|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 2:03:48 GMT
Hi everyone,
I'm back on these boards after a break of several months. I was quite depressed from January to March, then went travelling for 6 weeks, and this lifted up my spirits a lot. Back to normal life now, and drifting again.
A month ago, I met two girls, sisters, whom I hosted at my place through couchsurfing. Very friendly contact from the start.
We ended up spending about a week together, but one sister and I got attracted to each other and we ended up having sex on the last night before they left.
We've been chatting a solid 4 hours a day ever since, and I'm going to meet her where she lives (long-distance relationship then, if things go well) next weekend. I have developped quite a good radar for avoidant people over the years, and even before we slept together, I could see some signs, not in her behaviour, but from her past. I could also tell that her sister was AP (too much like me, therefore not attractive!).
Anyway, tonight she opened up to me by telling me about her past. Similar story to mine. Alcoholic dad, their mum left him and got together with another man who dispised the two sisters. The sister of my date became AP (strong abandonment fears, also towards her sister), while my date became avoidant. She confirmed it herself, without using the attachment terminlogy. She listed these behaviours about herself: compartementalizing, not being able to identify her own emotions or those of others etc. She's been seeing a therapist and made good progress according to herself. So far, she hasn't displayed any distancing behaviour towards me. It's been a month since we met. She now expects me to tell her about my "life story" tomorrow when we chat again.
This time around, I've been doing good about keeping my AP behaviours in check. I pushed though my fears and tried to stay positive the whole time with her. No emotional tantrum whatsoever, even when she expressed doubt and insecurity when I first suggested metting her again.
But of course I already feel very smitten and attached to her. She seems to be also very interested in me, gave me many heartfelt compliments (even before we had sex), makes time for me etc. One compliment she gave me is that I seem to be independent! If she knew...
Question: what to do? Avoid telling her that I am actually like her sister, an AP? She told me that her sister can be quite a drag on her, so if I tell her that I am quite like her, she'll probably freak out. Unless I manage to convince her somehow that I'm also working on becoming more secure, like she is doing herself. Or bite the bullet and see how she takes it. If she doesn't think she could handle me, there's no future between us anyway. The truth will have to come out sooner or later? I tried hard this time around not to tell a new date about my problems. It lasted for a month. Now I'm confronted again.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 24, 2018 2:54:36 GMT
Welcome back Alpenglow...I think it is too soon to discuss attachment theory with her...this is the "getting to know" each other phase...mirror back to her the level of sharing she provided to you. As an AP, the tendency will be to try to move this forward quickly....if you sense she is DA, take it slow and just enjoy your dates. When things get more serious, then you can talk about attachment...but right now you are just having fun and seeing what is possible.
Also...it is a good idea to remind yourself that you hardly know her..you may feel attached to her..but you will want to gather a lot more information to determine how compatible the two of you are. 😀
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 3:17:49 GMT
if you'd like to grow, do something different. full disclosure of all your issues would not be nearly as conducive to an organic relationship as addressing your issues internally as they arise.
you're stepping into the AP/Da (assumed) dance willingly, expect a rough ride. you'll have lots of opportunity to observe yourself and choose constructive ways of dealing vs. destructive. you can still learn from it. every encounter is an opportunity to see yourself more clearly.
in my opinion, less talking and more doing about the issues, and let this person unfold to you instead of making assumptions about who they are and what they are about.
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Jun 24, 2018 4:15:26 GMT
I'm a fan of full disclosure. Maybe not at the very start, and I wouldn't be diagnosing anyone else. I'd be talking about myself and my behaviour.
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 9:59:27 GMT
Thanks a lot for your answers! I also agree that it's too soon to talk about attachment theory with her, and I'm actually not planning to like I usually do. The challenge is that if I wish to mirror back the level of sharing she provided me, I need to talk about my past, which is very similar to hers (alcoholic dad etc). This in itself will lead to talking about how my past created anxiety in me, which is something I am still actively dealing with. She was very open about telling me about how she went for therapy, so again, if I want to mirror that back, I should tell her that I have seen/am seeing therapists. She told me quite a lot about the effects her past had on her sister, less so on herself. So ideally, I'd like to have fun and just see what is possible. I've been doing pretty good so far I think. Like I said, I managed to keep my fears in check, probably because there have been less triggers in general (I feel very comfortable around her, therefore not activated) and because I managed not to unfairly project my doubts and fears on her the few times I became activated. I am trying something different for once, so I agree with juniper that full disclosure "would not be nearly as conducive to an organic relationship as addressing your issues internally as they arise." This is precisely what I am trying to achieve. But yeah, so far the whole thing is giving me plenty opportunities to observe myself, choose and apply constructive ways of dealing, rather than destructive ones! The part about not making assumptions is a bit more difficult. Now that I know by her own admission and looking at her past that she is very likely to be a DA (but again, few behavioural signs so far in the way she interacts with me), my fears are further activated. Ie abandonment fears (if she finds out I'm anxious like her sister, she might freak out and end things) and the overall knowledge that AP/DA relationships are rough even if things work out. I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt though, and see how she's like with me, before jumping to conclusions. Not so easy now after her disclosure. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I can "fake" being secure all I want, but that I can't hide my past when someone asks about it (especially when there's been disclosure on the other side, this doesn't seem fair to hold back). How to make sense of my past (and present) in a positive light?
|
|
|
Post by DearLover on Jun 24, 2018 12:31:17 GMT
I am not offering you advice, just saying what I am feeling: how about being yourself and honour where you are at? accepting and honouring who you are the same way you are doing for her? expect that she will do the same for you.. and if she doesn't, is she really the right person for you? What you are describing is sounding like such hard work already and it is the beginning ... also being a long distance thing... are you really ready for a real relationship?
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 13:54:26 GMT
Being myself and honouring what I am sounds like good advice. It's actually what I've been feeling so far, expecting that she will do the same for me. It's only know that I'm hitting a known wall. Most of biggest walls come very early on in relationships and things get easier with time.
It may sound like hard work because the most important work in my case has to be done in the beginning, when I am easily activated. As a relationship progresses, so does my sense of security. Not sure about being ready for a long distance thing...but I like to work with the opportunities I have. I know that when I don't try to take them, I just stay home, alone and depressed. I see it as a good opportunity to learn a few things, focus on the present, even if things don't work out.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 24, 2018 15:58:27 GMT
Being myself and honouring what I am sounds like good advice. It's actually what I've been feeling so far, expecting that she will do the same for me. It's only know that I'm hitting a known wall. Most of biggest walls come very early on in relationships and things get easier with time. It may sound like hard work because the most important work in my case has to be done in the beginning, when I am easily activated. As a relationship progresses, so does my sense of security. Not sure about being ready for a long distance thing...but I like to work with the opportunities I have. I know that when I don't try to take them, I just stay home, alone and depressed. I see it as a good opportunity to learn a few things, focus on the present, even if things don't work out. As long as you look at it from the perspective that this is simply an opportunity to learn about yourself and not from the perspective that a failure of this relationship equates to anything wrong with you..then you should be fine. But do stay alert to feelings of trying to read into things or taking things too personal....especially in the beginning stages. Also..do not rule out that she could be FA and only displaying DA tendencies with you. I agree with Juniper to not label her prematurely without further information. good luck and have fun.
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 17:16:03 GMT
I'm trying to look at it as an opportunity to grow, yes. But I can't fully eradicate the thought of associating failure of this relationship equating to something wrong with me. Or else I would already be secure, well adjusted, whatever. And most likely not on these forums! Having this much knowledge about attachment theory for people like us here on this board is a double-edged sword. It can be used as a tool to be wary of situations, but can quickly backfire if we rely too much on such abstract cues. I read in your comment both advice about not reading too much into things, and considering that she might be FA (why not!). To find out would mean spending more time reading into things/analysing situations, I think. Which is exactly when this type of knowledge can backfire.
Anyway, she's not displaying any tendency of anything with me so far. It's her past that I have been reading into, which I interpret as meaning that she is very likely to be DA (or FA).
Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 24, 2018 17:27:36 GMT
I'm trying to look at it as an opportunity to grow, yes. But I can't fully eradicate the thought of associating failure of this relationship equating to something wrong with me. Or else I would already be secure, well adjusted, whatever. And most likely not on these forums! Having this much knowledge about attachment theory for people like us here on this board is a double-edged sword. It can be used as a tool to be wary of situations, but can quickly backfire if we rely too much on such abstract cues. I read in your comment both advice about not reading too much into things, and considering that she might be FA (why not!). To find out would mean spending more time reading into things/analysing situations, I think. Which is exactly when this type of knowledge can backfire. Anyway, she's not displaying any tendency of anything with me so far. It's her past that I have been reading into, which I interpret as meaning that she is very likely to be DA (or FA). Thank you! If you read my post..I am not telling you to look for her being FA..I am suggesting that you be open to that as a "possibility" instead of saying she is DA. I agree with Juniper that it is too soon to place any attachment label on her...just let her behaviors reveal themselves....over time it will become clear (without any analyzing) what her attachment is. The tendency of anyone with AP is to associate the failure of a relationship in some way back to us...but I am suggesting that you prepare yourself now to accept that a failure is not necessarily a statement about you...just two people who were open to a possibility that did not work out.
|
|
|
Post by DearLover on Jun 24, 2018 17:32:36 GMT
Well, you know that in a way APs are also unavailable since we keep attaching to people who can't meet our needs fully, this way we won't have a real relationship. I heard a few years ago when I was in the middle of a long distance thing that when a person is ready for a real relationship they immediately discard a long distance relationship UNLESS there are concrete and final plans for one of them to move. e.g.: you know she is about to start a job where you live very soon, contract signed, accommodation sorted out etc or vice versa.
I am all for exploring and knowing yourself, we can't really do this without other people to be our mirror but take great care with your heart and her heart.
I have been in 3 long distance relationships, one of them resulted in marriage (we were engaged before he moved) and from my experience it is based on illusion and wishful thinking. It is nice when you don't keep it serious, only as a holiday kind of connection.
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 18:20:42 GMT
I'm trying to look at it as an opportunity to grow, yes. But I can't fully eradicate the thought of associating failure of this relationship equating to something wrong with me. Or else I would already be secure, well adjusted, whatever. And most likely not on these forums! Having this much knowledge about attachment theory for people like us here on this board is a double-edged sword. It can be used as a tool to be wary of situations, but can quickly backfire if we rely too much on such abstract cues. I read in your comment both advice about not reading too much into things, and considering that she might be FA (why not!). To find out would mean spending more time reading into things/analysing situations, I think. Which is exactly when this type of knowledge can backfire. Anyway, she's not displaying any tendency of anything with me so far. It's her past that I have been reading into, which I interpret as meaning that she is very likely to be DA (or FA). Thank you! If you read my post..I am not telling you to look for her being FA..I am suggesting that you be open to that as a "possibility" instead of saying she is DA. I agree with Juniper that it is too soon to place any attachment label on her...just let her behaviors reveal themselves....over time it will become clear (without any analyzing) what her attachment is. The tendency of anyone with AP is to associate the failure of a relationship in some way back to us...but I am suggesting that you prepare yourself now to accept that a failure is not necessarily a statement about you...just two people who were open to a possibility that did not work out. Ok, I had misunderstood you, then, tnr9, sorry! Being open for the possibly that she might be FA, by looking at her behaviours further down the line, is something different, I agree. Accepting that a failure is not necessarily a statement about me is something I would like to achieve. It might actually be easier in this case, because of the long-distance thing. If the reason it doesn't work out is the distance, then it will be more difficult for me to link it to some sort of personal flaw. A good thing.
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 18:27:39 GMT
Well, you know that in a way APs are also unavailable since we keep attaching to people who can't meet our needs fully, this way we won't have a real relationship. I heard a few years ago when I was in the middle of a long distance thing that when a person is ready for a real relationship they immediately discard a long distance relationship UNLESS there are concrete and final plans for one of them to move. e.g.: you know she is about to start a job where you live very soon, contract signed, accommodation sorted out etc or vice versa. I am all for exploring and knowing yourself, we can't really do this without other people to be our mirror but take great care with your heart and her heart. I have been in 3 long distance relationships, one of them resulted in marriage (we were engaged before he moved) and from my experience it is based on illusion and wishful thinking. It is nice when you don't keep it serious, only as a holiday kind of connection. Yeah, that's right, we can be unavailable this way!
I've been in two long distance relationships myself, where the second one also resulted in marriage. I wouldn't be as categoric as saying that it's based on illusion and wishful thinking. But this is your experience. I guess that many times, it just doesn't work out.
But what does not working out mean? If one person moved to be with the other, and things lasted for a number of years, is it a failure?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 18:32:45 GMT
Hello and welcome back to the forum! I'm towards the fearful avoidant spectrum myself, and I wouldn't like it if my new date starts telling me everything about himself. I would be wondering why and it would make me nervous and uncomfortable. However, I would like very much to hear about him in a more in-depth way, as it signals sincerity and not superficiality on his part. So it's great if you can share your background, struggles, etc., at the same level that she did, but on your own, keep trying to think and act like a Secure with her.
An AP partner is very stressful, in his or her own way, so it's important to learn to be less demanding of her, and more giving of yourself to suit her needs, even if it means you stay away when she needs the space. Please DO NOT send 10 SMS one after another. No text or photo bombing. Let her reply to one of yours before you initiate any further contact. I wouldn't want to be held ransom by anyone to reply or act on their terms. You can ask her frankly and directly how much space she needs, and she must feel safe communicating her needs to you, i.e. you don't judge her or ask her why, etc.
It is also important to do more sympathetic listening, so you can understand her better, most of us women simply want to be heard and understood, and be always SUPPORTIVE. For an AP, motto is : Less is More.
Also, not to forget to watch for red flags if any! It's still early, and you shouldn't jump in too deep until you feel safe and ready. However, if she is all clear, all green light, yes, you can tell all, after a few weeks. If she is the right partner, she should be able to handle your warts too. If she can't, there will be surely be future problems she won't be able to cope with either, so better to know now than later.
I think distance shouldn't be a problem if both are a great fit, but eventually, after a few months of facetime, weekends together and irregular dates, one must move to be in the same city as the other when both are ready, even if you don't move in together. I don't believe it is possible to go on forever, it's a DA move to insist on a permanent LDR. I now recognize that as a red flag if the partner thinks so!
Pace yourself well, and good luck!
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Jun 24, 2018 18:55:24 GMT
Thanks for the encouragement, @curious ! I came here seeking some reassurance how to handle my past in the context of the early stages of a relationship. As a general comment, to anyone commenting here, hearing that I should be careful about this or that, that long-distance relationships might not work, all these extra questions, while they may be justified and come with good intentions, make me even more anxious. It's enough to deal with the anxiety that arises from the original question I asked. I'm trying hard to live in the present instead of worrying about the future, so if I now have to worry about whether the whole thing is pointless or not, I know that I will just give up and go back on feeling depressed. Not the right strategy for me.... I will never feel exacly safe and ready for any relationship. I can only try and learn along the way by exploring possibilities. I don't feel safe and ready for "life" either, but I still go through it... So far I've been doing most of the listening with her. And most of our conversations so far anyway are quite light. Not super deep stuff. I would also view insisting on a permanent LDR as a red flag! I wouldn't want this either. But again, I am not there yet. If I think too far ahead in the future, I get super anxious. This might make want to ask her questions like "where is this heading?", "what future do we have together?". Sure ways of stressing the hell out of many people. I want to stay grounded in the present and take on things one at a time. It's all this seemingly conflicting information about "taking things slowly" and "knowing things early enough in order to protect myself". This tends to drive me crazy and increases my anxiety tenfolds.
|
|