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Post by tnr9 on May 16, 2018 10:15:55 GMT
Now that I am more focused on me...I have the opportunity to look squarely at my own triggers...and one of the most impactful/hurtful is silence. Silence in itself isn't triggering...but silence as a "response" is brutal. I find that, just like the still face experiment performed between parent and child..."silence" is equal to the still face and I start to go into automatic protest behaviors in order to relieve the escalating fears. And it only happens with people who would naturally trigger this response in me. The first thing I tend to do is "reach out" (via IM, email, text)..in this reaching out, I am trying to get assurance that everything is "ok". If I don't get a response to that, I start to create catastrophizing scenarios...I start to believe I have done something wrong (which honestly activates a fear in me that "I am wrong"-so there is a huge element of shame) and I begin to "cry". I likely will reach out to someone else to receive comfort/validation at that time. If enough time has passed and there still isn't a response, I will withdraw....still thinking I was the reason for the other person's silence. Owning this sucks....it shows how absolutely vunerable I am to someone else and how deep and automatic the triggers are. It takes a heck of a lot to depersonize that silence..because it honestly feels like punishment and I react accordingly (with tears=please don't hate me, please respond to me, please do not ignore me). Reason (as in thinking of other explanations for the silence) tends to come much later...and by that time, I will have already exhausted myself with crying/negative thoughts etc. I think if I really examine this....it stems from feeling "ignored" often as a child...and sometimes my attempts to get "validation" and "attention" did not go as I had intended, so I did feel punished as a result. It is good to get this out...I feel a lot better.
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Post by yasmin on May 16, 2018 10:22:25 GMT
I'm fairness to your reaction here, I don't think anyone likes being ignored and it's also rude behavior.
Maybe just own that you find being ignored painful and don't engage with people who inflict painful behavior on you.
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Post by tnr9 on May 16, 2018 10:28:11 GMT
I'm fairness to your reaction here, I don't think anyone likes being ignored and it's also rude behavior. Maybe just own that you find being ignored painful and don't engage with people who inflict painful behavior on you. Thank you Yasmin...I do appreciate the validation. |
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Post by yasmin on May 16, 2018 10:40:49 GMT
Think of it in terms of how much the baby hates the still face experiment. The baby isn't flawed. It's natural to feel How you do. Instead of beating yourself up, say "I don't like it when people I am close to ignore me". Validate yourself.
And when people use ignoring as a behavioural response with you, tell them you don't like it. If they ignore that too.... the person isn't good for you.
Xx
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Post by ocarina on May 16, 2018 12:41:56 GMT
Think of it in terms of how much the baby hates the still face experiment. The baby isn't flawed. It's natural to feel How you do. Instead of beating yourself up, say "I don't like it when people I am close to ignore me". Validate yourself. And when people use ignoring as a behavioural response with you, tell them you don't like it. If they ignore that too.... the person isn't good for you. Xx I love the kick ass attitude Yasmin - sometimes it's good and necessary to recognise that whatever the behaviour being hurled our way it just actually isn't alright - period. It doesn't require a reaction towards the other person but does require self compassion and recognition to prevent boundary busting abuse. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 16, 2018 12:48:17 GMT
Think of it in terms of how much the baby hates the still face experiment. The baby isn't flawed. It's natural to feel How you do. Instead of beating yourself up, say "I don't like it when people I am close to ignore me". Validate yourself. And when people use ignoring as a behavioural response with you, tell them you don't like it. If they ignore that too.... the person isn't good for you. Xx So...to be even more "honest"..it doesn't just occur with people I am close to...it happens with people who i barely know who would naturally trigger me as well. That is what I am trying to work on...because I agree, someone close...that is cause for hurt feelings and not wanting to be ignored...but with others....I just don't want someone else's attachment issues to constantly trigger mine and since I don't have any influence on anyone else..then I get to work squarely on myself. How do you develop strong boundaries to react one way with someone close versus a completely different way with someone you barely know who triggers you? I think that will really help me. |
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Post by DearLover on May 16, 2018 21:27:46 GMT
Have no expectations from others... or rather... Have high expectations from others but practice detachment from their actions or outcomes. Your happiness source is yourself and the God you believe in and that lives inside you. Nothing and nobody outside yourself and your God can bring you anything. They just reflect back to you. So they are silent and you feel ignored...in which ways your are ignoring yourself and your needs in your life?
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Post by yasmin on May 16, 2018 23:11:44 GMT
Think of it in terms of how much the baby hates the still face experiment. The baby isn't flawed. It's natural to feel How you do. Instead of beating yourself up, say "I don't like it when people I am close to ignore me". Validate yourself. And when people use ignoring as a behavioural response with you, tell them you don't like it. If they ignore that too.... the person isn't good for you. Xx So...to be even more "honest"..it doesn't just occur with people I am close to...it happens with people who i barely know who would naturally trigger me as well. That is what I am trying to work on...because I agree, someone close...that is cause for hurt feelings and not wanting to be ignored...but with others....I just don't want someone else's attachment issues to constantly trigger mine and since I don't have any influence on anyone else..then I get to work squarely on myself. How do you develop strong boundaries to react one way with someone close versus a completely different way with someone you barely know who triggers you? I think that will really help me. Can you define "ignore" here? Because if people you hardly know don't call or respond to a message or something like that, then reacting to that with anxiety is a problem with you because that person hasn't got an attachment with you so has different obligations. If people you are attached with ignore you, then that's rude /unkind / messed up behavior on their part. If someone you barely know does it, then this is their own right to choose what they do or don't spend time on. I am not sure it's always an attachment issue - a lot of people ignore / don't respond to messages, especially in the dating arena because it's become the social norm to behave like that. It's still not nice behavior though, so I avoid anyone who would do that. Rudeness is the norm. It doesn't mean you can't have boundaries. EG: Go on date with guy and he ignores a few texts from you - boundary can be to decide you don't want a second date. Boundary can be to tell him you find it rude. Boundary is different from needy because you're simply stating your own limit which someone can respect or not. With everyone, you need boundaries, but they also deserve boundaries of their own. Someone you hardly know, for example, has a reasonable right to not want to spend time on you because they don't even know you really and maybe they are busy or have stuff to do that is more important than you at that moment. It's not down to them to soothe someone else's insecurity or need for attention if that person isn't in some kind of close relationship with attachment (good friend, dating, family member). So for example, you sent me a long PM the other day (and a couple of other people did) and to be honest I was so exhausted that day and had worked 18 hours (my job is insane) and had a child to deal with and laundry to do and I just did not have the headspace to properly digest it so I didn't read them or reply to any of them This is "ignoring", but it's from someone who has no attachment to you. My boundary is that I don't need to devote 30 minutes to reading, understanding and replying to some strangers online if I don't choose to. I have no need to explain that or to feel bad. I didn't seek out the messages. I am not involved personally with any of those people and I am pretty exhausted and dealing with a lot right now. If that kind of "ignoring" will trigger you, then this is an issue in you. Because you're expecting too much attention. Too much importance in a strangers life without understanding they have their own life and different priorities. At the moment, I hardly have time to see or speak to my real life friends, so online people just aren't making the list. I think you have to stop making everything about you. When someone ignores you when they barely know you, it's not about you. They're busy. you're not that important to them and there's no reason you SHOULD be, their own work, friends, kids, families are important When someone ignores you and you have an intimate relationship with them, it's also not about you. They are being rude /a jerk /behaving in a hurtful way. the way others behave isn't about you, is the point here. No need to beat yourself up and feel it's a rejection or has some reflection on your worth because it absolutely doesn't. They are either busy or they are a butthole. I am sure you can figure out which  Just stop criticiing yourself internally in these ways. 100% of the time when someone is a jerk it is just because they are a jerk. Work out when you have a legitimate reason to be annoyed about it and have courage to know you are worth requesting better xx |
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Post by tnr9 on May 16, 2018 23:44:04 GMT
Hey Yasmin...yes...thank you!! It wasn't you btw, or technically anyone else on these forums. And yes....I recognized that I was personalizing a situation and then reacting out of a very young space. It was really helpful to write it out here because I could then reread it from a different perspective later on and now I am fully over it. I was actually over it hours ago, which was a fantastic breakthrough for me. I think that is part of the challenge with an AP lens..it is very outwardly focused but centered on the self. Literally every thought becomes "why didn't X respond...to me" " why did X do that..in relationship to me". It takes a LOT of awareness to move the dial to a more centered perspective..but I am working on it.
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Post by leavethelighton on May 17, 2018 0:18:03 GMT
I know what you mean-- silence is the worst. The disappearances, ghostings, disassociations, whatever... it's hard when someone you very much want in your life seems to be showing all evidence of not wanting to be there.
The pain of that can be very enduring if you let it be.
I hate to say it, but I think part of the way out of that pain is to let go of hope that they'll start communicating again. Learn to be really okay with the idea that they may never return to communicating. I know, easier said than done.
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2018 0:53:51 GMT
I know what you mean-- silence is the worst. The disappearances, ghostings, disassociations, whatever... it's hard when someone you very much want in your life seems to be showing all evidence of not wanting to be there. The pain of that can be very enduring if you let it be. I hate to say it, but I think part of the way out of that pain is to let go of hope that they'll start communicating again. Learn to be really okay with the idea that they may never return to communicating. I know, easier said than done. Thanks so much....first for also acknowledging how awful it is..but secondly for providing some insight into what to do....I find that it is an automatic response to feel jilted and ignored (even though, to Yasmin's point earlier...it isn't either). I like the idea of "no expectations" as provided by dearlover...but not sure how quickly I can implement it. |
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Post by yasmin on May 17, 2018 7:38:57 GMT
I completely agree with leavethelighton in terms of how awful it feels when someone you really want to be close to or love ignores you, withholds or acts like they don't want to be there but I'd really argue that telling yourself not to expect better isn't a resolution. Maybe tell yourself to definitely expect better. Maybe tell yourself you deserve better. A couple of points on this... 1. I just dated an FA for the first time as you all know, so this was my first experience of push / pull, being intermittently ignored, witholding and all this kind of stuff. OMG, it really made me feel completely crazy! I felt absolutely awful, rejected, boring, not loveable. It really affected my self esteem. BUT the key observation long term from this is that it mostly affected my self esteem because I let it. I let his behavior make me feel like that was all I deserved. The power to reject that reality was within me. The power to reject the behavior was within me. The simple principle to believe is, "I deserve better". When you have that, what someone does or doesn't do can't harm you in the same way. Their behavior is nothing to do with your value! but allowing them to continue it DOES. 2. Fast forward to a new dating situation last week, where a guy who'd been showing me in messages and calls abruptly slowed down, didn't return a couple of messages and definitely gave me the slow / subtle beginning of the vibe of being ignored. It wasn't overt, but it sure was there and I felt triggered. You know what I did? I sent him a message and I said, "I am cancelling our date. It seems like you don't have time to reply to me in a timely way and I really want to date someone who's consistent and always excited to speak to me". And that was it. I was done with him. Because I placed a boundary on my own expectations, that hey, maybe I don't LIKE it or get aroused or feel wonderful when a guy blanks me! It felt FANTASTIC and saved me from dating someone who was going to jerk me around. 3. In parallel to this, my Father ignores me. Always has. A couple of days ago I did something really amazing to do with my work /achievement and it really was a big deal and made an announcement via my family group chat. Anyone would have called their daughter and said, "wow, well done this is amazing" but my Father basically ignored my announcement and started talking about something else as if I hadn't spoken. Before, I would have just let this go and not even reacted (I am so avoidant it wouldn't have even registered as painful), but due to the work I have been doing I said publicly on the group chat "Hey, it would be nice if my own Father congratulated me. Maybe pretend to be a normal Father for once". And this is something I would NEVER normally do!!!! And he apologised and congratulated me and said he was proud of me. The point about these things is that in point 1 I accepted hurtful behavior and let it torture me and I personalised it and I was miserable and it chipped away at my self love. In scenarios 2 and 3, I'd changed from that and I was able to say "HEY YOU, I DON'T LIKE BEING IGNORED". And the beautiful part is you have a choice. You can choose to yell or get angry or just walk away. you don't always change the other person (mostly not) but you do change yourself. This is what boundaries are. I don't think you should stop expecting better.
I think you should start expecting WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY better.Why not expect waaay better than being ignored? But remember that the Still Face Experiment is about the Mother leaving. If the baby starts to lose it when the bus driver gets off the bus, then the baby has a problem with security. It's only close attachment figures who we have this human desire for reciprocal affirmation and security is. You can't place your self worth in the hands of someone who does not even know you. Start with your self love, then you won't care so much what strangers do. Self love starts with not apologising for having basic needs, boundaries, expectations and feelings. It starts with realising you deserve a lot as everyone does. How hard is it to respond to a message? It's not hard! even if it's to say you don't want to speak any more. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2018 12:10:11 GMT
Hi Annie...thanks for sharing...that really isn't it...it more happens with impersonal forms of communication...texting, email etc...but I can see where a secure would be a bit confused. Having really not faced these automatic responses before...because I was more committed to understanding someone else to win them over versus sitting with these triggers and uncovering the root. One thing I did retain from my years in therapy is that if the reaction is more than the situation allows..it isn't the present situation you are reacting to. I only used the still face to help put a visual to the internal process I go through..which feels very similiar to the protest behaviors that a child goes through. Yasmin...I think I may have seen a different video....the one I watched..the child is with the mom, she is initially responsive...they have her look away, then look back with no reaction to what the child does...they did it with dads too. The child, upon not getting the synchronization they expected, starts to go into levels of distress, trying to engage the parent. That is what I am comparing my reactions to...and I agree that the power is in my hands to stop engaging with individuals who trigger me in that way. Changing those dynamics is something I am really looking forward to continuing...as I have let the perceived rejections of others negative impact me for far too long. Why should someone else get to say what parts/behaviors etc are acceptable? Because at the root...that is what it feels like...I can tolerate you/I enjoy you..when you fit in this very narrow range of emotions..I say humbug!!! I say, if someone wants to put those restrictions on someone...then let them put them on themself.....this woman is embracing herself for all of her craziness/joy/sadness. I will no longer be contained by fears of the disapproval of others....life is too short and I love myself too much to continue to be/act so small. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2018 12:17:24 GMT
I completely agree with leavethelighton in terms of how awful it feels when someone you really want to be close to or love ignores you, withholds or acts like they don't want to be there but I'd really argue that telling yourself not to expect better isn't a resolution. Maybe tell yourself to definitely expect better. Maybe tell yourself you deserve better. A couple of points on this... 1. I just dated an FA for the first time as you all know, so this was my first experience of push / pull, being intermittently ignored, witholding and all this kind of stuff. OMG, it really made me feel completely crazy! I felt absolutely awful, rejected, boring, not loveable. It really affected my self esteem. BUT the key observation long term from this is that it mostly affected my self esteem because I let it. I let his behavior make me feel like that was all I deserved. The power to reject that reality was within me. The power to reject the behavior was within me. The simple principle to believe is, "I deserve better". When you have that, what someone does or doesn't do can't harm you in the same way. Their behavior is nothing to do with your value! but allowing them to continue it DOES. 2. Fast forward to a new dating situation last week, where a guy who'd been showing me in messages and calls abruptly slowed down, didn't return a couple of messages and definitely gave me the slow / subtle beginning of the vibe of being ignored. It wasn't overt, but it sure was there and I felt triggered. You know what I did? I sent him a message and I said, "I am cancelling our date. It seems like you don't have time to reply to me in a timely way and I really want to date someone who's consistent and always excited to speak to me". And that was it. I was done with him. Because I placed a boundary on my own expectations, that hey, maybe I don't LIKE it or get aroused or feel wonderful when a guy blanks me! It felt FANTASTIC and saved me from dating someone who was going to jerk me around. 3. In parallel to this, my Father ignores me. Always has. A couple of days ago I did something really amazing to do with my work /achievement and it really was a big deal and made an announcement via my family group chat. Anyone would have called their daughter and said, "wow, well done this is amazing" but my Father basically ignored my announcement and started talking about something else as if I hadn't spoken. Before, I would have just let this go and not even reacted (I am so avoidant it wouldn't have even registered as painful), but due to the work I have been doing I said publicly on the group chat "Hey, it would be nice if my own Father congratulated me. Maybe pretend to be a normal Father for once". And this is something I would NEVER normally do!!!! And he apologised and congratulated me and said he was proud of me. The point about these things is that in point 1 I accepted hurtful behavior and let it torture me and I personalised it and I was miserable and it chipped away at my self love. In scenarios 2 and 3, I'd changed from that and I was able to say "HEY YOU, I DON'T LIKE BEING IGNORED". And the beautiful part is you have a choice. You can choose to yell or get angry or just walk away. you don't always change the other person (mostly not) but you do change yourself. This is what boundaries are. I don't think you should stop expecting better.
I think you should start expecting WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY better.Why not expect waaay better than being ignored? But remember that the Still Face Experiment is about the Mother leaving. If the baby starts to lose it when the bus driver gets off the bus, then the baby has a problem with security. It's only close attachment figures who we have this human desire for reciprocal affirmation and security is. You can't place your self worth in the hands of someone who does not even know you. Start with your self love, then you won't care so much what strangers do. Self love starts with not apologising for having basic needs, boundaries, expectations and feelings. It starts with realising you deserve a lot as everyone does. How hard is it to respond to a message? It's not hard! even if it's to say you don't want to speak any more. OMGodness....👏🏻👏🏻🏆🏆🏆😍😍....seriously Yasmin...you AMAZE me with your boldness...as I was reading I was like...that is what I want to get to...that is the boldness that says...I MATTER....FaNTASTIC. |
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Post by mrob on May 17, 2018 12:32:51 GMT
Hang on, hang on. So you get to dictate the length of time someone takes to answer a text? Sorry, just the thought of that makes me want to run. Nobody controls me like that. Sometimes I need time to think about what to say, or I’m at work and can’t answer, or some other reason. I’m nobody’s marionette.
There you go, kudos for activating my “run for the hills” response!!
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Just stop criticiing yourself internally in these ways. 100% of the time when someone is a jerk it is just because they are a jerk. Work out when you have a legitimate reason to be annoyed about it and have courage to know you are worth requesting better
