|
|
Post by mrob on Nov 7, 2021 15:17:03 GMT
The last thing I read was four pages ago, so please forgive me if I don’t know who is who. krolle, the boot is on the other foot. It’s not comfortable being triggered anxious by behaviour that we’ve done ourselves as FA people. When this has happened to me, and it has a few times since finding out about this stuff, I’m able to see it for what it is and think about those women I really messed around in ignorance. Maybe payback is a b()ch, and I’ve got to wear it. I’ve cried properly for relationships since I’ve been here. I’ve begged, and I never would have before. It’s a part of the growth process. I’ve had to block women because I know they’ll circle back, which I’ve never done before. For the first time, I know how they will behave very soon after meeting them. It’s incredible. People give themselves away. Thank God for the tough love I got here as well as the empathy. Am I sorry you’re going through this? Right now, the anguish would be unimaginable for most people. The key is to see this how it is in stark daylight and learn something from it. Then it’s not wasted. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Nov 7, 2021 15:26:52 GMT
I haven't done anything yet. Stuck in a state of paralysis or freeze. Wrote a million possible responses. And ruminated heavily. I'm looking for certainty where there is none. It's quiet possible I won't respond due to being too scared to "do something wrong" and regret it. I don't know whether thats a good thing or not. It's taking an enormous amount of energy just 'being' at the moment. Plus not sleeping well of course. concentrating at work is next to impossible. I'm really angry still. I'm angry at her gaslighting me and stringing me along. That whilst she does everything she can to dodge guilt I feel like the worry and blame fell on me. I hate how she said made her feel unwanted, because I feel like I really tried this time. But I know any attempt from me to communicate my anger will fall on deaf ears. I feel like I just want to tell her I know your game! kinda thing. There's a strong desire for me to call attention to behaviour I feel hurt me. Not necessarily the break up. But the breadcrumbing, gaslighting, mixed signals, drawing this out for weeks..... I don't like the idea of letting her go guilt free. That's probably very immature of me. And I know it's very unlikely she intentionally hurt me. Just acted very mindlessly and neglectful. I think it's really good to be aware of what you're feeling, like this. Something that was true for me, which may or may not be your experience, is that I was able to allow all these things to be there at once, and I could deal with them individually as I chose. So all this could be true at one time: I'm angry at the things you did and said, and the impact that it had on me. ( I want to express that to you.) I see you as ugly, and that you meant harm to me! (I will not hurt you with that, it's my own pain and defense .) I see me as ugly too. (This hurts and I need to unpack and get support for it). I can see you as perhaps flawed but not malicious, You're not ugly. (I will remind myself of this and can express that to you if appropriate). I can also see myself as flawed but not malicious. (I can find grace for both of ours but I want to figure out a way to prevent this kind of damage from happening again.) This reminds me of all the times I ever felt this way and I feel enraged!!! (I will express strong anger and hurt, process and find resolution with a safe, appropriate support system, it's not yours to bear.) And other such things.... it doesn't have to be one way or the other, I don't have to make people pay for my original wound but I can create accountability in myself and in my relationships for what is happening NOW, between adults. I don't know, maybe this can help you sort out what you would like to say, if anything, and what you would like to work through on a deeper level with safe people, and good boundaries. How are you doing? I think your right. To be able to have whole object relations is probably useful to me right now. But of course the triggered nervous system wants black and white thinking. It wants someone inherently and unoquivocably "evil" to lash out at. The nuances of ethics are lost in this maelstrom of emotional pain. But I will think about what you said as much as I can..... As for how I'm doing then I'm not sure. In terms of raw discomfort then I would say the waves of intolerable pain are slightly less frequent and intense. As to be expected with the effect of time on things. But cognitively, and somewhat emotionally I really miss her. I really felt a strong connection and appreciated a lot about her, or at least a lot of the facade she showed me. Some of which may or may not have been real. I think there will be residual pain around this loss for a while. One of the hardest things to overcome has been the uncertainty of things. not knowing if it was just an attachment trigger shutdown? what was lies? what was real? Was I just a rebound? Did she even like me? just validation? so much of her behaviour was incongruent it's hard to work anything out. We're the good times even 'real? The obscuring nature of her has mind on overdrive. Just a few of weeks ago we slept together and had sex a bunch of times in one night, stayed up until 5am talking, laughing etc. And then just suddenly stonewalled. Excised from her life like a tumour or something. It's crazy making. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Nov 7, 2021 15:46:27 GMT
krolle, two questions I have after reading your post that may help you with your introspection. 1. What would create feelings of regret if you sent something? You're unlikely to get the response from her you want no matter what you say (in part as your own attachment issues are layered over the pain that's directly from her, so it's not only about her and she can't take away the other layers of pain she didn't cause) so what's to regret? There's no wrong decision here. 2. You've been on her side of this. What impact would hearing back from the woman might have made you feel? How might you have responded? Especially from an unaware mindset? I suppose regret would be making my pain worse somehow by trying to reach out, compounded by my own FA perfectionism. But countered by the uncertainty of her feelings. The anxious part of me thinks there might still be a chance. And The way I know my own avoidant side. There could be. Whether its healthy or not even if it does come back around is wild speculation. I remember being almost physically repulsed by one of my exes when she was being controlling and aggresive toward me around a break up, all I could focus on was things like cellulite on her legs and the way she sweated pretty bad lol. But then 6 months later being extremely aroused by the thought of her and remembering just how sexy she was, the colour of her eyes and memory of the shape of her hips were intoxicating. And I kept getting nostalgia of how her hair smelled when we hugged in bed. If she had showed up at my door at that time I would have just about married her lol. It's unbelievable the level of cognition our nervous system/subconscious controls. In terms of hearing back from someone I recently broke up with and how I would feel would depend on a number of factors. If they were very clingy and pressuring and I had emotionally tapped out a while before, any contact from then would just be a burden and hard to generate the motivation to respond to in a timely fashion. Though I likely woukd out of guilt. Unless they had been particularly hostile at the end. If I was unsure about the break up I might be open to talk if they were really sincere and understanding. But the line of tolerance would be very fine in terms of shut down. If they said the slightest thing that indicated a threat to me I would shut down. And finally if there was a new 3rd party on the scene It would be all but futile for them to contact me. My needs are being met by a new exciting source of neurochemistry and the ex just represents threat and discomfort. Probably people in general, but definately us FA's are very parasitic. We use people (unconsciously) to meet needs we can't ourselves. So if she gets hurt and I represent an easy way to soothe that I might be a viable option then. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 16:35:02 GMT
I'd caution against censoring yourself for fear it will shut her down or turn her off or offend her so she won't come back. Not that you're thinking of doing that. But no sense keeping someone around who treats you like dog crap. Literally- throwing you out like dog crap and then returning to say she enjoyed her time with you but you'll be good for someone else's garden. She dumped, ignored, wouldn't take calls (stonewalling). That's not the woman you are imagining she was or could be, somehow some day.
She is showing you who she Is.
Too busy to show simple courtesy to you for this long, not responding due to all her excuses? Come on! You guys were totally involved and she didnt show you an iota of respect over this breakup. Be mad, it's appropriate. But don't tell a bunch of stories around it. She was disrespectful and that's enough, it doesn't need a lot of padding. Nor does it need an over blown response. Treat it for what it is, unacceptable.
That's my take, but even though it sounds like I'm TeLLING you what to do I'm not, I'm just voicing my perspective.
|
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Nov 7, 2021 17:17:30 GMT
krolle - I’m sorry to hijack, but could you describe the behaviors of the ex, who was controlling and aggressive around the breakup. What exact things did she do?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 18:46:40 GMT
Side note- her showing you "who she is", I mean what she is capable of now, not who she is at her core. Clarifying that this doesn't need to be an indictment of her entire being, but of her ability to be a good partner in any sense.
I'm sorry it's really tough!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 19:00:24 GMT
The last thing I read was four pages ago, so please forgive me if I don’t know who is who. krolle, the boot is on the other foot. It’s not comfortable being triggered anxious by behaviour that we’ve done ourselves as FA people. When this has happened to me, and it has a few times since finding out about this stuff, I’m able to see it for what it is and think about those women I really messed around in ignorance. Maybe payback is a b()ch, and I’ve got to wear it. I’ve cried properly for relationships since I’ve been here. I’ve begged, and I never would have before. It’s a part of the growth process. I’ve had to block women because I know they’ll circle back, which I’ve never done before. For the first time, I know how they will behave very soon after meeting them. It’s incredible. People give themselves away. Thank God for the tough love I got here as well as the empathy. Am I sorry you’re going through this? Right now, the anguish would be unimaginable for most people. The key is to see this how it is in stark daylight and learn something from it. Then it’s not wasted. I'm really happy to hear about your progress!! It really is a process of practical education- you practice what you learn and gain insight along the way. One red flag that comes up in the thread here is intensity. The all nighter of sex and deep sharing. Followed by the fade out and cold stop. Healthier is more even keel, paced. Hot hot hot seems to always be followed by ice cold in situations like this. Warm might feel boring at first (to some... although it's what I've always preferred- I'm put off by intensity). But warm is good, and sustainable. I've found, anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Nov 7, 2021 19:51:38 GMT
The last thing I read was four pages ago, so please forgive me if I don’t know who is who. krolle , the boot is on the other foot. It’s not comfortable being triggered anxious by behaviour that we’ve done ourselves as FA people. When this has happened to me, and it has a few times since finding out about this stuff, I’m able to see it for what it is and think about those women I really messed around in ignorance. Maybe payback is a b()ch, and I’ve got to wear it. I’ve cried properly for relationships since I’ve been here. I’ve begged, and I never would have before. It’s a part of the growth process. I’ve had to block women because I know they’ll circle back, which I’ve never done before. For the first time, I know how they will behave very soon after meeting them. It’s incredible. People give themselves away. Thank God for the tough love I got here as well as the empathy. Am I sorry you’re going through this? Right now, the anguish would be unimaginable for most people. The key is to see this how it is in stark daylight and learn something from it. Then it’s not wasted. I'm really happy to hear about your progress!! It really is a process of practical education- you practice what you learn and gain insight along the way. One red flag that comes up in the thread here is intensity. The all nighter of sex and deep sharing. Followed by the fade out and cold stop. Healthier is more even keel, paced. Hot hot hot seems to always be followed by ice cold in situations like this. Warm might feel boring at first (to some... although it's what I've always preferred- I'm put off by intensity). But warm is good, and sustainable. I've found, anyway. Great point @introvert…warm also allows time for reflection. The fact that I could not be warm with B or him with me should have been a huge flag. I am adding that to my list of pauseworthy items. |
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Nov 8, 2021 5:46:23 GMT
The last thing I read was four pages ago, so please forgive me if I don’t know who is who. krolle, the boot is on the other foot. It’s not comfortable being triggered anxious by behaviour that we’ve done ourselves as FA people. When this has happened to me, and it has a few times since finding out about this stuff, I’m able to see it for what it is and think about those women I really messed around in ignorance. Maybe payback is a b()ch, and I’ve got to wear it. I’ve cried properly for relationships since I’ve been here. I’ve begged, and I never would have before. It’s a part of the growth process. I’ve had to block women because I know they’ll circle back, which I’ve never done before. For the first time, I know how they will behave very soon after meeting them. It’s incredible. People give themselves away. Thank God for the tough love I got here as well as the empathy. Am I sorry you’re going through this? Right now, the anguish would be unimaginable for most people. The key is to see this how it is in stark daylight and learn something from it. Then it’s not wasted. I'm really happy to hear about your progress!! It really is a process of practical education- you practice what you learn and gain insight along the way. One red flag that comes up in the thread here is intensity. The all nighter of sex and deep sharing. Followed by the fade out and cold stop. Healthier is more even keel, paced. Hot hot hot seems to always be followed by ice cold in situations like this. Warm might feel boring at first (to some... although it's what I've always preferred- I'm put off by intensity). But warm is good, and sustainable. I've found, anyway. The intensity is a part of the FA situation, though. It’s text book. This has all been done before, it’s just the details that are different. I think that’s important to remember. krolle, you’re walking a well known path. People here have been where you are before. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 14:22:58 GMT
I'm really happy to hear about your progress!! It really is a process of practical education- you practice what you learn and gain insight along the way. One red flag that comes up in the thread here is intensity. The all nighter of sex and deep sharing. Followed by the fade out and cold stop. Healthier is more even keel, paced. Hot hot hot seems to always be followed by ice cold in situations like this. Warm might feel boring at first (to some... although it's what I've always preferred- I'm put off by intensity). But warm is good, and sustainable. I've found, anyway. The intensity is a part of the FA situation, though. It’s text book. This has all been done before, it’s just the details that are different. I think that’s important to remember. krolle , you’re walking a well known path. People here have been where you are before. Right, it's always comforting and can generate hope to know that others have been and felt just like you and found a way through. I mention the intensity because it's just like intoxication. It might feel pleasant and warm at the time but it's an alteration of reality, and it blinds you to the some things, temporarily. It's destabilizing when you abandon your body's basic needs to feel that rush. I'm familiar with the intoxication of limerence and infatuation and it all is fantasy, one that will be woken from. So going into the relationship I'm in now, I noticed the steady, reasonable progression of it. Sex not to soon before consideration and mutual agreement on what we were looking for.... so it was reasonable without impulsivity and mindlessness, a reasoned choice that came from knowing ourselves, individually, and sharing ourselves. An available and measured level of trust given initially (exhibited by openness with boundaries) and developed more generously over time, backed by actual experience of the other. My time, his time, and our time was easily available, easily negotiated, there was no war about it and it was balanced. Mutually satisfying. So I'm not saying that this relationship has been perfect and a dream within a dream since day one. There's been balance that was lacking in previous experiences, and we each brought the balance by being on an even keel individually. That was a result of our own processes going on before we met, and it was clear when I met him that this man stood on his own two feet, but with arms open. I'm sharing the perspective to contrast it with what we al have experienced in insecure attachment- the mystery, the thrill, the confusion and the feeling that "love" has a life of its own and we are just passengers. That's not really the case... there are a lot of reasoned choices to make from the very beginning. Intensity blurs everything. So I found out that intensity feels bad when I encountered it, because it felt like it took a chunk out of my brain and body, it was something to recover from, it left a hangover. Ruined my ability to be in my own mind. It's disorienting. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Nov 8, 2021 16:10:48 GMT
I'm really happy to hear about your progress!! It really is a process of practical education- you practice what you learn and gain insight along the way. One red flag that comes up in the thread here is intensity. The all nighter of sex and deep sharing. Followed by the fade out and cold stop. Healthier is more even keel, paced. Hot hot hot seems to always be followed by ice cold in situations like this. Warm might feel boring at first (to some... although it's what I've always preferred- I'm put off by intensity). But warm is good, and sustainable. I've found, anyway. The intensity is a part of the FA situation, though. It’s text book. This has all been done before, it’s just the details that are different. I think that’s important to remember. krolle , you’re walking a well known path. People here have been where you are before. I think intensity is also part of the insecurity story…it isn’t just FA.I think some of us through no fault of our own have ended up with neurotransmitter deficiencies and overactive nervous systems that feed into the intensity. I find that I am intense at work, I am intense on the road…..I am fully on or fully off. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Nov 8, 2021 16:30:54 GMT
The intensity is a part of the FA situation, though. It’s text book. This has all been done before, it’s just the details that are different. I think that’s important to remember. krolle , you’re walking a well known path. People here have been where you are before. I think intensity is also part of the insecurity story…it isn’t just FA.I think some of us through no fault of our own have ended up with neurotransmitter deficiencies and overactive nervous systems that feed into the intensity. I find that I am intense at work, I am intense on the road…..I am fully on or fully off. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I cannot do anything without ferocious intensity. Literally incapable of it. All or nothing. Attention, exercise, hobbies, relationships, sex, work. It has to be intense or nothing. There is no room for the middle ground. Like you said it's just the way our nervous systems are primed or something. I either don't exercise and lay in bed too much and eat junk, or I'm meal prepping, down to 7% body fat and working out until I'm crawling out of the gym 5 days a week. If I drink I'm usually trashed daily or I'm tee total for 6 months..... |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Nov 8, 2021 17:26:58 GMT
The intensity is a part of the FA situation, though. It’s text book. This has all been done before, it’s just the details that are different. I think that’s important to remember. krolle , you’re walking a well known path. People here have been where you are before. Right, it's always comforting and can generate hope to know that others have been and felt just like you and found a way through. I mention the intensity because it's just like intoxication. It might feel pleasant and warm at the time but it's an alteration of reality, and it blinds you to the some things, temporarily. It's destabilizing when you abandon your body's basic needs to feel that rush. I'm familiar with the intoxication of limerence and infatuation and it all is fantasy, one that will be woken from. So going into the relationship I'm in now, I noticed the steady, reasonable progression of it. Sex not to soon before consideration and mutual agreement on what we were looking for.... so it was reasonable without impulsivity and mindlessness, a reasoned choice that came from knowing ourselves, individually, and sharing ourselves. An available and measured level of trust given initially (exhibited by openness with boundaries) and developed more generously over time, backed by actual experience of the other. My time, his time, and our time was easily available, easily negotiated, there was no war about it and it was balanced. Mutually satisfying. So I'm not saying that this relationship has been perfect and a dream within a dream since day one. There's been balance that was lacking in previous experiences, and we each brought the balance by being on an even keel individually. That was a result of our own processes going on before we met, and it was clear when I met him that this man stood on his own two feet, but with arms open. I'm sharing the perspective to contrast it with what we al have experienced in insecure attachment- the mystery, the thrill, the confusion and the feeling that "love" has a life of its own and we are just passengers. That's not really the case... there are a lot of reasoned choices to make from the very beginning. Intensity blurs everything. So I found out that intensity feels bad when I encountered it, because it felt like it took a chunk out of my brain and body, it was something to recover from, it left a hangover. Ruined my ability to be in my own mind. It's disorienting. I'm glad you have found this type of "peace" in your relationship @introvert. It sounds very healthy. And yes I agree it does generate hope that others have come through same experiences. But I still worry about being FA because it seems that those of us who have earned secure are few and far between. I'm under the impression FA have the most wounds usually, those on both anxious and avoidant sides. I have most commonly seen FA find stability through tapping out of dating for long periods. Which makes sense, but I feel melancholic about that. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 17:39:06 GMT
krolle , I understand what you're saying, but I encourage you to not give in to pessimism, although I understand why you might. There are FA out there who have made it and you can be one, as well as anyone. Thais Gibson herself has earned secure from FA if I understand correctly. mrob is coming along nicely! And others here on the board. And, how good it is that you are seeking help on the medical side for adhd/chemical imbalance. Continue to give yourself every opportunity you find to support yoir growth. I scoff at the idea that avoidants have lesser chance than others but that's because I know so many that are living life, imperfectly, but making progress. There is no real arrival- it's all a continuing journey. So yes, I have found peace in my relationship. And now I'm turning to other areas of growth, as I continue to grow here. But are many many years behind me that seemed to prove it impossible. I've had my own share of tremendous obstacles. All I'm saying is don't shortchange yourself. I've seen people come out of a variety of seemingly hopeless situations where the odds were supposedly against them. Drug addicts, stage four cancer survivors, people who have lost everything dear to them, etc etc. People born into the worst unfortunate circumstances beyond what most can imagine... your potential is your own to determine, and life really does meet you more than halfway sometimes, if you're open.
|
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Nov 8, 2021 17:58:05 GMT
krolle - I’m sorry to hijack, but could you describe the behaviors of the ex, who was controlling and aggressive around the breakup. What exact things did she do? Just lots of things to satisfy her anxiety that felt suffocating to me. For example: Going through my phone when I was in the shower. Not letting me go on any kind of social event that might have other women there unless she was there. Becoming very hostile if I came home from work later than expected. Waking me up by shouting at me in the middle of the night if she was feeling anxious earlier and had time to ruminate. If she did come to a social event with me and any woman talked to me, she would interpret it as a sexual advance and whisper something like "what did she mean by that?!" She just had really bad anxiety and insecurity about other women because she had been left very traumatically before. And her go to was to try control as much as possible through anger and threat. At the time I could not empathize with her situation because I was constantly triggered and in fight or flight myself, I just felt suffocated and miserable. And I knew nothing of AT. I have noticed that the avoidant side finds it very difficult to have any empathy when triggered. We just want away. And it's very easy to blame in that state too as a method of deflection. In hind sight I caused a lot of her behaviours by acting very shady, secretive and well...avoidant, and we both unknowingly fell into the whirlpool of misery that is the anxious avoidant dance. At the time she literally repulsed me in terms of emotional attraction. But then a while after when I had my space I got a moment where I was like My god, what have I done" and wept freely for the first time in several years. After that I tried to reach out, but she was too angry, and understandably so. I completely broke her heart in the way she feared most. Then from then on I missed her terribly and remember how beautiful and kind she was when not triggered. I actually remember thinking it was ridiculous that she was crying so much when we split up considering how bad it had been for a while. I was utterly unaware and triggered hard into avoidance and denial. And after, when I looked back on things I'm utterly disgusted that I was oblivious to the person I was supposed to love being in a lot of pain. If I could go back to that moment I would hug her and tell her that she is very special to me and I love her very much. But barring a time machine, I have to try and console myself that I just had no idea about anything at the time. In terms of my own attachment related to her over 2 years after the break up, I am now triggered anxious. I blocked her on pretty much everything because I cant stand the thought of seeing her happy with someone else. Even though Part of me wants that for her. Its completely mind boggling that one second you want to never see someone again and then at another time want them back so bad you would risk physical harm to be with them...... |
|
