KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Jul 2, 2023 10:00:02 GMT
Hello,
update from my situationship that i explained in another thread. Just to say quickly = it lasted 1.5 year
-amazing first year / great connection, responsiveness, reliability, lots of love, great sex -entering the rollercoaster on the 1 year mark ( things were super good between us, they proposed we could live together but i declined, and also started to affirm more my boundaries, also there was a long trip planned to their country of origins, meeting the parents so there were "events" that could have brought the FA to the surface) -last period (since end of may) where they went super cold and distant
So we were in this last period, and i kind of made up my mind to wait for our next meeting (3 weeks to be apart, then one week scheduled to reunite), to see where we were at, and if there was a change in their attitude and if i could take the r-ship still. But at some point, they ask for a call. Which feels weird as the communication was super shallow even by message. So at some point, i ask "is there something specific you wanted to address ?", and at first, they're like "no, just talking, checking". But then they come back 2 hours later to say that yes, there si something specific they want to address.
What they wanted to tell me, is that they crushed on their collaborator, and that they want to be honest to tell me because it would be weird to have me in the house with this situation with the collaborator. So i'm like = "so you don't want me to come ?" them : "no i just need to tell you, out of honesty, so that it's not awkward". OMG Yes we are in an open relationship, but this is quite high in the level of fuckery. They have been working together for one year now, on and off, and we had a little crisis in the beginning about them, which my FA was really toxic about.
During the call, Im' trying to stay composed. and in fact, i manage to do most of the times. And i say very calmy that then i will not come, because it's true it's an awkward situation. And anyway, we need to take a lot of distance now (i'm already thinking this is over, but i don't manage to say).
According to what they tell me, they came to spend 3 days with S (the collaborator) in their house to hang out after a job they had to do and then they both addressed having feelings but agreed to not act on that because they both have somebody in their lives (which makes no sense for my FA as we are in an open r-ship, so my guess is it's more the other person that said that). They mentionned having a drive of sending me a picture of the sea in that moment, but they didn't because they didn't want to create a talk between us.
So they decided to do phone they were super confused from them. They cried a lot, were very emotional. I'm having a hard time remembering everything. But what stays for me is : -i feel far from you -i have an alone wave (wanting to party and stuff)
- i want space to live this thing with S (even though it seemd there is not really anything happening as thery were saying at times : no but there's nothing, nothing's changed between us).
Right after we hung up, they sent me other messages quite contradictory saying they have the weird instinct that we could go through this with "love, patience, trust and empathy", remindind a sentence i said "love is what you make it", and saying (also something i said once) that maybe we should start from scratch again to find other dynamics. So basically, they want to keep the door open. They also said during the call = "i don't want you out of my life" several times (but we all know here how this goes). To this i stopped answering. They ended retaking me saying "we both need to take space" earlier in the chat and said that they would "listen to this now", maybe because i was not answering.
Anyway, here i am, and it seems pretty clear that i have my answer now instead of in 3 weeks. I could address that they were sabotaging the r-ship, and mentionned their way of escaping.
My thinking that they are FA seem to be confirming, not that it's a relief, but at least i have this, and everything i learnt in this forum and elsewhere to navigate that shitty behaviour and without this and this forum, i would be sooooooo lost.
Now i'm wondering how things will go .. If they will try to rekindle.. I guess yes. I wonder then how i will manage with that. I muted them on instagram and are preventing them from seeing my stories, but maybe i wasn't clear enough that this is over.. I tried to write several messages this morning to really say but truth is, i don't really feell like messaging them again. And i feel allowed to also be vague and blurry and confused. And to let things rot.
I'm leaving it at that for now. I'll just go no contact, and grieve.
I'm happy to have any feedback from your side, i'm feeling lost and sad, confused even if i had a lot of keys delivered here
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Post by introvert on Jul 4, 2023 15:23:56 GMT
About the open relationship ... are you sure it's high in the level of fuckery for the other to become interested in someone else, in the absence of monogamy? Or are you just saying that because his choice to be non-monogamous hurts?
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Jul 5, 2023 7:21:55 GMT
No of course, if it's open, by definition, it should be ok, although it doesn"t prevent knee-jerk reaction of jealousy which you have to work on. I agreed on trying this with them because i also saw it as a way of working together the issues. Not only openness. I naively thought that if they could make this work with their previous partner, they should be a good communicator. (i don't think it really worked with the previous partner either now that i understand more their way of talking). Weirdly enough, i think i could manage to have an open relationship with the right partner. I.E, someone that is clear in the communication, and soft.
What i should have pointed out in my post (i'm sorry, i wrote it in the heat of the realisation of what was happening) is the double standards (on their side, not accepting 1% of what they are doing right now in the terms that seem reasonable for a r-ship to keep going. They chose a co-worker (working on an art project together), and in choosing so, they are preventing me to come and meet them in the house they rented for the event to happen in a very cute city that would have been kind of my holidays with them. They are forcing me to cancel last minute, leaving me the responsibilty to do as all they could say was "this would be awkward, but i'm just telling you". Sp maybe it's also partly a push away technique. (but imagine, me saying "no, don't worry, i will come anyway, i don't care  .
They've been working together for one year now, which could leave me to think they (my ex) already had that in the back of their head for a while. We also had a fight one year ago about them giving clear signs that something was cooking with this person, and they always denied. The fight was more about them accusing me of being easily triggered, that the trigger was nothing (again, double standards, as they would get triggered for me just talking to somebody in an event. They were, in fact. At least the 1st year, super jealous. They only admitted recently that maybe they didn't want an open r-ship in that year. And they communicated that by protest behaviours, that made me to renounce going for the person that was interested with me in respect for their feelings. It happened 3 times.
So, it's more the inequity of the thing that is making to cringe. I have also this fight coming back to my mind (from one year ago), that was quite big. At the end, i think i was more "fighting" to get them to validate my feelings. It never came, so i, myself came to the conclusion that it was best to forget it, in an "agree to disagree" kind of way. But it was a red flag.
But the relating to openness is not so much what puzzles me/makes me cringe : it's more them being, or looking like it's totally ok, to suddenly decide that our r-ship is not a priority, and changing their mind forces me to redefine my summer according to their change of moods and desires.
So what it tells me is whether it's open or not, basic respect for your partner or even just a friend's time and money is, imo fundamental in relating to others. I don't find it here, that's not what i signed for. I'm out.
After the phone call and their messages aiming at leaving the door open when they return (but if that thing goes well with the co-worker, they could totally forget about me in a whimp, that's what i understand now), i just slipped into silence and muted them on instagram (+ i don't look at their stories anymore). They sent me a picture 2 days after that which i only replied the day after, they tried to start a conversation but i didn't follow through.
That's where i am now.
I don't know what they're looking for. But it doesn't look that they are aiming at respect and a loving r-ship. They mentionned being super confused with their feelings, needing to be alone (but also trying to mingle with somebody else), but also mighty certain that we could work this out...
Hehe, quite a ride eh ?
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Post by introvert on Jul 5, 2023 14:35:11 GMT
That's a ride I would jump off of, and try not to go on again, for sure. I'd definitely let this one rot!
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Post by mrob on Jul 5, 2023 15:06:31 GMT
What a situation. Isn’t it great, though, to actually know where you are, what you’ll accept and what you won’t? To recoil from behaviour like this is more a sign of progress.
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 5, 2023 20:26:32 GMT
I've dabbled in poly on and off and I will say it's full of insecures who try to hide behind the label or non-labels. But when push comes to shove they can't handle a two way street.
It can be very confusing to have someone say I don't want exclusivity then get jealous and when you try to openly talk about it they shut down.
If anything poly requires two excellent communicators with the ability to self regulate, set boundaries and navigate conflict.
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Post by mrob on Jul 5, 2023 22:09:51 GMT
Poly is hard. I could accept ENM, but even then, there were two instances, with two different partners where plans had been made for us to spend precious time together that were changed so they could spend time with others. I thought that was crossing the line from sex to something more.
I don’t want to do that again.
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Jul 6, 2023 6:19:25 GMT
I felt as an AP (maybe leaning FA) working towards secure, i was curious to try it to see if it would help alleviate the anxiety i feel in romantic relationships and not at all in friendships. I kind of took the opportunity. Although in the first year, they managed to ruin every encounter i could have had by having fits of jealousy that made it impossible for me to go for it without disrespecting them ans their feelings. They only admitted super recently maybe they didn't want that on the 1st year (and expressed it through protest behaviours throughout).
Now that they think it's the right time for them, they are jumping right into it without much consideration (except from saying "im telling you out of honesty and love and care) It's all "do as i say, but don't do as i do"
cherrycola : I don' tknow about polyamory in general, it's quite spread in the queer community, and hard to escape those questionning , it makes sense that it would be a nest of insecures. But as far as i'm concerned, considering my dating history, i would say the world is a nest of insecures. lol. Im' quite curious to read "polysecure". But for sure, adding an element in the mix is already
@introvert : i'm quite disgusted by the whole ending and i'm also talking to a lot of friends about the whole thing, also to remind me when/if the time comes that they were a terrible partner. I wonder if they will dare to come back. They tried to leave the door open, and i went no contact. I didn't really express it was over though. And now i'm a bit passed that. I don't have the drive in writing a breakup message now. Every time i begin to write one, i give up. Silence seems like the best option for me now.
mrob : i definitely feel empowered and i feel the growing and the work i did. I'm a bit amazed and impressed by myself that i am at this point 4/5 days after a phone call that would have broken me a few years back. Thanks to you all for keeping the forum running, all you regular posters. You've helped tremendously a lot of people. what do you mean ENM, mrob ?
So anyway, i'm getting better, even though i'm still in shock, i'm not enjoying food so much, i sometimes wake up super early. I sometimes begin to cry just like that. For nothing
BTW, this is something i found super toxic on their side : once (towards the end) they told me that i should teach myself to cry less (crying is a bit my emotional response when i feel sad or hurt or overwhelmed). They were hurting me, i was crying, and then i was not supposed to cry. I don't know what is behind that, if it's they couldn't bear to see what they were doing to me, or what, but this was a super turn-off, and that's when i started to really question this person and my ability to sustain this r-ship. it's quite abusive imo
My great achievement those days is noticing i 'm enjoying my own company, not being afraid to be alone and to face my feeling, and going back to exercise. So i'm on the way
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Post by introvert on Jul 6, 2023 15:00:40 GMT
It seems a common theme here to say something along the lines of :
"I could do non-monogamy with the right partner who has good relationship skills...." while choosing the wrong partner who has bad relationship skills and STAYING WITH THEM until that wrong partner breaks the deal, breaks up, etc etc.
I believe this is a huge cop out!!! You won't be able to do healthy mono OR poly until you address your own relationship insecurity at the source, which is in you, and nobody else.
You can't spread your insecurity between multiple partners to attempt to alleviate it, you can't go into a jealousy-provoking dynamic in order to build a callous, you can't blame the insecure partner when your insecure dynamic goes wrong for the duration and then they finally slip out of it.
This whole non-monogamy thing amongst insecures is mind boggling to watch, the amount of justifying, rationalizing, and self deception is equally met with the amount of pain, disillusionment, and disappointment.
It's great to learn and make progress from it, but I think it's wise to stop looking at the other person as the source of the breakdown. These situations, as described, seem unhealthy as heck from the get-go.
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 6, 2023 18:58:33 GMT
Although in the first year, they managed to ruin every encounter i could have had by having fits of jealousy that made it impossible for me to go for it without disrespecting them ans their feelings. I feel for you, and have had more than one "casual" person pull this on me. To me this is emotional manipulation, and making you responsible for their feelings. I think it is a natural knee jerk to go oh my partner doesn't like this so I won't do it, but that isn't being fair to you. I think this is a good opportunity to examine if you are missing some boundaries. It is NOT disrespectful of them and their feelings to still go on these dates even if they are throwing a fit. It is all about how you communicate around it. You can express curiosity towards their experience, ask them questions, etc. you could even go so far as to point out the jealousy and ask if there is something you can do to make them feel more secure or it the dynamic needs to change. But overall, you are not responsible for their feelings and they do need to do a degree of introspection and self=soothing. If they can't handle open/poly/ENM that is on them to realize and ask you to change the dynamic. |
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Jul 6, 2023 20:00:20 GMT
@introvert : to each and every one their own pace. I tried and maybe realised it wasn't very compatible with my own insecurities, or maybe i will want to try again with the knowledge i got from this experience. And again and again. Or not. I think the problem with r-ships whether you choose to read it through the lens of the AT or without is that it's a complicated chemistry. I am not throwing the blame on the other person entirely. Believe it or not, i'm also addressing my own shit, and i'm trying hard, and i just got this heavy FA blow right in the face, so right now, i'm still trying to make sense of it. Then, there will come a second step, then another. Same as i did with previous romantic failures. Nevertheless, i am noticing some change in my approach, and reactions, and i feel i'm getting more secure. I will satisfy myself with that for now, and go my own pace. But thanks for your words and advices, i'm listening to everything, and i'm most certainly making something out of it
cherrycola i am probably missing some boundaries, although i won't stand everything and i can react pretty fast if i notice a clear imbalance (which is now totally the case). it's not working so well if the imbalance is not so obvious. Then i can last with the need to check if i'm being abused or not. At the moment, they were complaining about me, and didn't seem to be interested so much themselves in seeing somebody apart from me, so it seemed "fair" except for the part that they were advocating for non-monogamy, but not allowing it in reality. i definitely have a people-pleaser mentality, and have a kind of tendancy to put myself in the service of others which i have to reflect upon.
I definitely think that they have a kind of crazy tendancy to think i should be a mindreader and guess what their needs are, and i should be responsible for their needs and feelings. At least, they found ways of punishing me if i didn't prove i got the hint and acted to get their needs met or to address them
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Post by introvert on Jul 6, 2023 21:52:39 GMT
@introvert : to each and every one their own pace. I tried and maybe realised it wasn't very compatible with my own insecurities, or maybe i will want to try again with the knowledge i got from this experience. And again and again. Or not. I think the problem with r-ships whether you choose to read it through the lens of the AT or without is that it's a complicated chemistry. I am not throwing the blame on the other person entirely. Believe it or not, i'm also addressing my own shit, and i'm trying hard, and i just got this heavy FA blow right in the face, so right now, i'm still trying to make sense of it. Then, there will come a second step, then another. Same as i did with previous romantic failures. Nevertheless, i am noticing some change in my approach, and reactions, and i feel i'm getting more secure. I will satisfy myself with that for now, and go my own pace. But thanks for your words and advices, i'm listening to everything, and i'm most certainly making something out of it
cherrycola i am probably missing some boundaries, although i won't stand everything and i can react pretty fast if i notice a clear imbalance (which is now totally the case). it's not working so well if the imbalance is not so obvious. Then i can last with the need to check if i'm being abused or not. At the moment, they were complaining about me, and didn't seem to be interested so much themselves in seeing somebody apart from me, so it seemed "fair" except for the part that they were advocating for non-monogamy, but not allowing it in reality. i definitely have a people-pleaser mentality, and have a kind of tendancy to put myself in the service of others which i have to reflect upon.
I definitely think that they have a kind of crazy tendancy to think i should be a mindreader and guess what their needs are, and i should be responsible for their needs and feelings. At least, they found ways of punishing me if i didn't prove i got the hint and acted to get their needs met or to address them
Just to be clear, I do see your progress in this and know you aren't throwing all of the blame completely on him... but I do see a tone in the thread about what a bad he guy is in this... but if you are poly with someone who is jealous from the start, then that's a huge red flag, and one that a secure person in a poly relationship would heed. I have been very transparent about my own process of try, fail, try again, do better but still not quite there... it took me a series of relationships to put it all together so I'm not critical of that. I'm just skeptical of the poly thing when there is such apparent insecurity going on is all. |
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 7, 2023 2:37:10 GMT
I can completely see how it felt fair to stop dating because at the time they weren't and then it feels like a kick to the ribs when they finally find someone they are interested in. It's kinda like hey you changed the dynamic on me! It's a very important lesson for us people pleasers to really examine our actions and only do things because we 100% want to do. So if we want to stop dating other people but no conversation occurs to confirm that is the new status quo then when (not if) they start to date again, we can't really say "I stopped dating for you" even if we did because we were giving into their emotional immaturity. Because in that situation, it turns into, I stopped dating because I lack boundaries and wanted to "make you happy" or "make things smoother" between us and instead of having a hard conversation or maybe even having to leave this dynamic I crossed my own boundaries.
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 7, 2023 2:50:09 GMT
It seems a common theme here to say something along the lines of : "I could do non-monogamy with the right partner who has good relationship skills...." while choosing the wrong partner who has bad relationship skills and STAYING WITH THEM until that wrong partner breaks the deal, breaks up, etc etc. I believe this is a huge cop out!!! You won't be able to do healthy mono OR poly until you address your own relationship insecurity at the source, which is in you, and nobody else. You can't spread your insecurity between multiple partners to attempt to alleviate it, you can't go into a jealousy-provoking dynamic in order to build a callous, you can't blame the insecure partner when your insecure dynamic goes wrong for the duration and then they finally slip out of it. This whole non-monogamy thing amongst insecures is mind boggling to watch, the amount of justifying, rationalizing, and self deception is equally met with the amount of pain, disillusionment, and disappointment. It's great to learn and make progress from it, but I think it's wise to stop looking at the other person as the source of the breakdown. These situations, as described, seem unhealthy as heck from the get-go. Poly to me is just relationship on HARD mode, yet on the surface people think it's actually easier with less responsibility to others, and that it is a safer way to get needs met because you can go around getting different needs from different people. Don't have to put all your eggs in one basket. One man told me he is poly because once he falls in love with a women and gets attached, they always gets sick of him, and leave. Then he has to start all over with someone new. So if he overlaps them, he is safe. Ironically it was that very attitude that was causing women to leave him. I see so many people in my own life even, avoid difficult feelings and conversations by just saying LETS BE OPEN! Without actually understanding the dynamics involved. I think it appealed to me because I was EXTREMELY emotionally unavailable so I needed partners who had other ways to get emotional connections outside of me. I want to say it was a self aware cop out? Like I had so little to give anyone, but I also wanted some companionship. But that isn't fair to most people, and people are terrible listeners. Even if you warn them ahead of time, it's going to attract APs who think you are just making things up or they can change you with love. So I guess it felt safe to find someone who had a primary partner and wouldn't be phased by me being emotionally drained. Yet I never managed to find someone like that, who was able to practice it in a healthyish way. |
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KAI
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by KAI on Jul 7, 2023 7:41:01 GMT
@introvert : to each and every one their own pace. I tried and maybe realised it wasn't very compatible with my own insecurities, or maybe i will want to try again with the knowledge i got from this experience. And again and again. Or not. I think the problem with r-ships whether you choose to read it through the lens of the AT or without is that it's a complicated chemistry. I am not throwing the blame on the other person entirely. Believe it or not, i'm also addressing my own shit, and i'm trying hard, and i just got this heavy FA blow right in the face, so right now, i'm still trying to make sense of it. Then, there will come a second step, then another. Same as i did with previous romantic failures. Nevertheless, i am noticing some change in my approach, and reactions, and i feel i'm getting more secure. I will satisfy myself with that for now, and go my own pace. But thanks for your words and advices, i'm listening to everything, and i'm most certainly making something out of it
cherrycola i am probably missing some boundaries, although i won't stand everything and i can react pretty fast if i notice a clear imbalance (which is now totally the case). it's not working so well if the imbalance is not so obvious. Then i can last with the need to check if i'm being abused or not. At the moment, they were complaining about me, and didn't seem to be interested so much themselves in seeing somebody apart from me, so it seemed "fair" except for the part that they were advocating for non-monogamy, but not allowing it in reality. i definitely have a people-pleaser mentality, and have a kind of tendancy to put myself in the service of others which i have to reflect upon.
I definitely think that they have a kind of crazy tendancy to think i should be a mindreader and guess what their needs are, and i should be responsible for their needs and feelings. At least, they found ways of punishing me if i didn't prove i got the hint and acted to get their needs met or to address them
Just to be clear, I do see your progress in this and know you aren't throwing all of the blame completely on him... but I do see a tone in the thread about what a bad he guy is in this... but if you are poly with someone who is jealous from the start, then that's a huge red flag, and one that a secure person in a poly relationship would heed. I have been very transparent about my own process of try, fail, try again, do better but still not quite there... it took me a series of relationships to put it all together so I'm not critical of that. I'm just skeptical of the poly thing when there is such apparent insecurity going on is all.
Yes, i hear you Introvert. And it's probably a bit true. I have this tone. Now that i think about it, it might be a strategy on my side to make sure i'm not going back in the same patterns with them. I might be trying to get rid of my feelings of love towards them by seeing all the bad. They also are an amazing human being, that is trying hard (but not in the righ direction i think), and i definitely have a responsibilty in the dance. But i'm pretty sure i'm more advanced in the path, just noting here all the places where it's the case to remind me that this is a dangerous and certainly very unpleasant road in the long run, and that i would have to take a lot on my shoulders and sacrifice my mental health, and endure a lot of the bad to get a bit of the good without even being certain that they will not suddenly decide that that they're done or pull up some of their drama in the most unexpected moment. So yeah, i am villainizing them.
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