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Post by krolle on Aug 28, 2021 0:33:36 GMT
Introvert. I am not aware of any men's groups in my area. It's possible they exist and I can look. But I imagine the closest thing I could find would be a perhaps a 12 step addiction group. In fact I had a lot of difficulty getting support for my mental health after things were really dangerous with my ex. All the avenues I explored were aimed at women. I imagine domestic 'abuse' is more commonly experienced by women, so it makes sense there would be more services to assist. the closest thing I have found to a support group is online. You guys for example.
Also, regarding what you said in another post. I am familiar with sailing in the great lakes region. And also the trip through the Erie canal and down to the Bahamas. You guys will have blast if that's what you decide to do. Just be careful crossing the gulf stream alone if you're inexperienced
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Post by krolle on Aug 28, 2021 0:34:24 GMT
Annie B. Great input. And I'm glad you have gotten your lateness under check. I'm pretty OCD so that slows me down a lot regardless of any possible ADHD stuff going on too. How were you able to improve punctuality? I like you and Tnr9's advice to just focus on one thing at a time.
Oh yes I agree, there are some real 'superpowers' to being different. So yours is organisation? Have you ever considered being self employed? I heard that's very popular for ADHD types.
Regarding the love bombing. Then I won't deny there is some of that going on, of course subconsciously. And DEFINATELY a big quest for external validation. Especially from women. I don't feel good at all about that now you highlighted it, so I will try tone it down. Of course I never mean to love bomb or cause pain. They're just new and interesting and I have a big capacity to want to learn all about them and pay a lot of attention in that setting.
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Post by krolle on Aug 28, 2021 0:37:35 GMT
tnr9 I will have a look at those videos you linked when I am done work. Do you remember what criteria they used to test you for ADD/ADHD? I really mistrust medical professionals. Again not as 'bad' people. But just people, subject to biases and being duped and whatnot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2021 11:11:32 GMT
hi krolle, I have adhd too; i came here as a triggered AP though. |
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Post by annieb on Aug 28, 2021 15:51:38 GMT
Regarding ADHD meds, I take Adderall XR once a day, but not every day. I don’t take it on days off unless I have some tasks I need to get done. But it is very dehydrating and you have to plan your days around taking it, and timing it, when it comes to food and sleep, but you get used to it. And also coffee consumption has to be in check.
I had tried Adderall and Ritalin when I just got diagnosed and hated them. I took Strattera and it was great for attention, but it was terrible for sleep and also very dehydrating. It gave me migraines for days.
Once I figured out how to work with the medication, I was doing better. The prescribing doctor may not even know how to help you, necessarily with the side effects. For sleep I was prescribed Valium I believe, but I felt I was getting dependent on it and I stopped taking it. I am terrified of getting addicted to a substance.
For dehydration I had to add electrolytes to get the dehydration and migraines in check (Lyteshow Electrolytes on Amazon).
Eventually Strattera started being effective less and less and my doctor gave me Adderall (small dose) on top of it. And then another doctor wanted me off all meds because it raised my blood pressure. Or so they thought. It turned out my high blood pressure was from a faulty thyroid, which I also eventually fixed by another doctor with Armour Thyroid. By that time I was off Strattera and I didn’t want to get back on it, because I had already gone through the two months of discontinuation syndrome and it was daunting to start again. Adderall does not have the discontinuation syndrome it’s in and out of your system on the same day.
And somewhere in the middle of this I also started taking Wellbutrin tor depression which has been a godsend. Probably the best medication to stop rumination.
In terms of my lateness, yesterday I was 3 minutes early, which was simply because I made it a big point to be on time. That was going to be the goal of my morning and it worked. Nothing else mattered as long as I was on time sort of thing. And lo and behold it worked.
I’ve been self employed for long stints and I am still partially self employed, but while it was an exciting time and job there were also some business losses I couldn’t sustain. Some non payment things messed me up. That’s the cost of doing business. I now have a business partner and we are doing better financially, but I also committed to this other job at the same time.
Don’t be ashamed of the lovebombing. I think the most important takeaway is to switch the thinking from how to impress them to “do I really like and love this person”. Am I attracted to them, do I enjoy spring time with them? And to really get to know them over time.
I think I’ve finally learned what a lovebomber does so now I would most likely call them out for excessive flattery or putting me on pedestal, at least I hope so. But we will see what happens if I ever date again.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 29, 2021 8:16:51 GMT
krolle, what needs do novelty in dating versus other novelty in life meet for you? Both are distracting, one also serves for companionship and sex. Past that, what else is going on? And I wonder how your answers will sit against the framework of FA distortions around trust (lack of trust in self or others). I know from your other posts that your life isn't boring! But I also knew why. There's a difference between having an insatiable appetite for distraction so you can keep running (disconnection from self) and living an occasionally satisfying life true to your interests and goals (connection to self). I've always been very active, but it was way more about or out of disconnection from self for most of my life (even though as AP it comes from a slightly different place and manifests slightly differently). More specifically to how this pans out in my life now, my boyfriend and I are both nerdy and hyper intellectual information sponges (shocking, right?) who are just curious about everything and how it works. Which means that, if you really want to be hit over the head with attachment theory and how it relates back to secure parenting according to research lol, together in our relationship, we have a safe base from which to go exploring  And that's really what we're doing most of the time, whether that's literally or intellectually.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 29, 2021 13:05:44 GMT
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Post by amber on Sept 7, 2021 4:54:28 GMT
Part of my attempt at self improvement this past couple of years has been an honest self audit. I got a lot of traction discovering attachment styles, co-dependance and addictive behaviours, and also HSP traits. The labels are not so important. More so the recognition of patterns which allow us to get a basis of understsnding. Then we might improve the quality of our lives. I'd like to start a discussion mostly about ADHD if anyone has any experience. I think Tnr9 might, so invite her, and anyone else's commentary. Any part about your experience with it or knowledge of it would be welcomed. I'd also invite a discussion about the possible link of the titled things. I seem to see quiet similar clusters of traits among people, and wonder the connection. Neurotransmitters seem a likely area for fruitful debate. Hello! pretty sure I have ADHD> have a lot of the traits anyway, havnt been formally diagnosed. Gabor Mate has written an excellent book called 'scatterd minds' all about ADHD. He has the condition himself, interestingly. it goes deeply into the neuropsychosocial explanation of how ADHD is formed. basically what he says based on science is that its an inability to self regulate more than an attention deficit problem. and it occurs due to lack of attunement in infancy when the infants delicate brain is developing. if it doesnt get the right emotional support from a consistent, reliable, loving, attuned parent, parts of the brain that govern emotiona regulation, executive function, attention etc dont develop as well. alongside that the very complex neuro and hormonal systems such as the dopamine and serotonin systems dont develop as well, leading to life long issues with this. but he does have a section on how to help yourself, even as an adult. Steven Porges, the polyvagal king,speaks on this podcast about ADHD, and how it is just nervous system dysregulation more than anything else. really good listen: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/adhd-is-over/id1525639403?i=1000530607227 |
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Post by krolle on Sept 19, 2021 20:02:20 GMT
Thankyou for the input guys. I have been absorbing the information shared by all the people who posted in the thread and appreciate it.
I have been looking into the Pete walker stuff. Some of it is resonating, but a lot of it feels wrong and untrustworthy to me.
I read some excerpts from his book and I just couldn't shake the feeling of melodrama about it, and the desire to blame. I have gotten the same feeling of 'salesmanship' when listening to Gabor mate sometimes. I can't help but see them as salesmen. So my brain won't accept their theories. It's a big part of the lense through which I see the world. Not that people are bad, but that they are selfish, opportunistic and easily misguided, especially when in pain or scared.
Here's what my brain tells me when I read some of the stuff within our sphere of interest:
"Oh goody, here's another 'woe is me' charlatan looking to capitalise on the 'find somebody else to blame for my problems' ethos which in my opinion plagues society in 2021"
Or...
"Great, here's another'guru' trying to promise desperate people hope with some new crackpot but theoretically appealing take on what is basically the placebo effect"
Its not that I dont want to believe a lot of contemporary psychology, the problem is that the message I get from them just doesn't correlate with my own experience.
Some of the most emotionally healthy people I know who are in the most secure relationships grew up with massive trauma, neglectful parents, or in a few cases, no stable parents at all for a couple of my friends that came through the adoption system.
I know dozens of people who's parents were drunks, voilent, narcassistic etc. You name it. And it seems to only loosely correlate with their psychological and relational health as far as I can see.
I also really mistrust the way psychology has to often rely on questionnaires and surveys to collect data. For example some of the BPD research I look at occasionally. They said that development of BPD correlates with severe childhood trauma. But when I look at the data collection method it says "patients REPORT a history of childhood abuse" But I know damn well from first hand experience people with the condition just often completely fabricate things that go on in their lives. Not out of malicious intent. But because emotion affects the lense through which their memories are formed. The same way my cynicism effects me. As evidenced by this post. Of course I'm sure there are lots of people with personality disorders who have genuinely been through some very intense big T trauma. But the correlation seems vague and I can't trust it.
I basically can't help but invalidate my own experience. I just can't remember anything so traumatic in my childhood that would be causing me to fail so bad at being a human. Not compared to the suffering and trauma other people have had, and turned out fine.
It's one of the reasons I have been exploring Neuro divergence. Hopefully as a productive avenue to help explain why I'm doing so much worse than my peers despite trying really hard to succeed in several areas of life and having ostensibly a 'decent' childhood.
Sorry for the rant.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 19, 2021 20:31:08 GMT
krolle, a few things. First, there are genetic components to how people respond to trauma and early experiences. While I personally do believe environment and nurture plays a bigger role than nature in trauma (if you're growing up in a healthy environment without trauma, you're much less likely to develop emotional issues than if you don't have a genetic disposition to mental issues but grow up with abuse or trauma), the way you respond is still in part due to genetic disposition. For example, some people are more inclined to develop a PD in childhood than others. The same person may respond to abuse or trauma of different magnitude by developing an insecure attachment style or developing a PD. It's not all predictable exactly which way it will go because we have different biological makeups and what causes different mental health issues from a biological standpoint isn't that well understood. So comparing yourself and your "lack" of big-T trauma to others is kind of irrelevant because you may simply have different dispositions at play. Plus, big-T trauma and 1,000 little cuts don't necessarily need to result in wildly different outcomes. Second, again in regards to making assumptions about other people. Have you spoken to the people you know who you perceive had really rough childhoods how they dealt with it? Do you know what kind of work, introspection, healing, maturing, whatever they did to get to where they could have healthy relationships? How long it took them? Why are you assuming they just grew up and had no problems, just were stable all along and there's no correlation? My take is it's faaaar more likely that they either went through a lot of growth to deal with it, they aren't as stable and secure as you think but are more stable and secure than you (since you often say you don't understand what security looks like), and/or they still have their struggles but found partners with compatible baggage and are reasonably stable and functional to the public eye. Which probably still means they worked on some stuff. If you are getting warning bells, it's both good to question why (is it you or is it them). I think citing that they write too much about casting blame is a fine reason to feel distrustful, and if you can't trust them they may not be the sources that work for you. And then there's no point in wasting your time with those if you're not open to them or frankly if you disagree and they actually are wrong. In regards to blame, I haven't read the specific sources you're citing and can't comment. But the approach to blame I find constructive is acknowledging that while something may not have been your fault, 1. still accepting it happened and you need to deal with the consequences and 2. taking responsibility for how you deal with those consequences going forward now that you're aware, and what you want to change / accomplish. Absolving yourself or someone else of blame doesn't mean not having to deal with whatever it is, it just means understanding you didn't cause it and it was out of your control, but it still happened and needs to be accepted.
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Post by anne12 on Sept 20, 2021 6:55:44 GMT
krolle If you think that you might be neurodivergent - asperger, adhd or whatever then why don’t you contact an expert in the field. I have seen it as a big relief for people (and their partners) when they get to know about their quirks, challenges and special talents and then they are better able to inform a partner, get special tools so that there will be less misunderstandings in the relationship. @shiningstar made this thread jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2988/neurodivergence-attachment-issuesI have dated a higly intelligent “well functioning”, with high academic achievements, outgoing asperger man once. He never told me that he had asperger and some of his actions and his mindblindness made me so confused. The relationship lasted 3 months. I met his mother and his son and then I could tell that they were struggling with some of the same issues in different ways.
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Post by krolle on Sept 20, 2021 15:59:44 GMT
Thankyou anne12 I will check out the thread. I think I may have come across it once or twice during my perusals. Your description of dating that guy does sound familiar. I have been told I'm ..'different' by many of my partners. But they never really elaborated. I also have quiet a few other traits that suggest something is going on. For example I have pretty bad OCD too, plus a lot of struggles throughout my life socially and romantically. Usually misunderstandings by one party or the other. How does one get in touch with an expert? |
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Post by krolle on Sept 20, 2021 16:16:49 GMT
krolle, a few things. First, there are genetic components to how people respond to trauma and early experiences. While I personally do believe environment and nurture plays a bigger role than nature in trauma (if you're growing up in a healthy environment without trauma, you're much less likely to develop emotional issues than if you don't have a genetic disposition to mental issues but grow up with abuse or trauma), the way you respond is still in part due to genetic disposition. For example, some people are more inclined to develop a PD in childhood than others. The same person may respond to abuse or trauma of different magnitude by developing an insecure attachment style or developing a PD. It's not all predictable exactly which way it will go because we have different biological makeups and what causes different mental health issues from a biological standpoint isn't that well understood. So comparing yourself and your "lack" of big-T trauma to others is kind of irrelevant because you may simply have different dispositions at play. Plus, big-T trauma and 1,000 little cuts don't necessarily need to result in wildly different outcomes. Second, again in regards to making assumptions about other people. Have you spoken to the people you know who you perceive had really rough childhoods how they dealt with it? Do you know what kind of work, introspection, healing, maturing, whatever they did to get to where they could have healthy relationships? How long it took them? Why are you assuming they just grew up and had no problems, just were stable all along and there's no correlation? My take is it's faaaar more likely that they either went through a lot of growth to deal with it, they aren't as stable and secure as you think but are more stable and secure than you (since you often say you don't understand what security looks like), and/or they still have their struggles but found partners with compatible baggage and are reasonably stable and functional to the public eye. Which probably still means they worked on some stuff. If you are getting warning bells, it's both good to question why (is it you or is it them). I think citing that they write too much about casting blame is a fine reason to feel distrustful, and if you can't trust them they may not be the sources that work for you. And then there's no point in wasting your time with those if you're not open to them or frankly if you disagree and they actually are wrong. In regards to blame, I haven't read the specific sources you're citing and can't comment. But the approach to blame I find constructive is acknowledging that while something may not have been your fault, 1. still accepting it happened and you need to deal with the consequences and 2. taking responsibility for how you deal with those consequences going forward now that you're aware, and what you want to change / accomplish. Absolving yourself or someone else of blame doesn't mean not having to deal with whatever it is, it just means understanding you didn't cause it and it was out of your control, but it still happened and needs to be accepted. Thankyou for the wise words alexandra I do agree with most of what you said. And certainly both nature and nurture play significant roles. But I share your opinion nurture can trump nature in some arenas. Take for example aggressive breeds of dogs. I have known many raised to be placid gentle creatures when raised by a gentle kind old man I once knew. Whether the nature behaviours fully become extinct though in those situations or are simply dormant is of course the concern with both animals and humans. I think for me NOT having any big T trauma (that I can remember) and being so dysfunctional is a source of shame. I imagine that train of thought is quiet common. Something along the lines of :"What right do I have to be this way when so many others had worse times and turned out better". I suppose at least part of working out if I am neurodivergent is simply to help with self compassion. I know something is wrong, but without those labels it's hard for me to be compassionate for my struggles. I know the folly in this type of thinking but can't help it. I'm not the sort of person to seek attention, compensation or even recognition from others regarding labels or diagnosees. But I do need it to validate myself. |
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Post by krolle on Sept 20, 2021 16:26:51 GMT
alexandra Regarding my friends who had rough childhoods. I know some had intensive therapy, others who simply 'got on with it and turned out good' I agree with your proposal that individual nature likely had a lot to do with these outcomes. Really what you had to say is sound and it's just my cynical nature trying to poke holes in anything that might be even slightly optimistic. Anything that is positive has to be vetted by my mind with absolute scrutiny or it cannot be trusted. I treat many things in life with a guilty until proven innocent attitude. Yes, I know its not a very functional way to do things. But it is the way I have been for so long. Too many examples of repetition plus emotion drilling mistrust into my subconscious. Regarding the literature I mentioned. On second thought, I only read excerpts and my judgement of them might have been premature. Though I stand by my skepticism on questionnaires as a valid method of acquiring scientific results in testing. And feel frustrated when results are published as accurate based on them.
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Post by annieb on Sept 20, 2021 16:39:11 GMT
krolle - when I read some of your writing, and detailing of shame you feel and lack of trust in therapy, denying yourself treatment, the discomfort of being selfish etc. It really resonates to me as a trauma response.
I may have mentioned that my big T did not come up until I was 34 and in therapy. I had suppressed a memory of molestation, so it was obviously significant enough for my brain to suppress.
Thinking about it, I guess it could have be worse since I was molested by a family member and not a stranger 😅. But you know what I mean. If you have trauma response, like it looks like you do, it’s really hard to wrap my head around the fact you didn’t have any trauma growing up. It almost looks like an anomaly. Obviously not an expert, but from my own experience and everyone else who has shared and what I’ve observed over the years.
And if you were neurodivergent, it would probably make it harder to process trauma and not easier. A diagnosis could possibly give you the tools that are available such as medication and techniques to cope.
Do you have health insurance? You could start by looking up psychologists or therapists, or social workers in your network and see if you can make an appointment. Every time you will set something up, you will be tending to self care and that will start changing you. Change is scary even if it is a good change.
If there is an AA or CoDA meeting available in your area. I pop into CoDA meetings every once in a while and they are most helpful. Insofar that you know you’re not alone and that you’re most likely extremely hard on yourself. A group meeting will take some of that burden off you. But again - are you ready for that change? Are you ready to have lack of anxiety and warm silence in your brain. Peace and quiet. Self love. Can you handle it? 😂
Best of luck to you!
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And that's really what we're doing most of the time, whether that's literally or intellectually. 