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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 8:58:29 GMT
Where did I say it gives him the right to touch you? If you read my whole post instead of cherry picking and my ridiculous remarks which cannot be addressed seriously because they're laughable, wait, let me quote that so that we all can laugh together You would have known I wasn't talking about your post but about our perceptions, that it can be faulty and ostracism - like others who were also attacked because you people jump into your own conclusions with madness in your eyes (hence I left, I don't think you can learn much here apart from other members believe in). Yes, I used your DESCRIPTION as an example because it shows how little WE (readers) know but how many assumptions we (again, not you) make and how far (dehumanization) you are willing to take it. Our brain fills the blanks and we take it to extreme, it can lead to awful consequences, at least, it had lead to them in our history. I understand that it's a delicate subject and it could have easily been misunderstood HENCE I wrote (it's also laughable according to you, I assume) *a person, not the guy who was touching you I also asked epicgum because I wasn't sure if I understand him correctly. I'm out from here, and I hope @rockgirl you are too. It's not worth it. No - you didn't state stuff you were accused of nor condone harassment, same as me, but there are a few on here that, as you wrote, don't bother reading properly, cherrypick and then make excuses if that's pointed out plus gaslight, then label and attack because that's what they do... Yes - I'm only dipping in and out of this forum to help some that seem to have gone through what I did, but I won't be reaching "God" status, which particularly one specific character did very, very quickly. I have a life to lead and don't need to be on here all the time. After all, it's proven to be very unhealthy to spend lots of time on social media and internet forums plus when someone has to repeatedly bring up that they are secure and healthy, rather than being recognised that way through their words and actions ... It's a shame that some cannot see that you wrote the following, which is precisely why I previously deleted my account (plus she "blocked' me very early because I disagreed with a comment of hers ...) - it's a shame some others cannot see the this, but they may still have a way to go in their learning / to understand: I'm off this forum , you're a very overbearing person.
and PS. you have a right to disagree but you have no right to be passive aggressive towards others and then pretend (to be) an angel.
Take care @christie - and keep being you x
Most interesting to note that anne has the following under the "Anger' thread: Passive-AggressivePeople with passive-aggressive anger patterns are not outreaching like the aggressive, but they avoid conflict and are passive. They are angry and they are interested in punishing and in conflict, but they prefer to make it hidden. • Anger through the back door - disguised, indirectly • Does not become visibly angry, but sabotages and punishes instead in the hidden - eg by: being late/"forget" things (appointments / deadlines / to reply back to messages, etc.)/refuse to cooperate (say yes to do something but do not do it)/ deny their involvement if confronted/play innocent or stupid ("God, I have not thought about it!")/jam, expose • Punishes with coolness, ignorance and silence • Tends to confuse, irritate and provoke others (consciously but without admitting it) • "Then you can learn it!" • scums instead of saying that you are angry • Sarcasm, suppositories and "out of the side" attacks ( often masked as humor or "ha-ha-it-is-jo-just-for-fun" laughter) |
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 16, 2018 9:50:57 GMT
Well this took a turn! LOL. Just sending out some good juju to you all!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 10:41:31 GMT
whats so weird is the sarcasm was directed at you and your silly comments, and another poster had to jump in and rail against and delete her account about comments that were not even directed at her. i mean, what? maybe she deleted her account because i have a boundary about getting in another circular conversation with her. last time we interacted much it was on a thread where she admitted she went off on tangents and was mostly trying to figure out her ex by engaging. what resulted was her totalky missing things in the dialog because she was concerned about her ex rather than the topic of the post. that's kind of rude, but don't tell her that. DA is the only rude type here lol. maybe she deleted her account because she and her DA boyfriend broke up and she is triggered by stuff really badly. maybe she deleted her account because she gave me too much power. i've deleted my account when the crap got so thick it was a poor use of my time and i had other things i needed to focus on. and there is a ton of twisted crap on this forum more offensive than sarcasm, in my opinion. please. I only registered to say this: No, I deleted my account because I find you to be a very overbearing person who dominates this forum, on many occasions. Moreover, I didn't learn much from here, I don't think it's a place where you can discuss. You either applaud to what is being said or you get gas-lighted. Thank you very much. This comment shows perfectly what kind of, totally NOT passive-aggressive person you are. And the circular conversation you talk about... you were responding to my questions, not to the main thread, you didn't understand what I was asking about because of "multitasking" but you simply were caught up in your own perception that you didn't think "oh, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense". IF I didn't tell you there's a misunderstanding and take the blame on me (so that I don't have to deal with who was right and who wasn't -for obvious reasons) you'd have kept going and I had no intention to deal with it, as I don't have now. And contrariety to you, I do not categorize people into AP, DA, FA, secure categories and judge them based on that. I believe people are more than that. I am not sure if they wrote it in cosmopolitan. My partner and I, are doing fine. Thank you for your concern. Go feed on someone else. Maybe they won't notice what you're doing. And if they do they can blame it on AP witch-hunting and their hate for DAs, because this is always the reason. lol! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 10:41:41 GMT
Where did I say it gives him the right to touch you? If you read my whole post instead of cherry picking and my ridiculous remarks which cannot be addressed seriously because they're laughable, wait, let me quote that so that we all can laugh together You would have known I wasn't talking about your post but about our perceptions, that it can be faulty and ostracism - like others who were also attacked because you people jump into your own conclusions with madness in your eyes (hence I left, I don't think you can learn much here apart from other members believe in). Yes, I used your DESCRIPTION as an example because it shows how little WE (readers) know but how many assumptions we (again, not you) make and how far (dehumanization) you are willing to take it. Our brain fills the blanks and we take it to extreme, it can lead to awful consequences, at least, it had lead to them in our history. I understand that it's a delicate subject and it could have easily been misunderstood HENCE I wrote (it's also laughable according to you, I assume) *a person, not the guy who was touching you I also asked epicgum because I wasn't sure if I understand him correctly. I'm out from here, and I hope @rockgirl you are too. It's not worth it. No - you didn't state stuff you were accused of nor condone harassment, same as me, but there are a few on here that, as you wrote, don't bother reading properly, cherrypick and then make excuses if that's pointed out plus gaslight, then label and attack because that's what they do... Yes - I'm only dipping in and out of this forum to help some that seem to have gone through what I did, but I won't be reaching "God" status, which particularly one specific character did very, very quickly. I have a life to lead and don't need to be on here all the time. After all, it's proven to be very unhealthy to spend lots of time on social media and internet forums plus when someone has to repeatedly bring up that they are secure and healthy, rather than being recognised that way through their words and actions ... It's a shame that some cannot see that you wrote the following, which is precisely why I previously deleted my account (plus she "blocked' me very early because I disagreed with a comment of hers ...) - it's a shame some others cannot see the this, but they may still have a way to go in their learning / to understand: I'm off this forum , you're a very overbearing person.
and PS. you have a right to disagree but you have no right to be passive aggressive towards others and then pretend (to be) an angel.
Take care @christie - and keep being you x
Most interesting to note that anne has the following under the "Anger' thread: Passive-AggressivePeople with passive-aggressive anger patterns are not outreaching like the aggressive, but they avoid conflict and are passive. They are angry and they are interested in punishing and in conflict, but they prefer to make it hidden. • Anger through the back door - disguised, indirectly • Does not become visibly angry, but sabotages and punishes instead in the hidden - eg by: being late/"forget" things (appointments / deadlines / to reply back to messages, etc.)/refuse to cooperate (say yes to do something but do not do it)/ deny their involvement if confronted/play innocent or stupid ("God, I have not thought about it!")/jam, expose • Punishes with coolness, ignorance and silence • Tends to confuse, irritate and provoke others (consciously but without admitting it) • "Then you can learn it!" • scums instead of saying that you are angry • Sarcasm, suppositories and "out of the side" attacks ( often masked as humor or "ha-ha-it-is-jo-just-for-fun" laughter) I am and was well, I simply don't have time. But thank you. "often masked as humor or "ha-ha-it-is-jo-just-for-fun" laughter" - I'm pretty sure that bringing up my personal life I shared here when I clearly stated my reasons (ironically, it's a person who strongly advocates taking someone's at their word) and other comments to redirect attention and undermine me were innocent too. Please. Ultimately, I think people here simply aren't open to more abstract discussions which is a shame, imho; and everything that has at least a shred of big picture thinking is welcomed with aggression. You're either with us or against us- that should be the motto. "Let's get back to dissing the ex." stated by one of the member (in jest, I assume) reflects what this forum is most of the time. The funny thing is, a few days ago in one of my posts I mentioned taking the attachment theory too far. It's also what's happening all over this place, imho. An Update: "lol"- I have no words, even after what you quoted. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 10:44:05 GMT
good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:11:14 GMT
Morning all, well it is here.
Just to add a little twist of fate to the finding a Voice subject..
I was catching up on the thread when my fa/da bf entered to room.
Normally I would turn of my phone and attend to him, but he asked who I was talking/texting and who was Jeb.
With some hesitation and wanting to reasurred him I wasn't talking to a guy behind his back I briefed him a little about what the forum is about and how people support each other and I am learning about attachment and how my early childhood experiences have shaped my adult relationships.
The finding a Voice became an open and a first discussion we have ever properly had.
He went on to talk about how he has noticed and is sometimes uncomfortable with the fact that I do everything for everyone and never complain or ask for anything for myself.
He has noticed how my daughter often disrespects me and how I allow it to happen almost like I fear upsetting her.
Wow.
He expressed he would be happier if I was more assertive with him, in a positive way and demanded a little more from him.
How I need to ask him to cook supper for a change, or go and do the grocery shop and not feel I have to pamper to his every whim.
I got a little upset, I think just hearing his voice and him encouraging me to find mine filled me with hope that perhaps we can make this work and my fear of speaking up or putting any demands or asking for a need to be met might not mean he will run of and abandon me after all.
Apart from our attachments I do often wonder if I need to find a guy similar to my age that has had children and is emotionally more available and can relate to family events more, and share more common ground. But for now I am happy to take each day at a time and feel very encouraged by opening up and having this conversation.
I do realize I am emotionally unavailable too so perhaps we CAN help each other grow and both become more open and available.
Thanks everyone for all your support and contributions 😘
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:16:46 GMT
Morning all, well it is here. Just to add a little twist of fate to the finding a Voice subject.. I was catching up on the thread when my fa/da bf entered to room. Normally I would turn of my phone and attend to him, but he asked who I was talking/texting and who was Jeb. With some hesitation and wanting to reasurred him I wasn't talking to a guy behind his back I briefed him a little about what the forum is about and how people support each other and I am learning about attachment and how my early childhood experiences have shaped my adult relationships. The finding a Voice became an open and a first discussion we have ever properly had. He went on to talk about how he has noticed and is sometimes uncomfortable with the fact that I do everything for everyone and never complain or ask for anything for myself. He has noticed how my daughter often disrespects me and how I allow it to happen almost like I fear upsetting her. Wow. He expressed he would be happier if I was more assertive with him, in a positive way and demanded a little more from him. How I need to ask him to cook supper for a change, or go and do the grocery shop and not feel I have to pamper to his every whim. I got a little upset, I think just hearing his voice and him encouraging me to find mine filled me with hope that perhaps we can make this work and my fear of speaking up or putting any demands or asking for a need to be met might not mean he will run of and abandon me after all. Apart from our attachments I do often wonder if I need to find a guy similar to my age that has had children and is emotionally more available and can relate to family events more, and share more common ground. But for now I am happy to take each day at a time and feel very encouraged by opening up and having this conversation. I do realize I am emotionally unavailable too so perhaps we CAN help each other grow and both become more open and available. Thanks everyone for all your support and contributions 😘 so awesome! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:31:55 GMT
Morning all, well it is here. Just to add a little twist of fate to the finding a Voice subject.. I was catching up on the thread when my fa/da bf entered to room. Normally I would turn of my phone and attend to him, but he asked who I was talking/texting and who was Jeb. With some hesitation and wanting to reasurred him I wasn't talking to a guy behind his back I briefed him a little about what the forum is about and how people support each other and I am learning about attachment and how my early childhood experiences have shaped my adult relationships. The finding a Voice became an open and a first discussion we have ever properly had. He went on to talk about how he has noticed and is sometimes uncomfortable with the fact that I do everything for everyone and never complain or ask for anything for myself. He has noticed how my daughter often disrespects me and how I allow it to happen almost like I fear upsetting her. Wow. He expressed he would be happier if I was more assertive with him, in a positive way and demanded a little more from him. How I need to ask him to cook supper for a change, or go and do the grocery shop and not feel I have to pamper to his every whim. I got a little upset, I think just hearing his voice and him encouraging me to find mine filled me with hope that perhaps we can make this work and my fear of speaking up or putting any demands or asking for a need to be met might not mean he will run of and abandon me after all. Apart from our attachments I do often wonder if I need to find a guy similar to my age that has had children and is emotionally more available and can relate to family events more, and share more common ground. But for now I am happy to take each day at a time and feel very encouraged by opening up and having this conversation. I do realize I am emotionally unavailable too so perhaps we CAN help each other grow and both become more open and available. Thanks everyone for all your support and contributions 😘 so awesome! I know isn't it. Again a testimont to how fear and the what ifs have kept me emotionally unavailable and then allow unnecessary resentments to manifest. I am going to see today as I new day of having an authentic voice and know it will still all be ok, just give it ago, and fingers crossed he can cook lolzzz |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:35:51 GMT
Morning all, well it is here. Just to add a little twist of fate to the finding a Voice subject.. I was catching up on the thread when my fa/da bf entered to room. Normally I would turn of my phone and attend to him, but he asked who I was talking/texting and who was Jeb. With some hesitation and wanting to reasurred him I wasn't talking to a guy behind his back I briefed him a little about what the forum is about and how people support each other and I am learning about attachment and how my early childhood experiences have shaped my adult relationships. The finding a Voice became an open and a first discussion we have ever properly had. He went on to talk about how he has noticed and is sometimes uncomfortable with the fact that I do everything for everyone and never complain or ask for anything for myself. He has noticed how my daughter often disrespects me and how I allow it to happen almost like I fear upsetting her. Wow. He expressed he would be happier if I was more assertive with him, in a positive way and demanded a little more from him. How I need to ask him to cook supper for a change, or go and do the grocery shop and not feel I have to pamper to his every whim. I got a little upset, I think just hearing his voice and him encouraging me to find mine filled me with hope that perhaps we can make this work and my fear of speaking up or putting any demands or asking for a need to be met might not mean he will run of and abandon me after all. Apart from our attachments I do often wonder if I need to find a guy similar to my age that has had children and is emotionally more available and can relate to family events more, and share more common ground. But for now I am happy to take each day at a time and feel very encouraged by opening up and having this conversation. I do realize I am emotionally unavailable too so perhaps we CAN help each other grow and both become more open and available. Thanks everyone for all your support and contributions 😘 Good work Helsbells - glad some of my previous comments were helpful. However, I'm with @christie and won't be contributing much on this forum any longer, due to my concurring with @christie 's view that healthy views expressed here to progress are met with shaming, anger and childlike responses - particularly from those that have stated certain AP traits 'repulse' them (yet they feel they can lecture APs on how they SHOULD behave - see the element of attempted control / power there). anne12 's posts are the most valuable here. Please be careful @helbells - don't get pulled in by the love-bombing and gas-lighting that is prevalent by some here.Remember that learning to / being able to authentically express your your own feelings, emotions and needs without/regardless of conditional payback by others is how you move forward - i.e., stop people-pleasing (although some people will not be pleased when you do this - and they will react, often angrily / aggressively) and learn to feel that anger when your boundaries are over-stepped, express if and when someone has done so (i.e., you can say "I am / feel angry that you did xxx", but don't then express that anger at them") and then express the anger healthily / not at /towards but away from the one that aroused the anger, do it safely. Also, most key, is learning to genuinely love and respect yourself - such that you stop accepting unacceptable behaviour towards yourself from others. Of course some don't want you to learn how to do this / to change / to respect yourself / to express your needs healthily - or they won't be able to manipulate / exploit and take advantage of you anymore... Take care - and goobye |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:40:28 GMT
I know isn't it. Again a testimont to how fear and the what ifs have kept me emotionally unavailable and then allow unnecessary resentments to manifest. I am going to see today as I new day of having an authentic voice and know it will still all be ok, just give it ago, and fingers crossed he can cook lolzzz i love this so much. shake it lol!!!! you have come so far since you got here!!! i'm very proud of the transformation you've obviously worked for and been open to. and i think you will feel much better empowering yourself! |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 16, 2018 12:41:38 GMT
Great insights there epicgum ! I saw a statement today that said that ostracism is THE most painful thing to experience (ref Richard Grannon / Sam Vaknin). I have experienced this (as well as serious life threats / actual harm) - and as black sheep will know, it is incredibly painful / debilitating. You haven't taken it too far - not for me. And there are homeless people are are actually decent human beings... Women are socialised to be pursued, to not be dominant or aggressive ... yet we take a risk walking down an alleyway - it's all a game. Rockgirl and epicgum thank you both so much, such great in sight from both your contributions to this site. I too have felt very ostracized as the black sheep and that feeling left me full of shame and less than. My mother's favourite line was " I don't know where the hell we got you from". It always left me feeling like a freak and "what is so wrong with me. It has made me feel I mustn't be authentic because I'm just not good enough. I was the black sheep also.....one time my mom told me on a drive back from a beach vacation...."it is too bad your brother was unable to get the attention he needed because you required so much of it"...he was 7, I was 10. She told me this when I was in my 40s as if it was something I needed to hear...as if I had not felt the full weight of my differences...my black sheep status my whole life. The other thing she recently toldme was that there was a custody battle over me and my dad won...but he did not want me. Again...how was I to respond? Thanks mom for letting me know how unwanted I was? That the abandonment from my dad was real and not just imagined? Sorry...this is off topic...but it just hit me fresh this morning. Boundary violations don't have to be just physical boundaries. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:53:53 GMT
Morning all, well it is here. Just to add a little twist of fate to the finding a Voice subject.. I was catching up on the thread when my fa/da bf entered to room. Normally I would turn of my phone and attend to him, but he asked who I was talking/texting and who was Jeb. With some hesitation and wanting to reasurred him I wasn't talking to a guy behind his back I briefed him a little about what the forum is about and how people support each other and I am learning about attachment and how my early childhood experiences have shaped my adult relationships. The finding a Voice became an open and a first discussion we have ever properly had. He went on to talk about how he has noticed and is sometimes uncomfortable with the fact that I do everything for everyone and never complain or ask for anything for myself. He has noticed how my daughter often disrespects me and how I allow it to happen almost like I fear upsetting her. Wow. He expressed he would be happier if I was more assertive with him, in a positive way and demanded a little more from him. How I need to ask him to cook supper for a change, or go and do the grocery shop and not feel I have to pamper to his every whim. I got a little upset, I think just hearing his voice and him encouraging me to find mine filled me with hope that perhaps we can make this work and my fear of speaking up or putting any demands or asking for a need to be met might not mean he will run of and abandon me after all. Apart from our attachments I do often wonder if I need to find a guy similar to my age that has had children and is emotionally more available and can relate to family events more, and share more common ground. But for now I am happy to take each day at a time and feel very encouraged by opening up and having this conversation. I do realize I am emotionally unavailable too so perhaps we CAN help each other grow and both become more open and available. Thanks everyone for all your support and contributions 😘 Good work Helsbells - glad some of my previous comments were helpful. However, I'm with @christie and won't be contributing much on this forum any longer, due to my concurring with @christie 's view that healthy views expressed here to progress are met with shaming, anger and childlike responses - particularly from those that have stated certain AP traits 'repulse' them (yet they feel they can lecture APs on how they SHOULD behave - see the element of attempted control / power there). anne12 's posts are the most valuable here. Please be careful @helbells - don't get pulled in by the love-bombing and gas-lighting that is prevalent by some here. Remember that learning to / being able to authentically express your your own feelings, emotions and needs without/regardless of conditional payback by others is how you move forward - i.e., stop people-pleasing (although some people will not be pleased when you do this - and they will react, often angrily / aggressively) and learn to feel that anger when your boundaries are over-stepped, express if and when someone has done so and then express the anger healthily / not at/towards the one that aroused the anger. Also, most key, is learning to genuinely love and respect yourself - such that you stop accepting unacceptable behaviour towards yourself from others. Of course some don't want you to learn how to do this / to change / to respect yourself / to express your needs healthily - or they won't be able to manipulate / exploit and take advantage of you anymore... Take care - and goobye Oh that is such a shame as I have got so much out of your replies and threads. I do think things can go a bit Chinese whispered and people misread/mishear the message then the tread loses track. It's natural to side track with a link to the original op, but it's a shame when it gets personal as we are all bringing something to the table. I don't want to see you or Christie go as I really value you both on this site 😥. Please feel free to PM me if you need to share and want any support. I will be mindful of what you say and try and keep myself, "the ego", in check to see if I continue to grow in a healthy way if I remain on this forum. Take care, you ROCK girl Xx |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:54:40 GMT
Rockgirl and epicgum thank you both so much, such great in sight from both your contributions to this site. I too have felt very ostracized as the black sheep and that feeling left me full of shame and less than. My mother's favourite line was " I don't know where the hell we got you from". It always left me feeling like a freak and "what is so wrong with me. It has made me feel I mustn't be authentic because I'm just not good enough. I was the black sheep also.....one time my mom told me on a drive back from a beach vacation...."it is too bad your brother was unable to get the attention he needed because you required so much of it"...he was 7, I was 10. She told me this when I was in my 40s as if it was something I needed to hear...as if I had not felt the full weight of my differences...my black sheep status my whole life. The other thing she recently toldme was that there was a custody battle over me and my dad won...but he did not want me. Again...how was I to respond? Thanks mom for letting me know how unwanted I was? That the abandonment from my dad was real and not just imagined? Sorry...this is off topic...but it just hit me fresh this morning. Boundary violations don't have to be just physical boundaries. You should read about narcissistic parents, the scapegoat and the golden child, if you haven't already. Maybe it will help somehow. Meanwhile, let's go rockgirl. Farewell to you all. Don't be naive. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 13:07:05 GMT
Just an observation after reading what Anne 12 wrote.
I think my bf is passive aggressive.
The only thing he ever calls me out on when he's fault finding, usually when he's not feeling great about himself, is I sometimes talk over him and don't listen to what he has to say.
Yet he is always falling out with random people and family and friends on social media.
This is something I need to understand and watch out for 😵
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 13:46:30 GMT
Just an observation after reading what Anne 12 wrote. I think my bf is passive aggressive. The only thing he ever calls me out on when he's fault finding, usually when he's not feeling great about himself, is I sometimes talk over him and don't listen to what he has to say. Yet he is always falling out with random people and family and friends on social media. This is something I need to understand and watch out for 😵 i think both parties in an AP/avoidant trap are passive aggressive until they each find their voices. recognizing one's own needs and being able to represent and honor them in the self, leads to being open and available to meet another's needs. but until then, the expression of frustration and pain prevails over healthier communication about needs and feelings. |
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