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Post by lilyg on Aug 22, 2018 8:17:03 GMT
I like the concept of being one's own primary source of security, yet being secondary support for each other. As a DA, I am quite often my sole source of security. I rarely even register the need for support. I more often just feel stressed or dissapointed and want for some me time. Looking into myself, I realise I have had a long day at work, and while some things went well, one meeting went more chaotic than I expected and I feel stressed about how I may have come across. Maybe cuddling with someone who pointed out what went well would have decreased my stress levels. This may have been more effective than self regulating in this case because I got home too late to meditate and run a bath, and resorted to lower quality regulation of eating chips and playing video games, which kept some stress in my body during the night. I did not sleep too well. I would resent being the primary source for another person, and I think any DA would. That said, I am open to the idea of meeting 80% on our own and helping each other out with the 20% of stressful situations that can be processed more effectively by reaching out to one another. I'm 'secure' and I struggle with this sometimes. Yesterday I almost cried at work because of something related to my career path (in front of my boss like a big, stupid unprofessional baby) and I've just… didn't talk with anybody about it. I'm going though a rough patch. I just went after work to a store and bought a lot of beauty mascaras and applied like 1000 of them while drawing and ignoring everybody. I… talk about my feelings but when something makes me feel insecure/ashamed I need time to be able to reach for support from the outside. I sometimes drift away from people for a while, but I think I'd be miserable if I didn't have anybody to talk about things (often being with my friends is my way to recharge). I'm like a weird quimera of an extrovert/introvert. Today I don't feel that better and I'm struggling to tell my boyfriend I need to see him and drink a glass of wine with him and laugh and relax. I'm feeling needy. *Sigh* at least my skin looks great today. |
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 22, 2018 8:47:48 GMT
Thank you for sharing lilyg! To be honest, I think regulation of negative emotions is something many of us struggle with. Higher quality forms of regulation in my opinion do seem to bring greater happiness in the long term, but we may be too low on energy to perform them as they require more effort. Shopping, eating, complaining, and distracting ourselves with games or tv don't help us in the long run, but the average person engages in at least one of these behaviours when stressed. I also think the quality of the regulation is more important than alone vs together. Using the partner to complain to, or to have sex with as a way to numb feelings of stress is damaging to the relationship and the self. |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 22, 2018 9:13:33 GMT
I totally get it. I wanted to see a comedy movie but prefered to draw a bit as I think that was more wholesome for me. But I had to force myself at first. Yes, I've told him now I'd like to invite him to dinner but I don't want to talk about it, I'd just like to enjoy the evening with someone I love. We've talked about this before and although I know he has my back, he has told me his input already so I'll not discuss this problem further until I start to take action on it. Sorry for hijacking the conversation, and thank you a lot, goldilocks ! |
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 22, 2018 11:12:16 GMT
Wow, thanks a lot for your positive messages everyone, first thing I read this morning when I woke up  That felt good! This helped me and confirmed the gut feeling I had had this whole time. I wanted to write her one last message today before going no-contact, but she actually got back to me first, by asking "so, have you thought more about the discussion we had yesterday?" To that, I wrote back a quite lengthy message, stating that I kept my stance from yesterday. That we are obviously not compatible on a romantic level, we knew that already, but not on a friendship level either, since she would be unable to reassure me on any level. This need for reassurance, despite it coming from my attachment wound, is a crucial need as long as I have not earned secure attachment (and even then, secure people also need some reassurance from time to time!). I pointed out one last time that my needs are important for my mental health, and that, since she can't provide it (not her fault either, it also probably comes from her avoidant attachment), I didn't wish to keep in touch with her, as our interactions only bring me pain, shame and self-doubt. Fine that she can seemingly quickly get over our breakup, but I can't. I wrote that I need time to heal and that interacting with her won't help me in this direction, despite her viewing this as a coward act on my part. I wished her well and safe travels! She hasn't answered yet, but I DID IT!! Thank you so much for your support, everyone! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 12:18:00 GMT
Wow, thanks a lot for your positive messages everyone, first thing I read this morning when I woke up That felt good! This helped me and confirmed the gut feeling I had had this whole time. I wanted to write her one last message today before going no-contact, but she actually got back to me first, by asking "so, have you thought more about the discussion we had yesterday?" To that, I wrote back a quite lengthy message, stating that I kept my stance from yesterday. That we are obviously not compatible on a romantic level, we knew that already, but not on a friendship level either, since she would be unable to reassure me on any level. This need for reassurance, despite it coming from my attachment wound, is a crucial need as long as I have not earned secure attachment (and even then, secure people also need some reassurance from time to time!). I pointed out one last time that my needs are important for my mental health, and that, since she can't provide it (not her fault either, it also probably comes from her avoidant attachment), I didn't wish to keep in touch with her, as our interactions only bring me pain, shame and self-doubt. Fine that she can seemingly quickly get over our breakup, but I can't. I wrote that I need time to heal and that interacting with her won't help me in this direction, despite her viewing this as a coward act on my part. I wished her well and safe travels! She hasn't answered yet, but I DID IT!! Thank you so much for your support, everyone! this is tremendous! way to honor yourself and your needs. this is something to be very, very proud of!! |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 22, 2018 13:01:48 GMT
Wow, thanks a lot for your positive messages everyone, first thing I read this morning when I woke up That felt good! This helped me and confirmed the gut feeling I had had this whole time. I wanted to write her one last message today before going no-contact, but she actually got back to me first, by asking "so, have you thought more about the discussion we had yesterday?" To that, I wrote back a quite lengthy message, stating that I kept my stance from yesterday. That we are obviously not compatible on a romantic level, we knew that already, but not on a friendship level either, since she would be unable to reassure me on any level. This need for reassurance, despite it coming from my attachment wound, is a crucial need as long as I have not earned secure attachment (and even then, secure people also need some reassurance from time to time!). I pointed out one last time that my needs are important for my mental health, and that, since she can't provide it (not her fault either, it also probably comes from her avoidant attachment), I didn't wish to keep in touch with her, as our interactions only bring me pain, shame and self-doubt. Fine that she can seemingly quickly get over our breakup, but I can't. I wrote that I need time to heal and that interacting with her won't help me in this direction, despite her viewing this as a coward act on my part. I wished her well and safe travels! She hasn't answered yet, but I DID IT!! Thank you so much for your support, everyone! Yeahhh!  you're dealing with all of this on a very mature way. Being this confident will make you choose the good kind of woman for you. |
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 22, 2018 21:40:43 GMT
I know everyone’s already chimed in, but I really want to say I too totally support no contact. I relate to so much you talk about and here’s my take: 1. Letting go in this case is not cowardly AT ALL. Quite the opposite! AP or not, letting go can be tough. As an AP, detaching can be extra scary and painful. But when a relationship is not healthy it’s the right thing to do, and it takes strength and courage to let go. This is bravery and self love. 2. Even if you were secure, the way you describe her and the situation would be hard on anyone. This isn’t just a case of you not being secure enough, it’s a triggering scenario. 3. You want to become more secure, and you can, but staying connected to her will trigger you, delay your healing, and bring you in the opposite direction. 4. If you let go you WILL feel better in time. If you hang on you’ll just keep feeling like shit. The choice is yours. But as we know, “good things don’t feel like shit!” (My goodness that phrase makes me happy 😄) I cut contact almost 4 weeks ago with someone I dated that triggered me too. I had all the same thoughts as you...if I were more secure I could handle this, why can’t I just be stronger, etc! It’s bull! I realized just today I have been in a much better mood for the last week or so! Funny how that works?! The first bit after going nc was hard, but then I started to feel better. So yes, go no contact. Know any pain will pass. Ride the waves. Breath through them. It’s worth it. You’re worth it. You’ve got this! And we’ve got you! Thanks for making me see that this was not cowardly! It is stuff for APs like us, but I can see how it actually requires strength and courage to let go instead of feeling unsatisfied in an unhealthy relationship (even a sort of friendship after a breakup). It is an example of self-love, yes, I can see that. There is still a part that conditions me to feel sorry for leaving/abandonning the other person, but I need to concentrate on my well-being first!
Even a secure person might not have tolerated her behaviour (especially when she let me down that first night when I went to visit her). It definitely is a triggering scenario, but no end in sight. We were both aware of it in terms of romantic relationship, but now that she managed to get over it and keep me as a friend, it was mostly about my own healing instead of hers.
I need to remember that even seeing things the secure way doesn't mean tolerating things that are not good for us! It's easy for us insecures to imagine that being secure means being able to handle everything. It's not that black and white!
Glad to hear that you had a positive experience after having gone NC for 4 weeks! Good on you, good job! Thanks again for having my back, it's very comforting
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 22, 2018 21:47:00 GMT
It sounds like you're doing great!!! Regarding "Had I been secure, I would have managed to get used to this new dynamic," I disagree. Secure people vary significantly in their preferences for navigating breakups and in many, many other aspects of their personalities and psychology. All they have in common is their ability to be close with others while also honouring and taking care of themselves. I know you're not secure yet, but you did some seriously working-towards-secure stuff in this story: You told your ex your true needs and feelings straight-up. BRAVE OF YOU! When she didn't listen to you or accept what you shared of yourself, you still did what you knew you needed to do instead of what she was trying to shame you into doing (ugh). SO BRAVE OF YOU! It all sounds like the opposite of cowardice, really. Thanks for your comment and your words of affirmation!
And for the reminder about secure people. It is true that they come in all shapes and sizes. Important to point out that what they have in common is their ability to handle intimacy in a healthy way without compromising themselves.
And yes, she was definitely trying to shame me...I didn't quite realise it at that time (but I felt the discomfort/injustice/manipulation). It swayed me some, but I managed to stand my ground and didn't bow to her will!
I'm starting to see how this whole story can be a great lesson on the path to becoming more secure. A few years ago, I found myself in a slightly similar situation (although nothing had happened between that woman and I), but it took me a much longer time to get myself away from her grasp (one or two years) after a lot more abuse.
This time, I handled the whole thing in less than two months!
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Post by alexandra on Aug 22, 2018 22:20:11 GMT
Secure is not about tolerating anything, just the opposite... it's about being comfortable showing up for yourself and communicating your own needs, being comfortable showing up for someone else if they are asking for reasonable responses from you, and recognizing which situations are unhealthy and that you should walk away from ... knowing that it's okay for you to do so instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel ... and then actually walking away. It doesn't mean not walking away sad, but it does mean doing what's best for yourself and taking care of yourself if you're hitting a compatibility wall and the other partner isn't on the same page as you about working to overcome it.
You're definitely making progress and stood up for yourself in a situation that was deteriorating, which is great! Perhaps now you can do some introspection work on where the AP came from and how to heal whatever that may have been? It sounds like you're very self-aware about your triggers and behaviors, and you're in a good place to keep focusing on yourself and what's underneath it all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 2:57:16 GMT
for me, security means: choosing for COMPATIBILITY.
in values.
in character.
in lifestyle.
some features of my relationship with my favorite man in the world:
we are relaxed together and apart. we breathe easy.
there is no constant assertion of boundaries! it's not needed.
we share similar values. we have similar boundaries.
needs are listened to and supported- the first time they are mentioned.
we are consistently kind, and unfailingly respectful to each other. courtesy is a hallmark of our interaction.
in conflict or misunderstanding, we do not escalate. we wish to preserve our standing with each other, and it shows in how we resolve conflict together.
grace goes both ways.
our communication styles are very compatible, (we have similar styles of expression and that's a particular bonus for dual dismissives. for us, it enhances secure and clear communication. when in doubt about meaning, we ask, we dont assume. and we don't get offended easily, we trust mutually good intentions.)
we are good friends to one another.
we admire the good qualities of the other.
we don't talk about negative qualities in each other, but if ones shares a particular struggle, the other gives encouragement.
we have tolerance for each other, in case of a hard day, a negative mood, whatever.
we wish each other well from the bottom of our hearts.
we know and care about what makes the other suffer.
we know and care about what makes the other happy.
it could be summed up nicely as mutual respect, kindness, admiration, and trust.
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 23, 2018 8:48:44 GMT
Secure is not about tolerating anything, just the opposite... it's about being comfortable showing up for yourself and communicating your own needs, being comfortable showing up for someone else if they are asking for reasonable responses from you, and recognizing which situations are unhealthy and that you should walk away from ... knowing that it's okay for you to do so instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel ... and then actually walking away. It doesn't mean not walking away sad, but it does mean doing what's best for yourself and taking care of yourself if you're hitting a compatibility wall and the other partner isn't on the same page as you about working to overcome it.
You're definitely making progress and stood up for yourself in a situation that was deteriorating, which is great! Perhaps now you can do some introspection work on where the AP came from and how to heal whatever that may have been? It sounds like you're very self-aware about your triggers and behaviors, and you're in a good place to keep focusing on yourself and what's underneath it all.
Enlightening definition of what secure is! I like the emphasis on reasonable responses and the ability to walk away when trapped in an unhealthy situation. Also the part about not walking away sad...many of us insecure have this idea that being secure is equal to being so strong that you will never be sad or affected by difficult situations. I guess this comes from our vulnerability fear, and all the shame that lies behind it. We worked hard to try and hide our fears and insecurity and shame and fear.
Thanks! I think I am very self-aware, yes, not always, not every time, but it's definitely growing more and more. The issue for me has not so much been the lack of awareness and introspection (my various therapists have always said that I have way enough insight and general knowledge) but having enough courage to do what's right (again, out of fear). As for where the AP comes from, I'm also very much aware of the causes (childhood trauma). The struggle is about finding the best way to integrate these memories and building a sense of self that has been more or less destroyed (or at the very least, stunted) by my parents.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 12:40:02 GMT
Secure is not about tolerating anything, just the opposite... it's about being comfortable showing up for yourself and communicating your own needs, being comfortable showing up for someone else if they are asking for reasonable responses from you, and recognizing which situations are unhealthy and that you should walk away from ... knowing that it's okay for you to do so instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel ... and then actually walking away. It doesn't mean not walking away sad, but it does mean doing what's best for yourself and taking care of yourself if you're hitting a compatibility wall and the other partner isn't on the same page as you about working to overcome it. You're definitely making progress and stood up for yourself in a situation that was deteriorating, which is great! Perhaps now you can do some introspection work on where the AP came from and how to heal whatever that may have been? It sounds like you're very self-aware about your triggers and behaviors, and you're in a good place to keep focusing on yourself and what's underneath it all.
Enlightening definition of what secure is! I like the emphasis on reasonable responses and the ability to walk away when trapped in an unhealthy situation. Also the part about not walking away sad...many of us insecure have this idea that being secure is equal to being so strong that you will never be sad or affected by difficult situations. I guess this comes from our vulnerability fear, and all the shame that lies behind it. We worked hard to try and hide our fears and insecurity and shame and fear. Thanks! I think I am very self-aware, yes, not always, not every time, but it's definitely growing more and more. The issue for me has not so much been the lack of awareness and introspection (my various therapists have always said that I have way enough insight and general knowledge) but having enough courage to do what's right (again, out of fear). As for where the AP comes from, I'm also very much aware of the causes (childhood trauma). The struggle is about finding the best way to integrate these memories and building a sense of self that has been more or less destroyed (or at the very least, stunted) by my parents.
as you know, alpenglow, courage is not the absence of fear, it's feeling the fear and doing the next right thing in spite of it. so, you're there. and, that courage includes facing sadness and fallout. very proud of ya! |
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 23, 2018 12:51:30 GMT
Today, I wrote this girl's sister a last message as well, in order not to just disappear from her life without any explanation.
As a reminder, the girl I had a mini-relationship with is currently travelling the world with her (AP) sister. They're very close to each other. For the past month and a half, after the breakup, the three of us kept in touch via a group chat. Her sister's behaviour was the same towards me, but I couldn't adapt to the new relationship dynamic with the one I was romantically involved with.
I realised that I couldn't go NC only with one but not the other (the sister). I would have been constantly reminded of the other one, through pictures on Facebook where she'd be tagged and what not. This annoys me, because I'm still fine with the sister, and she has nothing to do with what happened between her sister and I.
So anyway, I explained this in a message to the sister. She answered me, but of course she doesn't understand why I have to do this. She stated that they both had been sharing a lot with me since they've known me, that I am an important person to them, that they also suffer from abandonment fears like I do etc.
Makes me feel bad and guilty, it's unfortunate collateral damage as far as the sister is concerned, but same as always, I have to think of my own mental health first!
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Post by alpenglow on Aug 23, 2018 13:08:52 GMT
Thanks, juniper! You're right, it's the feeling of fear and doing the right thing in spite of it. I just talked about this with my secure friend. He says just like you all, that even he feels sadness when he has to let go of someone because it threatens his sense of well-being. But that sadness is counterbalanced by a sense of having done the right thing, something which boosts his self-esteem. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 13:16:00 GMT
Thanks, juniper ! You're right, it's the feeling of fear and doing the right thing in spite of it. I just talked about this with my secure friend. He says just like you all, that even he feels sadness when he has to let go of someone because it threatens his sense of well-being. But that sadness is counterbalanced by a sense of having done the right thing, something which boosts his self-esteem. exactly. endings bring sadness. the ability to recognize whatever feeling arises without judging it and making it wrong, is a secure behavior. tolerance for thing inside ourselves that we don't enjoy, things we would like to transform but aren't able to yet, is a secure behavior. and, having our own back, and making the tough choices, the painful choices, in order to honor our personal integrity and well being, is a secure behavior. its like riding a bike- you will wobble and crash a time or two but once you find your balance you'll be able to get to where you want to go. just keep going. |
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you're dealing with all of this on a very mature way. Being this confident will make you choose the good kind of woman for you.
