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Post by mrob on Apr 25, 2018 18:37:01 GMT
Hmm, so I mostly date other women and haven't been on the dating sites in 15 years, but surely people who don't want all that nonsense can still meet other people who don't either? Is what you're posting above true even on the sites you pay to use? Or could you put something in your profile to only attract people on a similar wavelength? I just can't think that the majority of people want to play all those games. Maybe I'm naive... Some people are very patient in their game playing. Either that, or they’re deceiving themselves, in denial, or unaware. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 20:49:57 GMT
I agree with you, all 4 points, and although I feel horrible for the ladies, I had a good laugh...sorry, these men are awful to the point of ridiculous!   I have heard similar stories, and witnessed some prime cut a$$holes in action myself, I'll share them, I reckon a thread should be started about dates from hell. In the end, we need to laugh at it, as we have to take back the power and define our experience on our own terms. I find that laughing at these men and situations diminish their impact on me. I refuse to be cowed.  I hate manipulation as well, but look, the other side does it all the time. This is not about the battle of the sexes, but we simply do not know whom we are dealing with. In my professional life, I have come into contact with enough hideous, powerful, cunning a$$holes to have grown cautious and careful about people. Maybe a better word is to date intelligently, shrewdly, with an eye out for anomalies, even on occasion testing our dates. This is where knowing some male psychology is eminently helpful, we are both different, and we think and behave differently. Some dates who weren't right for me have become casual friends. It's when they let their guard down that I got to see how they think, pillars of the community. Basically, the people they "invest" in are first of all, their offsprings, and then their former spouses, because they are the mother of their kids and they had a sentimental history with the women. When they seek a girlfriend post-divorce, they are looking for women who have their own steady good income, and who expect nothing more than dates and sex. They do not want to "invest" in such partners. I don't know if it's mostly DAs, but...anyways, these are men I have rejected, phew....!! Thanks to scheme00's videos, I came across this one that has a great evolutionary perspective on this behavior: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQrFBOyDs0 |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 25, 2018 21:19:12 GMT
Sooo....I just want to make sure I understand your perspective about the "not wanting pledges of undying love"....are you saying the girl should not expect that from you until you are comfortable...or that you don't want them from her either? If you are pledging undying love, or even looking that way on the second date, I’m very worried. I’m amazed at the amount of women that want to jump into a settled arrangement quickly. Most have come out of long term relationships where they’ve been grunted at for the past few years, then as Yasmin said, messed about by blokes who just want sex, and they still want to settle down quickly, or at all? I don’t understand.j yasmin . I know you’re not directly referring to me, but I acted like an asshole in my marriage. I did things and said things that I wish I could take back. I was a manboy. Maybe not to the extent of some, but I believe that unless a man takes his family seriously, looks after kids in a committed way, then there is no reason for him to ever grow up. Look around, it doesn’t take much to see most blokes aren’t that far up the evolutionary path. The last 50 years has left us behind, and not sure how to catch up. So, when you say blokes are assholes - thanks social circle - asshole is a (pardon the pun) a crap term. There just has to be more to it. Thank you for the honest answer....I think far too often, we are not honest with each other for fear of hurting the other person with our truth....that just leads to pushing the hurt feelings further out. I admit that I said the "l" word on the first date with B....he was good and honest enough to say I "l" you as a friend (we had been friends for 6 months). It took 3.5 months before he said it back. I am not good at modulation of feelings....I tend to be pretty "all in" or "all out". I understand that that can be pretty darn scary....believe me, I read all the articles that men like easy, confident and fun women...emphasis on easy=chill. The thing is...I can't fake chill...i am passionate. I guess that puts me at a disadvantage for dating. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 21:35:02 GMT
Sooo....I just want to make sure I understand your perspective about the "not wanting pledges of undying love"....are you saying the girl should not expect that from you until you are comfortable...or that you don't want them from her either? If you are pledging undying love, or even looking that way on the second date, I’m very worried. I’m amazed at the amount of women that want to jump into a settled arrangement quickly. Most have come out of long term relationships where they’ve been grunted at for the past few years, then as Yasmin said, messed about by blokes who just want sex, and they still want to settle down quickly, or at all? I don’t understand. yasmin . I know you’re not directly referring to me, but I acted like an asshole in my marriage. I did things and said things that I wish I could take back. I was a manboy. Maybe not to the extent of some, but I believe that unless a man takes his family seriously, looks after kids in a committed way, then there is no reason for him to ever grow up. Look around, it doesn’t take much to see most blokes aren’t that far up the evolutionary path. The last 50 years has left us behind, and not sure how to catch up. So, when you say blokes are assholes - thanks social circle - asshole is a (pardon the pun) a crap term. There just has to be more to it. I agree with you. One guy said he loved me after the third date. There is no possible way that's love as he doesn't even know me. I have no idea what the rush is with some people. "Asshole" is a subjective term. I have a friend who called her bf an asshole and broke up with him cause he yelled at her twice. I mean...it was an argument, who doesn't yell sometimes. We are all a product of our personal experience. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 22:40:49 GMT
I agree with you. One guy said he loved me after the third date. There is no possible way that's love as he doesn't even know me. I have no idea what the rush is with some people. "Asshole" is a subjective term. I have a friend who called her bf an asshole and broke up with him cause he yelled at her twice. I mean...it was an argument, who doesn't yell sometimes. We are all a product of our personal experience. I get "rushed" alot to go to my date's apartment after dinner dates, and I suspect it's not really because they want to show me their music collection...or to have tea...  People assume that it must be great to get hit on, but actually, you don't know if it's a guy who seriously likes you and would like to get closer or if he's really only looking out for his No. 1. I think all women fear becoming an opportunistic man's Plan B, the so-called "lottery", in the video I posted. Thus I understand the trepidation as expressed in yasmin's post. I wouldn't easily use the word a$$hole on just anyone like your friend, it's a nuclear insult  , but I'm aware that some of the people I was involved with on some projects were blatantly corrupt. I won't go into detail and I didn't see the black and white evidence but it's pretty obvious. So I'm looking at these men knowing that they had no qualms about corruption, they were married, having affairs or divorced and dating, and I shudder to think that it is possible that I will encounter dates who can be like these crooks, and statistically, it's likely. Another light example to buttress "yasmin's theories"  , at a group event for singles I attended where all of us paid a flat dinner rate for a couscous dinner where the food arrived on large plates, skewers of lamb, beef balls and baked chicken together with vegetables, to be split among four for each large plate, the only man out of the 4 of us on my end of the table immediately grabbed about 50% of the meat to heap on his plate while the other 3 women looked on in disbelief. He went on to grab more for his date, who was sitting next to me. She actually told him perhaps the other two ladies would like some! I ended up with two chicken wings and unlimited couscous. My friend, who was sitting next to me, complained that the guy sitting across from her was heaping all the meat on his plate too, leaving her with nothing much to eat. She was quite upset, hissing "Peasants!". As we eyed the heaps of animal carcasses on their plates, I told her that if these men were to be on the Titanic, they would be throwing the women and children off the lifeboat so they could get on, and at the image of that we started giggling and all was well. I don't know, perhaps that wasn't a$$hole behavior, certainly his date happily went back with him. I just can't bring myself to like such men. |
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Post by yasmin on Apr 25, 2018 23:33:01 GMT
Sooo....I just want to make sure I understand your perspective about the "not wanting pledges of undying love"....are you saying the girl should not expect that from you until you are comfortable...or that you don't want them from her either? If you are pledging undying love, or even looking that way on the second date, I’m very worried. I’m amazed at the amount of women that want to jump into a settled arrangement quickly. Most have come out of long term relationships where they’ve been grunted at for the past few years, then as Yasmin said, messed about by blokes who just want sex, and they still want to settle down quickly, or at all? I don’t understand. yasmin . I know you’re not directly referring to me, but I acted like an asshole in my marriage. I did things and said things that I wish I could take back. I was a manboy. Maybe not to the extent of some, but I believe that unless a man takes his family seriously, looks after kids in a committed way, then there is no reason for him to ever grow up. Look around, it doesn’t take much to see most blokes aren’t that far up the evolutionary path. The last 50 years has left us behind, and not sure how to catch up. So, when you say blokes are assholes - thanks social circle - asshole is a (pardon the pun) a crap term. There just has to be more to it. To be honest, I don't sense even a shred of asshole vibe off you on any of your posts  Actually, I really like you a lot. I think you're not perfect (like everyone) but that you're kind and thoughtful and you (even in your moments) think about how someone else might feel and try and do the right thing. Actually - if you lived hear me, I'd date you! I like the FA thing (familiar to me) and I love the way you don't try and dump your BS onto someone else. I also don't have problems with men not growing up, weirdly, I find quirks and weaknesses really endearing in people but what gets my goat about the dating market right now is the really rude behavior like ghosting, lying about intentions and more or less acting like the way someone else feels is totally unimportant (women and men do this). So when I say asshole, it's really indicative of someone who just behaves like a jerk. Not because they have insecure attachment, but just because they're not a good person. |
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Post by yasmin on Apr 25, 2018 23:40:12 GMT
Hmm, so I mostly date other women and haven't been on the dating sites in 15 years, but surely people who don't want all that nonsense can still meet other people who don't either? Is what you're posting above true even on the sites you pay to use? Or could you put something in your profile to only attract people on a similar wavelength? I just can't think that the majority of people want to play all those games. Maybe I'm naive... Some people are very patient in their game playing. Either that, or they’re deceiving themselves, in denial, or unaware. I am not making a word of this story up.... a few years ago this man (respectable human being, a doctor, nice family) asked me out. I said "no" because he was too young (8 years my junior) and he continued to ask me out for close to a year. Constantly messaging me or calling asking me to just go for a drink and the age didn't matter. Fast forward a little and he helped me out in the middle of the night with a medical emergency and stayed awake the whole night making sure I was okay etc. and after that sweetness I decided to go on a date with him. We dated for maybe 3 weeks, during which he was crazily into me, gushing about how happy he was, introducing me to all his friends and I started to think seriously about committing to the relationship despite his age - and then he out of the blue told me he wasn't ready for a relationship (??) and was worried about the age difference (??) and pretty much right away started dating someone 15 years younger than me. I don't think this is just "changing your mind" or "chemistry missing" - it's more about the lengths some men will go to to take a woman they find very sexy to their bed. It's a horrible thing to say, but the pure drive a guy can feel to have sex with a woman if he finds her attractive enough will and can eclipse everything else. I don't think they consciously go through deceptions of this level but I do think they can deceive themselves because they're so caught up in the hormones. This is a massive turn off for me in dating. Maybe being FA makes it 1000 x worse, but I pretty much feel like men would say / do anything to get me into bed. Maybe men feel the same way about being forced into relationships? |
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Post by mrob on Apr 26, 2018 0:11:00 GMT
Basically, the people they "invest" in are first of all, their offsprings, and then their former spouses, because they are the mother of their kids and they had a sentimental history with the women.
When they seek a girlfriend post-divorce, they are looking for women who have their own steady good income, and who expect nothing more than dates and sex. They do not want to "invest" in such partners.
Ouch. That one hurt.
Truth is there’s actually not much left to “invest” after that. I do have a good relationship with my ex wife. We do do things together as a family, although it is very business like. If you aren’t financially self supporting, I’m not interested. The fairytale is over. You have to look outside the box for income like I had to. I’ve given up a large slice of income to be with my daughter and look after her. To be there morning and afternoon 50% of the time. Any new partner is going to come in further down the priority order. We’re not in our 20s and fancy free. These are the facts of life. And I would be very suspicious if you’re not doing the same with your family.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 0:35:03 GMT
Ouch. That one hurt. Truth is there’s actually not much left to “invest” after that. I do have a good relationship with my ex wife. We do do things together as a family, although it is very business like. If you aren’t financially self supporting, I’m not interested. The fairytale is over. You have to look outside the box for income like I had to. I’ve given up a large slice of income to be with my daughter and look after her. To be there morning and afternoon 50% of the time. Any new partner is going to come in further down the priority order. We’re not in our 20s and fancy free. These are the facts of life. And I would be very suspicious if you’re not doing the same with your family. When I wrote "invest" in their future partner, I meant it like Bret Weinstein puts it in the video, that they actually place a certain priority with these future partners. It isn't about financial support at all, but as partners or spouses, making plans together, leaning on each other, supporting each other, loving each other. The weird thing is that a lot of DAs see it as a zero sum game - he's giving 50% to kids, 30% to work, 15% to ex, and maybe 5% to girlfriend for dates and sex. It isn't. Not at all. Love is a multiplier, it doesn't divide. It's a faux scarcity mentality. The kids will grow up, busy with their lives, the ex will find a partner. Speaking for myself, I am not looking for a meal ticket, most of us are far beyond this, but to seek someone expansive to grow with, to learn with, to build with, to laugh with, to travel with, to enjoy life with, to fight with, like all the grey haired couples out there holding hands, strolling in quiet contentment. It's not a cynical fairytale, but a proven Pairing Theory, buttressed by Attachment Science, Second Spring, and a reality for the 30% or more married couples out there, middle aged but hearts still free! PS. mrob, just speaking in a friendly intellectual exchange, nothing personal in any way implied. |
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Post by yasmin on Apr 26, 2018 1:06:53 GMT
Hmm...maybe it's just that people in general fresh out of a divorce and all the emotional pain / financial pain and adjustment are not in too much of a hurry to marry again? That's understandable.
But then I don't WANT long term commitment from someone - I just don't want a one night stand or to have the guy sleeping with someone else at the same time
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Post by mrob on Apr 26, 2018 1:13:08 GMT
I just don’t have it, then. All of those priorities require an investment of time to thrive, and time doesn’t multiply. With 22 text messages the other day, I found myself neglecting what I should have been doing. Some things are finite. When I spread myself thinly, important things get missed, and I get really stressed. And, honestly, no relationship is quite worth that.
I think I’ve become the cynic, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 1:26:28 GMT
I just don’t have it, then. All of those priorities require an investment of time to thrive, and time doesn’t multiply. With 22 text messages the other day, I found myself neglecting what I should have been doing. Some things are finite. When I spread myself thinly, important things get missed, and I get really stressed. And, honestly, no relationship is quite worth that. I think I’ve become the cynic, lol. You've got an anxious one there, time with her should feel more like a welcomed break, not stress. And you should feel charged up and expanded after being with her, feeling you have more, not less, for your own life and other commitments. Good feelings are free! Go find them. Good luck with your dating. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Apr 26, 2018 1:56:16 GMT
Curious, what is "second spring"?
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 26, 2018 2:18:19 GMT
I just don’t have it, then. All of those priorities require an investment of time to thrive, and time doesn’t multiply. With 22 text messages the other day, I found myself neglecting what I should have been doing. Some things are finite. When I spread myself thinly, important things get missed, and I get really stressed. And, honestly, no relationship is quite worth that. I think I’ve become the cynic, lol. Wow....I stuck to 1 message a day unless he and I were texting back and forth and even then, it would usually be 3-4 maximum. 22 text messages in a day would be too much for me as well....I have a full time job and texting throughout the day is not possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 2:51:24 GMT
I just don’t have it, then. All of those priorities require an investment of time to thrive, and time doesn’t multiply. With 22 text messages the other day, I found myself neglecting what I should have been doing. Some things are finite. When I spread myself thinly, important things get missed, and I get really stressed. And, honestly, no relationship is quite worth that. I think I’ve become the cynic, lol. I feel you on this. I have a demanding career, children, grandchildren, and friends that require a lot of my time. I could not handle 22 messages a day. 10 a day is pushing my limit unless it's something that's extremely important and then it should be a phone call or in person. I read somewhere 10 a day was average for most committed couples. I do think this speaks to our attachment style, but also, there has to be a balance in life. If a person is spread too thin, it's stressful for anyone. I think there is a danger in trying to accept something that doesn't quite fit, because you know you have an attachment issue. I have tended to do that in the past (thinking I was unreasonable based on what I know of my attachment style) and it never ended well. I don't think you are cynical, I think you are realistic. |
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I have heard similar stories, and witnessed some prime cut a$$holes in action myself, I'll share them, I reckon a thread should be started about dates from hell.
People assume that it must be great to get hit on, but actually, you don't know if it's a guy who seriously likes you and would like to get closer or if he's really only looking out for his No. 1.
, but I'm aware that some of the people I was involved with on some projects were blatantly corrupt. I won't go into detail and I didn't see the black and white evidence but it's pretty obvious. So I'm looking at these men knowing that they had no qualms about corruption, they were married, having affairs or divorced and dating, and I shudder to think that it is possible that I will encounter dates who can be like these crooks, and statistically, it's likely.
, at a group event for singles I attended where all of us paid a flat dinner rate for a couscous dinner where the food arrived on large plates, skewers of lamb, beef balls and baked chicken together with vegetables, to be split among four for each large plate, the only man out of the 4 of us on my end of the table immediately grabbed about 50% of the meat to heap on his plate while the other 3 women looked on in disbelief. He went on to grab more for his date, who was sitting next to me. She actually told him perhaps the other two ladies would like some! I ended up with two chicken wings and unlimited couscous.
Actually, I really like you a lot. I think you're not perfect (like everyone) but that you're kind and thoughtful and you (even in your moments) think about how someone else might feel and try and do the right thing. Actually - if you lived hear me, I'd date you! I like the FA thing (familiar to me) and I love the way you don't try and dump your BS onto someone else.