Finding a Voice

This is so true.  My therapist said that children who are only physically abused a lot of times still love their parents.  If the abuse is mental, the majority of the time, the love is lost.  

Tough thread, but back to you, I think in the midst of it all, you found a voice and stood your ground!  

tnr9...I think it all comes down to hurt people hurt people. I have to look no further than my parents upbringing and background to begin to understand, not excuse, but understand why they raised me in such an insensitive and emotionally and psychologically damaging way. They had no good role models- they had abuse and neglect as their examples. When I look at it in that light, I can better see why they did the things they did. I try to see they came from a place of pain and deep insecurity and I think they loved me in their own way. A way they viewed as appropriate or capable of loving. It doesn’t mean in this acknowledgment that I’m not affected, hurt or disappointed by my upbringing, but it helps me to put it all into context so I can process the big picture. Deeply insecure and damaged parents raise insecure, hurting children. Hopefully with each generation the effects are proportionately less as we learn to heal and better parent. Hugs

Just caught up with this, uh *amazing* thread. Someone wanted a foul called for unnecessary roughness. Instead of trying to follow all the personalities involved and assess blame if any, I'll make an analogy (which some may find cavalier, but it's where my head is this week.)

We got a puppy a month ago. A mini Australian labradoodle named Cooper, he arrived in a travel crate, taken from his mother and siblings, scared and shaken by hours of travel. I noticed in the first weeks how similar his journey was to any child's, with dependence on adults for everything. He could only be calmed to sleep by keeping his crate on the nightstand a few feet from me, where I could reach out and touch him when he cried. A month later, he still cries a little if left alone, but no longer barks for hours or soils his crate in a frenzy. He knows he won't be abandoned and most of the time someone will come if he calls, yet he explores on his own and leaves the safety of proximity to one of us to venture out for minutes to hours at a time.

We took him on his first doggy play date, to meet an older, much larger puppy. Cooper's about 10 lbs, this puppy is six months older and nearing 50 lbs. The big strange puppy wanted to play, and after getting them used to each other a little, we let them go. Big puppy chased and cornered Cooper, who yelped in fear as big puppy nosed him playfully. Puppies in the den learn to play under their mother's care, nipping at each other and gauging from the reaction whether the play is too rough or just right. Big puppy realized he was too rough after a few encounters and the two started to peacefully coexist, still very curious about each other.

This isn't even really a male-female dichotomy; individuals can have any profile of aggression vs. nurturing, but stereotypically (and in real life) the average male will be less sensitive to aggression than the average female. Open physical roughhousing is a male-linked trait, while social sniping is associated with female peer groups. But both sexes "play,' in the form of behavior just stepped back a little from serious hunting/warfare. Play is a kind of practice, a simulated battle to get children ready for a wider, more dangerous world outside their home group.

I think a breakthrough like helsbells' realization above can come out of dialog with others who have very different styles, and I think this site has facilitated a lot of learning. It's regrettable that a few people are not receptive to messages that are not intended to hurt, but which may be perceived as rough by the acutely sensitive lacking good armor. But like play, nothing here can reach into your real world to hurt you. You can try on other ways of thinking and understand more about your relationships with people in your real life by safely encountering the rude, aggressive, dismissive participants in this forum. If you find someone really irritating, you can block them; if you don't like the way a thread is going, you can move on to the next. I don't try to read everything, I wouldn't have time for anything else. And I don't remove or ban people for the occasional less-than-sensitive remark, because those are part of real life and learning to deal is an important skill. Personal attacks and abuse, of course, will be dealt with when reported.

As a reminder, those who want support and diminished dialog with others who might be critical of their choices have "support" forums here. The regular type forums are open to discussion about all aspects of that type, including those who might have harsher critiques about some of the typical behaviors of that type.

Wow, just wow! - some of you are so unaware, you just cannot see just how much you are being manipulated.

I'm outta here - the toxicity on this forum is even worse than when growing up.

You can bet that most of those who were glad to see me go will still be on this forum for a long, long time yet ... because they need a forum to hide in, rather than be on the real world.
It must be nice and comfy in here for those of you, in your comfort zone and able to 'deal' with conflict behind your cyberscreen.
I have podiumed at world level in extreme sport, been in the forces and am also qualified and volunteer in numerous therapies, an IT consultant and an artist. What a waste of my time here!

anne12 - Keep going, you're awesome. But don't be shamed into submission when you stand up for something again, as you were a few months ago.
epicgum - Remember what I said.
@helbells - Try to see through the manipulation and love-bombing, try to see this for what it really is.
Love and kindness to you - but remember to recognise anger, get it out of your body physically and healthily, learn to really love and respect yourselves and to put yourselves first.

Anxious ones - remember to love and respect yourselves, stop being so nice and naive!!! Learn to stand up for yourselves ... you are being so over-powered and controlled on this forum it is stunning. Wow, I used to be like you, a long time ago!

@trn9 - it's a little sad that you don't see how you are being manipulated!

I'm with @christie, off out in the real world - and away from the toxicity of some of the (self-proclaimed) 'gods' here.

For the record, the system puts "god" after your name after you make 500 posts. I think there are multiple people (including myself) who would rather the word "god" be switched to something else.

I asked it to be changed when I reached 500 posts....but I don't think Jeb has any influence over that.