dexter
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Post by dexter on Sept 7, 2021 6:53:15 GMT
So, question is - I am stable with my availability even if she withdraws. Shouldn't that be OK? I wanted to answer this question since you've gotten good responses but it hadn't been addressed. The answer is no, because even though you're available you're not feeling okay about it. You're not even really okay with her needing space though you're attempting to rationalize it because you do know she needs it. So it is still reflecting poor boundaries and insecurity on both sides, stuffing down your needs and bending in hopes she'll eventually come around the way you'd prefer. Which makes it co-dependent and occasionally manipulative, not stable. It is secure when you are genuinely feeling okay taking the time apart during her withdrawal because you're doing your own thing and don't need to fixate or ruminate on the space or behavior. But then after it happens for the very first time in the relationship, while you were not obsessing when it happened because you didn't take it personally, you can still not want someone who acts that way. Secure is at that point you would have told her you were not okay with her withdrawal, and as annie said, you then try to work through it together. If you can, you stay together. If she continues to act the same without regard to you not wanting a partner who needs to withdraw to gain space and re-regulate, then you're not compatible and you break up. Even if it sucks because you're attached. You still don't continuously engage in unhealthy dysfunction. You're years past establishing a healthy team-based response to her need for space now and you're well into this insecure dynamic, but as you already said there's mutually no respect. Both of you act the way you do to try to get your own needs met in an unhealthy dysfunctional way. If you show up when she needs but do it while angry / fearful / upset / distrustful about it and start a fight, out of martyrdom, or have any other agenda around it with negative energy and you're not just showing up because you want to... or worse, you let your AP protest behaviors make you play games so sometimes you show up and sometimes you don't in hopes you'll be chased and validated... then it's not secure or stable that you always show up. Again, it's co-dependent.
I don't know really. Don't know my real capacity for intimacy in this relationship, because when I am anxious, my needs are tremendous. When I am calm, they are not. So I need to figure it out through fixing myself probably. Need to reach my healthy level of neediness/space. Analogically, her capacity for intimacy is unstable as well. Ranging from closing absolutely, to being open for closeness, depending on her level of fear, according to theory and my observations. So we both need to heal and be stable. And I consider it very uneasy process when staying in relationship for both of us.
That is how I perceive "incompatibility" in AP/avoidant dynamics.
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 7, 2021 7:00:46 GMT
dexter - I think there is some excellent & comprehensive advice on this thread, that should help you decide the next steps. Remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I hope you choose the appropriate road. All the best.
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Post by annieb on Sept 7, 2021 13:29:06 GMT
You are reacting to her behavior, but through your own lens and you make a lot of assumptions about what she means. That’s very narcissistic. You’re basically feeling shit on the inside, but you’re making it out like it’s coming from her. If you can make that connection and catch yourself you can change that. All of it. With therapy your own individual therapy you can change all of it. It’s not going to be easy or fast, but it’s possible.
Comedy style plot twist here. She called me in the morning.
She didn't upgrade android phone. Earlier she has set chat messaging with me, and when she skips upgrading software, we don't receive text messages sent to each other. So it happen. I thought she was ghosting, she thought I was fed up with everything.
At Sunday, she texted me, that I am right, she want to be alone with a kid because she need to self-regulate, appreciated my approach and confirmed Tuesday meeting.
I mean all things considering, this is a pretty good communication. Enjoy your time with your son! Bring bread!! |
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dexter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by dexter on Sept 7, 2021 22:13:24 GMT
Thank you very much! It was great  I do not feel comfortable enough to call him openly "my son". Internally I treat him like he is "my blood", can't see any difference when I try to find out how would I treat emotionally my own, biological son. But I never vocalized it that way, although his mom says "our boy". He has his own dad, not engaged, but he is out there. Don't want to interfere, if you know what I mean. Just doin my job and feel very good, satisfied and proud of him. He is just so great! Anyway, she initiated talk on att stuff. She took some tests online, scored quite high on avoidant and average on anxious. So it possibly confirms she is FA. And her actions confirms that even more I think. She wants to look for an att specialist. And today I had my own therapy session. We were discussing my AP protest behaviours. I found 3 out of 7 most significant. Interesting approach, explains much to me. |
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Post by anne12 on Sept 8, 2021 9:15:39 GMT
The bonus family - Netflix (4th season is being released soon) vimeo.com/207610465Synopsis: Bonusfamiljen (The Bonus Family) centres around a new couple, Patrick and Lisa, who fall in love and start a new family. But since they both have children and ex partners - and now bonus children - life is complicated in an ordinary every day way! Created by Felix Herngren, Clara Herngren, Moa Herngren and Calle Marthin who live in bonus families, the series is inspired by their experiences and bonus families in general: how people who have no choice in the matter are required to share a life together, leading to both unexpected heartache and laughter at related comic moments. How far are Patrick and Lisa willing to go to make it work? Case study talk about the series vimeo.com/208165857And yes there are also some dysfunktional exes ect…(Ap, da, fa types) |
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Post by annieb on Sept 8, 2021 15:09:49 GMT
Thank you very much! It was great I do not feel comfortable enough to call him openly "my son". Internally I treat him like he is "my blood", can't see any difference when I try to find out how would I treat emotionally my own, biological son. But I never vocalized it that way, although his mom says "our boy". He has his own dad, not engaged, but he is out there. Don't want to interfere, if you know what I mean. Just doin my job and feel very good, satisfied and proud of him. He is just so great! Anyway, she initiated talk on att stuff. She took some tests online, scored quite high on avoidant and average on anxious. So it possibly confirms she is FA. And her actions confirms that even more I think. She wants to look for an att specialist. And today I had my own therapy session. We were discussing my AP protest behaviours. I found 3 out of 7 most significant. Interesting approach, explains much to me. There is really only one logical solution to this, which is adoption. |
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dexter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by dexter on Sept 9, 2021 8:29:33 GMT
There is really only one logical solution to this, which is adoption.
But it's really fine as it is. He has his dad, calls him dad, he visits him once a week or two for 2hrs. They watch TV, so no real bond between them, but he's out there. Plus, we aren't married with his mother, and even not in commited relationship at the moment.
We experience difficulties with boy's return to preschool. Yesterday it was unsuccesful, he was very dramatizing. I couldn't help, because I was away at work from early morning. He stayed with nanny/housekeeper. She asked me if I can come next day (today), and we will try together. It was hard, he cried, yelled, drama mixed with comedy. But we did it, and I was really amazed how determined she was (I recognize her as bit overcaring, and her son is always in the center of universe), more determined and stronger than me - great flip of roles. Good teamwork, really.
Anyway, what I want to say, is that I am happy and anxious together. I act as a husband and a father. We act as a family. All of that brings me closer to her. I came early morning (bringing bread!  and she opened me in jeans trousers and bra only. My blood boiled and I felt so attracted to her, first time since our break up in July.
I am axious, because I am afraid. Our 3,5 year history was rollercoaster. We've both acted insecurely, pursuing love, and switched in the role of pursuer. I discussed it in my therapy. I know that I acted unnaturally, using distancing (consciously and/or subcounsciously - AP protest behaviour) to raise temperature. Now I've decided to CUT THIS DANCE by acting as I really feel and be authentic. Stable. And so, I am afraid that she will put me into bizarre (witch "family/father" component) friendzone. She did it with one of her exes, which was silent-type AP and just forgot about his needs without complaining. They even stopped kissing and cuddling, finally she dumped him because he had no "masculine strenght" (which she found in me, praising my masculinity). So, I am afraid that she can only feel "love" (sparks, passion, chemistry) when she has to "earn" that love.
Do I need to always worry?
Today I feel I crave for intimacy with her and it hurts.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 9, 2021 12:33:40 GMT
There is really only one logical solution to this, which is adoption.
But it's really fine as it is. He has his dad, calls him dad, he visits him once a week or two for 2hrs. They watch TV, so no real bond between them, but he's out there. Plus, we aren't married with his mother, and even not in commited relationship at the moment.
We experience difficulties with boy's return to preschool. Yesterday it was unsuccesful, he was very dramatizing. I couldn't help, because I was away at work from early morning. He stayed with nanny/housekeeper. She asked me if I can come next day (today), and we will try together. It was hard, he cried, yelled, drama mixed with comedy. But we did it, and I was really amazed how determined she was (I recognize her as bit overcaring, and her son is always in the center of universe), more determined and stronger than me - great flip of roles. Good teamwork, really.
Anyway, what I want to say, is that I am happy and anxious together. I act as a husband and a father. We act as a family. All of that brings me closer to her. I came early morning (bringing bread! and she opened me in jeans trousers and bra only. My blood boiled and I felt so attracted to her, first time since our break up in July.
I am axious, because I am afraid. Our 3,5 year history was rollercoaster. We've both acted insecurely, pursuing love, and switched in the role of pursuer. I discussed it in my therapy. I know that I acted unnaturally, using distancing (consciously and/or subcounsciously - AP protest behaviour) to raise temperature. Now I've decided to CUT THIS DANCE by acting as I really feel and be authentic. Stable. And so, I am afraid that she will put me into bizarre (witch "family/father" component) friendzone. She did it with one of her exes, which was silent-type AP and just forgot about his needs without complaining. They even stopped kissing and cuddling, finally she dumped him because he had no "masculine strenght" (which she found in me, praising my masculinity). So, I am afraid that she can only feel "love" (sparks, passion, chemistry) when she has to "earn" that love.
Do I need to always worry?
Today I feel I crave for intimacy with her and it hurts.
Craving someone is usually an indication of wanting them to help you regulate your fears…it is a very typical AP behavior when faced with a fear of loss of the relationship. I believe anne12 has some good posts in the AP section on how to self regulate. You may want to give those a read. |
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dexter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by dexter on Sept 9, 2021 13:16:32 GMT
Yes, I'am aware of regulating my fears through intimacy with partner, opposed to aut-regulation presented by avoidants. But I feel it differently. I don't want to cuddle with her. What I felt today was a pure desire for a woman. When i stepped in in the morning, I felt no anxiety (few last days I was very low on that feeling). I felt good, got good and calm emotions towards her. Anxiety raised when I realised that I may be loosing my attractivness in her eyes due to being available and stable. And that conclusion comes from our rollercoaster history. Whe we've rollercoasted and she was deactivated I did not crave for sex. I know AP's uses sex as reasurrance often, me too, but not primarily. What I needed in times of her being avoidant, was vocalized reasurrance and just getting close again. Sex was next step, and it was good (great) when I felt mostly reasurred of her being again close to me. Generally when she was deactivated, I've lost my interest in sex with her. Just like what happened in July when we split.
I was thinking of it as setting boundaries. I will not go for everything with a person that is avoiding me. And it was kinda "automatic". Maybe that was something that triggered her to pursue me again? Just a thought.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 13, 2021 16:01:52 GMT
Yes, I'am aware of regulating my fears through intimacy with partner, opposed to aut-regulation presented by avoidants. But I feel it differently. I don't want to cuddle with her. What I felt today was a pure desire for a woman. When i stepped in in the morning, I felt no anxiety (few last days I was very low on that feeling). I felt good, got good and calm emotions towards her. Anxiety raised when I realised that I may be loosing my attractivness in her eyes due to being available and stable. And that conclusion comes from our rollercoaster history. Whe we've rollercoasted and she was deactivated I did not crave for sex. I know AP's uses sex as reasurrance often, me too, but not primarily. What I needed in times of her being avoidant, was vocalized reasurrance and just getting close again. Sex was next step, and it was good (great) when I felt mostly reasurred of her being again close to me. Generally when she was deactivated, I've lost my interest in sex with her. Just like what happened in July when we split.
I was thinking of it as setting boundaries. I will not go for everything with a person that is avoiding me. And it was kinda "automatic". Maybe that was something that triggered her to pursue me again? Just a thought.
It may be that when you can’t regulate your fears with a partner…your next choice is to have sex with any woman…which is still choosing an outlet outside of yourself to regulate your nervous system….some people turn to drugs or alcohol or shopping or work or risk taking….same idea…just different avenues to regulate. As long as you are upfront about it…then there is no problem…but if you have sex with someone and don’t make that part clear…that is when your regulation becomes using someone else. At this point, I would spend more time being curious about your own behavior then analyzing hers. |
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dexter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by dexter on Sept 14, 2021 9:02:02 GMT
I've never engaged in sexual encounters when being in relationship or post-break up. Never engaged in rebound relationship as well. After break up I usually stayed alone to "go back to normal", which took 6 up to 12 months. It doesn't apply for causal dating I did in my late 20'ies, but I had no serious relationships at the the time (that period took around 2 yrs). So its not my way to cope with my experience of abandonment. Yes, it was painful, but I recovered on my own with help of friends, work and hobbies. Once I even did a month trip to Africa to leave everything behind 
Does always desire for sex with a partner that you feel close to, must be related to AP's nervous system regulation? C'mon, she's just georgeous and available, caring and initiating (at this moment, hahah)
She sign up for next week to a therapist that is well known and specialised in att theory.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 14, 2021 16:03:07 GMT
Does always desire for sex with a partner that you feel close to, must be related to AP's nervous system regulation? No. Always desiring sex in a relationship (versus casual situation) for anxiety relief, either because sex is seen primarily as about getting validated that the other person won't abandon you (logic being they wouldn't be interested in reaffirming the connection through sex if about to leave) or primarily because the attraction to the other person is based on their perceived "value" (they are so physically attractive or great in some way that it gives you an ego boost to know you have a partner society would give high value so it's really about how it reflects on you), rather than about your connection to each other, is related to AP or anxious FA nervous system regulation. |
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Post by annieb on Sept 14, 2021 16:09:30 GMT
]Does always desire for sex with a partner that you feel close to, must be related to AP's nervous system regulation? C'mon, she's just georgeous and available, caring and initiating (at this moment, hahah)
Think back to the moments you didn’t want to touch her, because of you fear. Compare to what that felt like and what it feels like now and what inside you has changed. Does your confidence rising make you see her in a more positive way? Is your confidence rising? As you love yourself more, are you loving her more as well?
When she dismisses you, does she cement your own beliefs of being unlovable? If she dismisses you when you love yourself, what do you think you would say or do?
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dexter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by dexter on Sept 15, 2021 8:46:21 GMT
Think back to the moments you didn’t want to touch her, because of you fear. Compare to what that felt like and what it feels like now and what inside you has changed. Does your confidence rising make you see her in a more positive way? I don't know if it fear-driven. It's more like a feeling "I don't want closeness with someone that doesn't want me". I rather think of it as a balance. Still, it's on a conscious level. My view of her is stable and positive. It was different before I've read about attachment theory, I couldn't understand her behaviour. Now the puzzles comes together into one picture. So yes, I see her in positive way, with understanding and acceptance, which doesn't mean she is the right person for me and vice versa.
Is your confidence rising? Yes, definately. I put much more trust to myself, and to her as well. As you love yourself more, are you loving her more as well? Yes, but it is different from "anxious love", less intense but much warmer, not hotter if you know what I mean. When she dismisses you, does she cement your own beliefs of being unlovable? If she dismisses you when you love yourself, what do you think you would say or do? Again, on a conscious level I believe I am lovable. If I can love myself, than there is someone that can love me too, right? But I think I still question it somewhere under my skin. I can feel it. But my recent change, thanks to learning att theory and my therapy is to not take her behaviours from the past personally. That helps a lot to work with my self-esteem and confidence with who I am and what I want from relationship. And that is the answer what I will feel and do if she dismisses me. There will be lot of anxiety inside me, of course. Question is about origin of that anxiety. I know that there are other women and I know I can live for myself. But there is a though of losing best girl I have ever had in my life (putting on a pedestal or is it true? - my friends told me that I won a lottery - but they do not know...). There is also (primarily?) a great fear of losing so much we've built together - including our "family". |
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Sept 22, 2021 9:19:55 GMT
Hi, Quick update We're both very busy. Me with work and she with work and studying for a her second medical specialization. So I am helping her with kid, shopping, etc. Well, when we were in "official" relationship I've supported her strongly to go for it, and promised that I will help her. So here I am. She bought me few pair of socks. Every time she bought me socks, things were really well between us. Ok, let's be more serious. Yesterday she had her first meeting with attachment theory psychologist. It hit her. Initially she wanted to attend alone, but she asked me if I would come with her next time and begin couple therapy. I agreed. Still, there are some tensions between us in matter of raising a kid. Things that I believe in "secure" couple wouldn't be a problem that affects relationship. Just 10 minutes of discussing kid's behaviour and strategy for us as a parents. And just move on. |
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and she opened me in jeans trousers and bra only. My blood boiled and I felt so attracted to her, first time since our break up in July. 
