapy for him is his choice, therapy for the both of you is up to both of you, but even therapy doesn't right a lifetime of unhealthy coping and compensating in a short amount of time. It's a long road.
Good luck whatever you choose! And welcome to the boards, lots of good recovery and insight here.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 18, 2023 1:53:04 GMT
I agree with @introverttemporary that the outlook isn't great because he's so far not taken the initiative to do what he needs to for himself. So the outcome very well may be "run" when he gives you a bunch of excuses and nothing changes. But since you've been together a while, I'd still try to have a direct conversation about it first. And the other reason I've suggested that is, if you're trying to work out your own attachment issues and you've been responding to him in an anxious way, it's possible you haven't been entirely upfront about what you want in an attempt to not push him away, because that is the anxious coping mechanism. And it's an important step in your own growth and security to practice voicing your needs, and finding out it's not the end of the world to do so (even if this specific person isn't the right one with relationship needs that match yours). You'll know you've done your part and communicated them with your partner, you've really listened to what he has to say in response (rather than trying to influence him to respond how you'd prefer), and then you've chosen to honor your own needs afterwards, ie you don't abandon yourself twisting into a pretzel for him even if things don't play out the way you'd hoped after you talk about it.
This does not mean ruminate afterwards thinking about every other single way you can voice your opinion until you find the right one that makes him respond how you want. It means sitting with yourself beforehand and trying to connect with yourself to understand your own needs. Then communicating them with your partner so no one is mind-reading.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 18, 2023 11:30:37 GMT
The fact is….it only boils down to…is this working for you? Which clearly it isn’t. He is not DA….based on what you wrote above….if anything, he is FA and leans Avoidant. An FA can lean Anxious or Avoidant or can switch between the two….but with his medical stuff around anxiety/depression….it isn’t an easy call. I don’t recommend investing too much time into trying to understand him….attachment issues are only part of the equation.….plus….and we’ve seen it here countless times…the more anxious partner tries to figure out the more avoidant one and then gets resentful because all the work seems one sided. If he really wants to work on things with you, then he and you will need to look at your own attachment issues and work on addressing those individually. If he doesn’t want to address them or things everything is a ok the way it is….there is your answer. As to how can someone be with someone who is insecure…..happens a lot actually. This is all so interesting. I too have attachment issues. I am anxious about all of this. If we end up working or not, I would want to proceed with love. Even though I am really frustrated now but beginning to understand things. Wow. I had no clue. I appreciate you.It is really good you recognize your own attachment insecurity…..there is a lot of really good information on the AP boards. I understand why you want to try to understand his behavior and work towards a better outcome because I tried just that with the last guy I was dating and unfortunately it did not really change anything because his attachment insecurity and mine really had not budged. I agree with alexandra and @introvert about how to discuss this with him through open ended questions and if he is still unable to make forward progress on his attachment insecurity, then it will be time to end the romantic relationship and return to a friendship. I feel free to ask any questions along the way. |
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Post by anne12 on Apr 18, 2023 14:14:30 GMT
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chase
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Post by chase on Apr 18, 2023 19:16:31 GMT
update. Last night I (yep, was anxious) and sent a short text saying that I understand that my attachment needs are different that his and that I do care and since I am invested in the relationship in a loving way no matter where it goes, I think we would do well with a talk about each of our needs and if we are providing what the other would like.
it was met with a heart emoji this morning-that's all. No other contact. ugh.
On my lunch time, he walked into my workspace unannounced and asked if I wanted to go sit and talk. I said first that I was invested in the relationship and I do love him but I would be unfair to myself for not finding out his thoughts on some things. I asked if he was aware of his absence the past week or so. He said not in the beginning but yes he is now. He is very used to going into himself when he is feeling failure as not to bother anyone else with it because he feels "in the way" when he gets like that. I asked why he thinks he is in the way? He didn't have a great answer other than to say, I feel like I have always been in the way. His parents neglected him and left him to fend for himself most of the time. I said, if you open up to me when you are feeling like hiding, do you think I will run away? He said, yes. That I will get too close and see the ugly and not want him. Yet he knows somewhere I am safe and do love him and he LOVES me. Deeper love, reciprocal love and a feeling of safety than he has ever known. (yikes)
We talked about one of his long relationships more in depth than we ever had before (probably another posts worth of information). I asked how do you think that makes people that care for you feel like when you tuck away with no warning? He admitted he often doesn't think about others when it happens, only that he wants to hide and work through it alone. He said he can see that it upsets me. I told him that I am beginning to understand the why of my anxious when contact is suddenly withdrawn. Even though my home as a child looked normal and stable, I never felt my mother was satisfied with me. Sometimes I did ok by her and most times I couldn't do anything right. My father was kind but worked nights and was asleep much of my days. As an adult my mother is not overly warm but critical of the way I do things. I explained (as much as I have been able to figure out in the short time) that I am a pleaser and am mildly afraid of not satisfying or being good enough. This is part of MY participation in why I feel anxious in this relationship. I appear to take his disengagement as abandonment. Even though I know he has assured me it isn't. That most of me knows I would be OK in the end if it doesn't work out. I have work to do.
I didn't tell him about this forum in particular but told him I did some reading and discovering. I asked-If we are both interested in continuing on that we owed it to ourselves to be open and honest about the WHYS of our behavior. To work on those and learn about them and how they affect each other on our own. He said that he loved that I am interested enough to want to learn the why's and that over the time we have been together he has learned the most about himself especially because of some of the things that I have brought up for him to consider and discuss. We have had talks about other personality traits we have and they have been enlightening, it's just this disappearing retreating thing that has always confused me. He did say he knew he had work to do especially if his behavior is affecting me and my wanting to be in this with him. That he doesn't want me to hurt. We briefly talked about his meds. He knows that this is important. He did say he would monitor them better. He doesn't often forget but notices when he does. He did say he would check with his Dr about meds and therapy because it is never bad to talk to someone else for perspective and I said I am open to my own therapy if I can't make some headroads. I am responsible for me and my actions and feelings. He is too himself. I said, If you want to work on your own and we are AWARE that this stuff is going on then maybe there is a better chance of it working out. It was calm, it felt received. It's certainly not fixed. But is that a start? Even if it doesn't work out? I am fully aware that it may come to that and I told him. Even though I feel like we owe it to see. I may be completely off base.
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chase
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Post by chase on Apr 18, 2023 19:18:20 GMT
Thank you!! I will spend time reading these! I so appreciate it! |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 18, 2023 19:56:58 GMT
I think it's good you're having open communication about these issues, although you need to wait and see if he really follows through on what he's saying. He will, on his own, monitor his meds better is ehhhh, but if he means doing it with the help of a doctor more seriously to get the trial and error right then that's a step in the right direction.
The warning flag I see here is you need to make sure he doesn't turn YOU into his therapist. He needs to get help for himself because he wants to, not for you, or it won't stick. But it's good that he was open to the discussion, though a little less good that he did it by showing up unannounced in the middle of your workday. That sounds like a pretty distracting time and totally on his schedule preference, which isn't great.
In the meantime, you introspecting on your own family dynamics and looking into therapy for yourself is absolutely a good course of action, no matter what he does or how things go with this relationship.
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