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Post by BreakingTheSpell on May 17, 2018 14:11:00 GMT
On the same topic, the silence treatment, I will share an experience I had recently. I gave the silence treatment to my new bf, for 48 hours aprox. He triggered me on the phone two nights in a row on very sensitive topics, and we engaged twice in arguments that were left unresolved. As a consequence, I was on a hyper emotional state before going to bed and couldnt fall asleep until very late in the morning, two nights in a row. So I decided that I would not be triggered the following night, and isolated myself from the world and him, by giving him the silence treatment. My first mistake was not to tell him that I was doing this for ME, not to punish him. A mistake that I corrected around 24 hours into the silence treatment period. After the initial rage was gone, I realized that in fact all I wanted was not to be exposed at sensitive topics, I did not want him to suffer. He is my precious sweetheart and the idea of punishing him makes me sick. After 48 hours I felt safe again (or strong again to confront a sensitive topic) and I contacted him back and we broke the silence. When we had our conversation about it, I asked him how he felt during those 48 hours. He said that he did not take it personally because he knows me, although he found it rude that I didnt reply his Good morning text. Point taken, it was rude indeed. On my side, I was torturing myself because I was convinced he was in excruciating pain ( tnr9 I can relate to your words), the same pain that I have felt when my mother would give me the treatment for weeks. He was not. He didnt lose the grip, he gave me space and time and waited patiently. He appreciated that I explained that I was doing this for ME and he allowed me to regulate my own emotions myself, which is something I am learning to do more often and faster. I dont want him to be walking on eggshells not to trigger me on sensitive topics, I would like me to learn how to regulate my emotions better. This was a won battle. One step back and two steps forward. It is not easy being FA. And his secure attitude is the reassurance I need, a solid middle ground to tie my ambivalence to. I am learning to admire this person, instead of looking down on him as I used to do some time ago.
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2018 17:24:07 GMT
Hang on, hang on. So you get to dictate the length of time someone takes to answer a text? Sorry, just the thought of that makes me want to run. Nobody controls me like that. Sometimes I need time to think about what to say, or I’m at work and can’t answer, or some other reason. I’m nobody’s marionette. There you go, kudos for activating my “run for the hills” response!! Oh no!! Well...I guess it is only fair since you triggered me in the other post..LOL.. Just returning the favor. 🙂 ::scrolls back...tries to find post where there was mention of a time limit:: 🤔 Honestly mrob...it would help if you could point out where you were triggered....and no....I was in no way implying a "time limit" (I can however see how such a thing would be extremely triggering for you...and you are right...you are not on anyone else's clock) I was merely speaking to my internal reaction and external response to silence, not judging the silence itself. I know I have a lot of work to do in this space ...but I am glad that it has generated a lot of good dialogue. I think bringing these automatic trupiggers into the light allows them to be examined and worked on. This is just a pattern...and patterns can be changed! 😀
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Post by yasmin on May 17, 2018 17:35:08 GMT
Ha ha, honestly, my therapist is teaching me how to be assertive.
I think I spent so long before thinking all sorts of erroneous things (like having needs is not okay, like having emotions is not okay, like it's okay for people to behave badly and I am supposed to be quiet and pretend it never happened, like it's my job to make everyone else feel good regardless of how it affects me). I was raised for my needs to be completely invisible. In my family, I honestly don't remember ever being asked if I was okay or how my day was. It was so normal for me, I didn't even register it as a problem.
As a child I had no choice but to accept this, but as an adult I actually do have a choice now.
Attachment should be two people who like each other, care about each other and act like it. It's reciprocal and equal. Not dependent on one person's moods and feelings. Not likely to disappear. Not scary.
Whether avoidant, FA or DA I think we all had experiences that showed us attachments were unsafe on some level and we just adapted self protection or behavioral mechanisms to play out our way of seeing the world and relationships. We learned all this from bad attachments.
I am just trying to re-learn all this.
Why should it be okay for someone to ignore you? It isn't okay. I think people should treat us as they want to be treated. If people don't make you feel good you can choose to say no to it.
to be honest, sometimes you can even be completely unreasonable and that's still okay. It's not a requirement to be perfect all the time. M
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Post by yasmin on May 17, 2018 17:37:53 GMT
On the same topic, the silence treatment, I will share an experience I had recently. I gave the silence treatment to my new bf, for 48 hours aprox. He triggered me on the phone two nights in a row on very sensitive topics, and we engaged twice in arguments that were left unresolved. As a consequence, I was on a hyper emotional state before going to bed and couldnt fall asleep until very late in the morning, two nights in a row. So I decided that I would not be triggered the following night, and isolated myself from the world and him, by giving him the silence treatment. My first mistake was not to tell him that I was doing this for ME, not to punish him. A mistake that I corrected around 24 hours into the silence treatment period. After the initial rage was gone, I realized that in fact all I wanted was not to be exposed at sensitive topics, I did not want him to suffer. He is my precious sweetheart and the idea of punishing him makes me sick. After 48 hours I felt safe again (or strong again to confront a sensitive topic) and I contacted him back and we broke the silence. When we had our conversation about it, I asked him how he felt during those 48 hours. He said that he did not take it personally because he knows me, although he found it rude that I didnt reply his Good morning text. Point taken, it was rude indeed. On my side, I was torturing myself because I was convinced he was in excruciating pain ( tnr9 I can relate to your words), the same pain that I have felt when my mother would give me the treatment for weeks. He was not. He didnt lose the grip, he gave me space and time and waited patiently. He appreciated that I explained that I was doing this for ME and he allowed me to regulate my own emotions myself, which is something I am learning to do more often and faster. I dont want him to be walking on eggshells not to trigger me on sensitive topics, I would like me to learn how to regulate my emotions better. This was a won battle. One step back and two steps forward. It is not easy being FA. And his secure attitude is the reassurance I need, a solid middle ground to tie my ambivalence to. I am learning to admire this person, instead of looking down on him as I used to do some time ago. This is such a great example of both needs being respected though. You needed space and silence, but you were able to also be compassionate of how this might make him feel and let him know you just needed the space and you corrected that after 24 hours. It was rude not to reply to the text, but no one requires you to be perfect. Somewhere in this imperfect post is an example of respecting your own needs and wishes without completely disregarding his feelings. I think this sounds positive!
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Post by leavethelighton on May 25, 2018 1:17:50 GMT
I completely agree with leavethelighton in terms of how awful it feels when someone you really want to be close to or love ignores you, withholds or acts like they don't want to be there but I'd really argue that telling yourself not to expect better isn't a resolution. Maybe tell yourself to definitely expect better. Maybe tell yourself you deserve better. . . . . Self love starts with not apologising for having basic needs, boundaries, expectations and feelings. It starts with realising you deserve a lot as everyone does. How hard is it to respond to a message? It's not hard! even if it's to say you don't want to speak any more. Point taken and I totally agree.
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Post by sandiew662 on Jun 1, 2018 19:12:13 GMT
HI YASMIN , and everyone iv chatted to a cpl of you about this today but would like a general viewpoint..yasmin you seem so strong minded i love that you are unshakeable or appear so anyway.... I feel in myself that my.mind is strong and opinionated but my heart is overly soft and needy .. So i just wanted opinions ...seeing that avoidents avoid and do the " silent treatment " as a way to avoid ..should this be understood and empathised ..or is the silent treatment a rude selfish hurtful behaviour that shouldnt be tolerated??? My ex of a year has ignored me for the last 6 mnths because i told him how awful his avoident behaviour was...i tried numerous times to just re instate friendship by texting him which he ignored ...but last week he replied to my request that we cld at some point be friends again..he said a basic yes and i left it at that , saying we should catch up soon. I text him 2 dsts ago to break the ice and hes not responded again altho read the msg. So ??.... should this be allowed for as hes very avoident and just give him space ...or should it not be tolerated and i either just tell him i dont like him ignoring me again ..or shld i not react atall? Im confused...and why would he do this anyway after eventually replying after 6 mnths?
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Post by ocarina on Jun 1, 2018 20:35:23 GMT
HI YASMIN , and everyone iv chatted to a cpl of you about this today but would like a general viewpoint..yasmin you seem so strong minded i love that you are unshakeable or appear so anyway.... I feel in myself that my.mind is strong and opinionated but my heart is overly soft and needy .. So i just wanted opinions ...seeing that avoidents avoid and do the " silent treatment " as a way to avoid ..should this be understood and empathised ..or is the silent treatment a rude selfish hurtful behaviour that shouldnt be tolerated??? My ex of a year has ignored me for the last 6 mnths because i told him how awful his avoident behaviour was...i tried numerous times to just re instate friendship by texting him which he ignored ...but last week he replied to my request that we cld at some point be friends again..he said a basic yes and i left it at that , saying we should catch up soon. I text him 2 dsts ago to break the ice and hes not responded again altho read the msg. So ??.... should this be allowed for as hes very avoident and just give him space ...or should it not be tolerated and i either just tell him i dont like him ignoring me again ..or shld i not react atall? Im confused...and why would he do this anyway after eventually replying after 6 mnths? Apologies I am not Yasmin.... but as her attachment style twin, maybe this might help. None of what he thinks or why or how you should react matters here. What does matter is how you feel - it doesn't matter why he has ignored this or what you should say in response. What is important is how you feel - there's no right or wrong, but what are you trying to get out of this interaction? How do you feel when he ignores you again and again? I assume from what you're written you feel pretty fed up in which case you need to acknowledge this to yourself and then act by either ignoring him (in order to be kind to yourself) or briefly engage to tell him what you don't like and then leave it at that. It needs to be all about you and how you really feel - not about the whys and what you "should" say. Thinking otherwise will tie yourself in horrible emotional knots.
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Post by sandiew662 on Jun 1, 2018 22:57:49 GMT
Hi ocarina and thankyou for that ...i know what your saying and yes i do feel rejected over and over when he ignores me and the thing is he kniws thus which makes me wonder why i think im losing something valuable, this man caused me so much confusion and pain, but i let myself down too because i allowed it... I suppose i struggle to stick by a decision as in 1. Should i be compassionate and supportive as he obviously has issues..so i shld be there even if he behaves badly . Or 2. I should stop making excuses for him because he knows hes hurting me but chooses to carry on so i deserve better! So i should walk away ...im torn as to what the secure reaction would be ..rise above and have empathy or walk away.
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Post by ocarina on Jun 2, 2018 7:28:10 GMT
Hi ocarina and thankyou for that ...i know what your saying and yes i do feel rejected over and over when he ignores me and the thing is he kniws thus which makes me wonder why i think im losing something valuable, this man caused me so much confusion and pain, but i let myself down too because i allowed it... I suppose i struggle to stick by a decision as in 1. Should i be compassionate and supportive as he obviously has issues..so i shld be there even if he behaves badly . Or 2. I should stop making excuses for him because he knows hes hurting me but chooses to carry on so i deserve better! So i should walk away ...im torn as to what the secure reaction would be ..rise above and have empathy or walk away.
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Post by ocarina on Jun 2, 2018 7:39:05 GMT
The point is that a secure reaction would always be to put yourself first. That doesn’t mean that you lack compassion - it’s quite possible to be kind and loving but still not to accept behavior that is damaging you. An example: Most of the violent criminals in prison have had horrific fix childhood abuse - we can have compassion for their suffering whilst not settling up home with them and being murdered. At the moment you’re confusing yourself. The kind response here would be to detach- staying and getting hurt is not only unkind to yourself it’s also being unkind to him by disrespecting his boundaries AND enabling him to continue the toxic behavior without consequences thus blocking any possible chance that he will hit rock bottom and be motivated to change. Have you read Codependent no more? It’s an interesting read and might help in your healing.
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Post by sandiew662 on Jun 2, 2018 8:00:36 GMT
Yes i do have a copy of codependant no more altho not read much of it , ill take another look. I understand what you mean i s'pose i just was happy that when he replied i thought we could go back to just being on friendly terms , thats all i wanted..it was just another kick that he returned to ignoring me for no reason and i cant help but feel it was hurtful and cruel of him too...but as you say i need to put myself first for myself and as you say if he feels no consequence of hus behaviour then im kinda bringin it on myself arent i. Im just a very simple open person whos very communacative and try to retain good connections . It doesnt always work ! Lol xx
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Post by sandiew662 on Jun 2, 2018 8:13:22 GMT
I suppose also it doesnt help in this situ that im a psychiatric nurse..have been for 14 years, iv worked in a prison enviroment , iv always had good interpersonal relations with people , i hate unresolved conflict ..i suppose its my need to try to fix thats holding me back from doing whats best for myself. My ex had many issues that he admitted too, he was with a bi-polar drug addict for 4 yrs she did some terrible things,hectold me he dsnt trust women and that hes messed up in the head and doesnt want to hurt me ... but sometimes his behaviour borders on narcisism , he cld be so loving and genuine and on the flip side , so dismissive of other ppls needs... The reason we fell out is that his young teenage son told my daughter that he felt unloved by hus dad , and he sometimes wanted to kill himself and self harm. I told my ex thus but he dusmissed it as normal teenage issues, being that i felt the pain of dismussal from him as his on was feeling i told my ex how hurtful and irresponsible his attitude was to us ....he didnt like that and cut me off.
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Post by ocarina on Jun 2, 2018 9:59:38 GMT
You’re not God - I laugh about this now but there was a time when I would let people destroy me and justify this by “being there for them” It’s common amongst those of us in caring professions. You can’t care for anyone without caring for yourself first. It’s a wonderful thing to be compassionate to everyone but it needs to start with you - and ignoring your needs by the engaging with people who don’t respect them will prevent you from being truly available and loving - to yourself first and also to others.
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Post by sandiew662 on Jun 2, 2018 10:53:10 GMT
So in saying all that about people treating us badly and we still give ...i am right in saying that this guy is being thoughtless and disrespectful? The problem i have is trusting my own judgement when it comes to relationships...i can never decide whether his kind of behaviour is in fact crappy behaviour or just misunderstood?
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 2, 2018 10:54:59 GMT
Detaching is very challenging for me...I suspect it may be for others with AP. It is a feeling of "giving up" on someone. When I was a child I never "gave up" on my mom or my dad...because there was this tremendous "hope" that things could change..so detaching in a sense reawakens in me a desire to cling even further. What works just a tad better for me is to own my attachment..to tell myself, I am choosing to stay attached to this person....however, that person is an autonomous individual and I am not responsible for the choices that he makes and nothing of what he is doing is personal or about me. It requires a lot of reminding, but it seems to be working.
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