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Post by kristyrose on Feb 13, 2018 20:35:30 GMT
What you are saying is very true. It is about giving less attention to the negative and more to the positive. Of course it's not as easy as it sounds, and this is not the only method to make things better, but it's definitely one important tool. Some therapists emphasize the fact that self-love among people like AP's is not exactly lacking, that it is there to begin with, like for everyone else, but that it is somehow buried deep down and inhibited by all the negative self-talk. So it is truly about nourishing that little flame that would like to shine brighter inside our heart (I'm getting poetic now...). Regarding the misunderstanding, I came across the same concept very recently. I don't know if any of you have gotten those ads on Facebook recently about Artie Wu from Preside Meditation. I bought his 25 USD package with a series of audio files. One session was very interesting, precisely about this concept of original misunderstanding, during our childhood. For APs (perhaps for avoidants as well?), we learned very early on that love was conditional. I will only receive love IF. If I do this, if I do that....But this is actually a misunderstanding. Our parents did love us somehow. Even if they treated us badly. I still have a hard time accepting this but I am getting there. But because of their own attachment issues, their love for us was perceived by us as being conditional. The guy's point was that our parents would still love us even if we didn't do the things that we thought we had to do in order to be loved in return. Hence the misunderstanding. This is what we need to learn to differentiate. Also happy to have found my way here  This concept is different for me. I have been bound my whole life by the belief that my parents loved me despite the abuse. I was bound to believing that was what love was. That is how I experienced love because that's what I received as a child, therefore I chose people that "loved" me in this way which is not love at all. It was only recently that I was released from this (through therapy) by the realization that my parents did not love me, did not care for me. This was validated for me and I am now released to see that it's not love. Love is something I didn't get or experience growing up. Now I am free to find out what love really is and it will be a brand new (better) experience for me. No idea if this is about avoidance. It's just my own experience of growing awareness and newfound freedom. Mary, I hate to read this about what you went through, but I'm really impressed and amazed at how you are working through it and looking to experience love. I'm sending you a big hug! |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 13, 2018 20:42:47 GMT
I see where you are coming from. I was following the same path of understanding before, but I probably was not as affected as you were by bad relationships in adulhood. Only once was I in a toxic relationship. I think I managed to recognize a while ago to steer away from such toxic relationships, where "love" is not love at all, but something which clearly looks like the type of "love" we received as a child.
I am coming to some sort of resolution with my mum, who is still alive, by accepting how she may have loved me a certain way, despite it being inconsistent and conditional (in my head at least). With my dad, who died while I was still a child and was clearly abusive, I'm trying to come to terms with it by looking at him as a victim of his own attachment system, which was developed during his childhood. He had also been abused (a lot more severely than he abused me). Perhaps this is the path of forgiveness, or something close to it. I'm not sure if this is right, I'm experimenting with it, but I definitely understand the way you did it. Actually, our different approaches may not be that dissimilar, because what I am looking for ("true love") is obviously something very different from what I received. I can very clearly tell the difference between these two kinds of love.
Perhaps telling the difference and consciously not going for toxic relationships is the first step towards self-love?
Great to hear that it feels like newbound freedom to you, this is an important goal, no matter how we get there!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 21:30:00 GMT
What you are saying is very true. It is about giving less attention to the negative and more to the positive. Of course it's not as easy as it sounds, and this is not the only method to make things better, but it's definitely one important tool. Some therapists emphasize the fact that self-love among people like AP's is not exactly lacking, that it is there to begin with, like for everyone else, but that it is somehow buried deep down and inhibited by all the negative self-talk. So it is truly about nourishing that little flame that would like to shine brighter inside our heart (I'm getting poetic now...). Regarding the misunderstanding, I came across the same concept very recently. I don't know if any of you have gotten those ads on Facebook recently about Artie Wu from Preside Meditation. I bought his 25 USD package with a series of audio files. One session was very interesting, precisely about this concept of original misunderstanding, during our childhood. For APs (perhaps for avoidants as well?), we learned very early on that love was conditional. I will only receive love IF. If I do this, if I do that....But this is actually a misunderstanding. Our parents did love us somehow. Even if they treated us badly. I still have a hard time accepting this but I am getting there. But because of their own attachment issues, their love for us was perceived by us as being conditional. The guy's point was that our parents would still love us even if we didn't do the things that we thought we had to do in order to be loved in return. Hence the misunderstanding. This is what we need to learn to differentiate. Also happy to have found my way here This concept is different for me. I have been bound my whole life by the belief that my parents loved me despite the abuse. I was bound to believing that was what love was. That is how I experienced love because that's what I received as a child, therefore I chose people that "loved" me in this way which is not love at all. It was only recently that I was released from this (through therapy) by the realization that my parents did not love me, did not care for me. This was validated for me and I am now released to see that it's not love. Love is something I didn't get or experience growing up. Now I am free to find out what love really is and it will be a brand new (better) experience for me. No idea if this is about avoidance. It's just my own experience of growing awareness and newfound freedom. i relate to this a lot mary. my father i believe is DA and was also absent. my mother has mental illness. so, i did not experience love like i now understand other people did. the poem was written after many years of recovery, and began with me looking at the immolated remains, the bones of my house. my way of coping was to find inner comfort, paltry as that was at times. paltry for a long time. however. my inner sanctum has brought me much peace and renewal. i was amazed to look at that poem and see the heart of a DA, now that i know what that is! my childhood was violent. i saw blood on the walls of my home. as a child, i was asked sometimes, to intervene. to help on of my parents, to assist them in their struggle. i once was so terrified i went to my bed and i felt it was trying to dump me out! there was no comfort to be found. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 21:33:37 GMT
I see where you are coming from. I was following the same path of understanding before, but I probably was not as affected as you were by bad relationships in adulhood. Only once was I in a toxic relationship. I think I managed to recognize a while ago to steer away from such toxic relationships, where "love" is not love at all, but something which clearly looks like the type of "love" we received as a child. I am coming to some sort of resolution with my mum, who is still alive, by accepting how she may have loved me a certain way, despite it being inconsistent and conditional (in my head at least). With my dad, who died while I was still a child and was clearly abusive, I'm trying to come to terms with it by looking at him as a victim of his own attachment system, which was developed during his childhood. He had also been abused (a lot more severely than he abused me). Perhaps this is the path of forgiveness, or something close to it. I'm not sure if this is right, I'm experimenting with it, but I definitely understand the way you did it. Actually, our different approaches may not be that dissimilar, because what I am looking for ("true love") is obviously something very different from what I received. I can very clearly tell the difference between these two kinds of love. Perhaps telling the difference and consciously not going for toxic relationships is the first step towards self-love? Great to hear that it feels like newbound freedom to you, this is an important goal, no matter how we get there! I definitely think non avoidants will come to certain realizations sooner, because I don't feel the pain of my past. Yes, I have PTSD, but it's not a constant pain. My avoidance has managed my PTSD, so it comes and goes and it's not crippling as it is for some. Pain is the indicator that something is wrong. Without that, it's so much harder to even realize something is wrong. We all may take a different path, but getting there is definitely the goal |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 14, 2018 0:38:29 GMT
Self esteem is a huge factor in how well you cope with a breakup.
Your ability to detach from emotions and get on with life is a huge factor.
Whether or not you analyse and ruminate is a huge factor.
Whether or not you have the ex on a pedestal.
How reliant you are on the ex for validation.
I think the AP is the perfect storm For struggling with a breakup. As an FA I have moment of this and it feels absolutely terrible. My avoidant side then kicks in and I totally disassociate and almost can't remember the person at all (which is nicer).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 0:56:17 GMT
sometimes i think it is good to act “as if” also.
i don’t know if would help an Anxious person , but maybe you could try acting as if you are over and done and a stronger wiser person for having grown, even if you don’t feel it. and then talk and act that way, practice it?
i am thinking not of repressing feelings but not giving them free reign over the whole day, not ruminating.
like, go to the store as a total badass, independent, toxic-ex free, booty shakin healed person?
and pick out all your favorite foods because that’s how you roll?
and throw some hip into it? lol i am being funny but i mean it, maybe fake it till you make it to give yourself a sense of it?
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 15:17:44 GMT
Self esteem is a huge factor in how well you cope with a breakup. Your ability to detach from emotions and get on with life is a huge factor. Whether or not you analyse and ruminate is a huge factor. Whether or not you have the ex on a pedestal. How reliant you are on the ex for validation. I think the AP is the perfect storm For struggling with a breakup. As an FA I have moment of this and it feels absolutely terrible. My avoidant side then kicks in and I totally disassociate and almost can't remember the person at all (which is nicer). I so agree with what you wrote. It makes sense that breakups are worse for APs, because we have low self-esteem and deal with anxiety on a daily basis (in a relationship or not). And everything else you listed. Being fully or partly avoidant probably lessens the pain quite a lot. Does it mean that avoidants generally have better self-esteem than APs? Is it on par with secure people? |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 15:24:45 GMT
sometimes i think it is good to act “as if” also. i don’t know if would help an Anxious person , but maybe you could try acting as if you are over and done and a stronger wiser person for having grown, even if you don’t feel it. and then talk and act that way, practice it? i am thinking not of repressing feelings but not giving them free reign over the whole day, not ruminating. like, go to the store as a total badass, independent, toxic-ex free, booty shakin healed person? and pick out all your favorite foods because that’s how you roll? and throw some hip into it? lol i am being funny but i mean it, maybe fake it till you make it to give yourself a sense of it? It's a type of advice often given in the general self-help department, but I don't think this can really be applied to anxious persons. To one small degree, yes, but when you do that, the "who are you trying to fool?" thought takes over and ruins everything. Not ruminating also sounds like great advice on paper, but there is no on/off switch, unfortunately. ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) is more advisable in this respect, as it tries to teach you to live with your negative thoughts, by observing them and adopting a non-judgmental attitude to them. The aim is not to get rid of them, but to detach from them by giving them equal neutral attention, a bit like observing the weather. It is closely related to mindfulness practices. The goal is to alleviate secondary unneccessary pain. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:32:39 GMT
sometimes i think it is good to act “as if” also. i don’t know if would help an Anxious person , but maybe you could try acting as if you are over and done and a stronger wiser person for having grown, even if you don’t feel it. and then talk and act that way, practice it? i am thinking not of repressing feelings but not giving them free reign over the whole day, not ruminating. like, go to the store as a total badass, independent, toxic-ex free, booty shakin healed person? and pick out all your favorite foods because that’s how you roll? and throw some hip into it? lol i am being funny but i mean it, maybe fake it till you make it to give yourself a sense of it? It's a type of advice often given in the general self-help department, but I don't think this can really be applied to anxious persons. To one small degree, yes, but when you do that, the "who are you trying to fool?" thought takes over and ruins everything. Not ruminating also sounds like great advice on paper, but there is no on/off switch, unfortunately. ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) is more advisable in this respect, as it tries to teach you to live with your negative thoughts, by observing them and adopting a non-judgmental attitude to them. The aim is not to get rid of them, but to detach from them by giving them equal neutral attention, a bit like observing the weather. It is closely related to mindfulness practices. The goal is to alleviate secondary unneccessary pain. i get it. i’m so sorry for how this must hurt. as i’ve said, none of us choose attachment disorders, they are inflicted on us by deep wounds when we were tiny kids. i am glad we are all here finding camaraderie and support, and thank you for helping me understand the other side more. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:34:25 GMT
Self esteem is a huge factor in how well you cope with a breakup. Your ability to detach from emotions and get on with life is a huge factor. Whether or not you analyse and ruminate is a huge factor. Whether or not you have the ex on a pedestal. How reliant you are on the ex for validation. I think the AP is the perfect storm For struggling with a breakup. As an FA I have moment of this and it feels absolutely terrible. My avoidant side then kicks in and I totally disassociate and almost can't remember the person at all (which is nicer). I so agree with what you wrote. It makes sense that breakups are worse for APs, because we have low self-esteem and deal with anxiety on a daily basis (in a relationship or not). And everything else you listed. Being fully or partly avoidant probably lessens the pain quite a lot. Does it mean that avoidants generally have better self-esteem than APs? Is it on par with secure people? This is how I see it regarding DAs. I don't understand the FA side. I think I have more confidence created by other areas of my life, but not relationships. Higher confidence leads to higher self esteem, however the self esteem is not complete. I think DAs can have higher self esteem if they have excelled in other areas of life (there have been reports that people with low anxiety are more successful), so they may have higher self esteem than APs, but lower than a secure. A big factor regarding getting over breakups for me is that I am not reliant on others for validation or emotion. This is both a pro and a con. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 15:36:50 GMT
No offense taken, tgat, I know that you didn't mean to say this in a hurtful way. ANd you didn't, really, your tone was actually very funny I just wish it was that easy! But yeah, it's always interesting for all of us on each end of the spectrum to describe the effects of our wounds to reach a better mutual understanding! And you're welcome! |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 15:42:49 GMT
A big factor regarding getting over breakups for me is that I am not reliant on others for validation or emotion. This is both a pro and a con. My brother is DA (pretty sure of it), and have seemingly high self-esteem, especially derived from the carreer department, but I can see past it, I know he still has a void inside. Workaholism and alcoholism are often (always?) ways to shield a wound inside ourselves. It still sounds less painful in day to day life to be DA rather than AP.... What is the inconvenient of not relying on others for validation or emotion? Secure people don't seem to need it either and are "fine". |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:43:49 GMT
No offense taken, tgat, I know that you didn't mean to say this in a hurtful way. ANd you didn't, really, your tone was actually very funny I just wish it was that easy! But yeah, it's always interesting for all of us on each end of the spectrum to describe the effects of our wounds to reach a better mutual understanding! And you're welcome! i wish we could all share our best traits with each other, like “here, i’ve got too much independence going on- here, take some and give me some of your vulnerability. thanks babe!” 😁💕 |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 15:46:03 GMT
Hahaha, yes, let's start trading those traits we want the most! You can get some of my empathy and good conversation skills if you like! (not saying that you in particular are missing these, but I think DAs in general). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:49:29 GMT
🤗
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