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Post by krolle on Oct 18, 2021 23:46:50 GMT
Another interesting curve ball has been thrown by the universe. I got a message from a lady I was talking to at a friend's party recently, asking me if I was single and if I woukd like to go on a date. I'm yet to respond. Completely unsure where I stand with lady number 1 still. It was only a few days ago we were in bed together but I'v barely heard from her since. hmmmm... krolle - the lady number one is most likely watching you make a move of some sort to solidify your interest in her. I could be totally off base, but I don't think people (men and women) have lots of regular sex with someone and not develop some kind of feelings and attachment. If anything have the define the relationship talk with the first woman before entertaining the second. I think there is a very fine line of acting selfish vs acting with self love, when one is coming out of an insecure mindset, there will probably be some flip flopping along the way the way you feel and act, but eventually it will be less and less. I love it how we have the first hand experience here making y'all act like men with balls  . Nothing is more attractive than a man of integrity... As much as I want to believe you Anne past experience is telling me other wise. In fact the woman that drove me to look into attachment styles in the first place ended up being very promiscuous without my knowledge. I assumed we were a couple and I would describe the "relationship" as very tender and intimate. At least physically, and in my head emotionally, for about 6 months. And I considered myself monogamous with her. The 1st I knew otherwise was when she suddenly ghosted me after our "best" weekend together, 2ndly from my doctor, who told me that she had given me an STD And then 3rdly mutual friends who found out she had at least 5 other sexual partners whilst we were "dating". To the outside world she came across as sweet, innocent and very much a people pleaser. She hid almost everything about her real self as far as I can tell. Not maliciously, but mostly out of shame. It made me think about how oblivious I was to how much I have been dishonest myself in the past for the same reason. And the search for external validation is a dangerous thing. There are a lot of very similar goings on in my current scenario. And my gut is giving me warning signals that the same thing is repeating. I also could be way off and its just my projection of painful past experiences. but I don't think lady #1 is looking for me to make a move. My instinct is telling me her nervous system is waiting for me to make a mistake that she can latch onto to give her a guilt free "out". I think making a move to solidify my interest in her would only result in a painful rejection whilst she seems to be deactivating. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 3:38:29 GMT
krolle- I want to respond more fully- but was reading your update and something popped out at me. This is gonna seem strange- and maybe I'm wrong. You wrote that she was telling you indirectly about being unsure. That she would write about her feelings and then put a question mark as if she weren't sure. Well, that could be a mis understanding depending on what kind of phone she has, and if she ever uses emoji's. I had a friend who had a different type of phone than mine (i have iphone)- and when she sent a wink emoji (I believe it was), it showed on my phone as a question mark. It was confusing me so I asked her why she put a question mark and she screen shot her emoji. If this is something that you read into because of anxiety and possibly projection (not saying you did- you know more than I) and then the energy changed between you, she may have picked up on and been confused by the new tension. I have no idea but texting can be so dicey and this is a great example why. But anyway- I do want to respond more fully- that just jumped off the screen at me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 3:41:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 3:57:36 GMT
Also- To me she sounds dismissive insecure. At least, similar to me. That bit about withdrawing if she doesn't get a response- the not chasing, that for me has always had to do with a defensive mechanism. The feeling is hard to describe but it's like a forced resignation to let go. I can't read her mind but I'm reading about myself. Also, the need for consistent connection. Here's what I've learned. I dated AP guys who would tread so carefully and not reach out so I wiped them off the map. I thought that I was dating unavailable men and I was- anxious unavailable. They were so anxious they didn't chase I guess. Then when they finally would send a little poke I was like "Nice try, ignore me for this long and now, what, you're bored or that other thing didn't work out?". Its almost hilarious how the two types of insecurity make everything a shit show.
So - if this is what goes on, I guess the difference is while neither party is secure enough to be proactive, one is anxious and one is avoidant. One is obsessing and the other is zoning out or distancing, or just busy! But BOTH AVOID COMMUNICATION that would provide clarity and perhaps the sound of the other shoe dropping(insecure fear).
I am a big fan of being and Ask person and not a Guess person. The mind reading and guessing and filling in the blanks (on lady 1) is old behavior that you might want to think of ditching. I totally get that you don't want to hurt but if it so happens that things are as you think they are, 1) you need to know 2) all isn't lost- you've gone through this with some new awareness and it DOES get better over time 3) the learning curve is steep when we start to recognize patterns (be careful of projecting them though)
Keep us posted!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 4:17:59 GMT
And another "also".... Anxious conjecture is so fictional in so many cases. I mean, I am not discounting that you have had bad things happen. But seriously sometimes my boyfriend would reveal his thought process to me and interpret me (even if I was communicating quite directly!) and his story was WAYYY off base from what I was actually experiencing and living. I'm sure it's gone both ways, in fact I know it has between us. I tend to project indifference/lack of care on to him (habit, projecting my own adaptation on to him) which is ironic because he's anything but indifferent or uncaring. He may be lost in himself at times but he cares for me tremendously. And my own history- I've projected my past on to him He's projected a lot of anger on to me- and other things that stem from his own insecurity/history. The typical insecure stuff. It's shocking when it happens and the light comes on between us, though. We make gains being able to hash it out in the relationship. Sometimes it's a wonder we made it through dating haha. But we did.
The insecure inability to trust and HUGE capacity for projection make anything other than direct communication a really serious problem. And I find that ripping off bandaids is preferable to mental gymnastics. The benefit of having a dismissive physiology around this is the mental processes shut down- and blah blah we know the rest, a DA can go to sleep or jump a track onto a project; work, etc. But I tell you if I were anxious and preoccupied I feel like I would just have to come right out and ask and risk feeling a fool because this kind of mental torture seems just unbearable. I do not in any way mean to trivialize; nor do I mean to sound judgy! It just cannot continue, it's unsustainable to have this kind of fear and uncertainty. I wish I had some good advice that felt helpful and kind, I just think a face to face discussion and even a laugh if it's the emoji thing that happened... somehow settle this in person. It will be a growing experience no matter what.
Take with a grain of salt if this is terrible advice to give someone in anxiety. I have felt it rarely enough and without any clarity that I can't say I know what to do with it. :/
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Post by alexandra on Oct 19, 2021 5:11:42 GMT
@introvert, I don't think it's bad advice. Exercising that muscle of being honest and directly communicating even if you won't like the response is important to do... it'll be painful but you also find out that you survive the worst as long as you don't abandon yourself. I had to force myself to start and continue doing it after years of AP / anxious-avoidant trap misery because I couldn't see how the worst case scenario (potentially separating sooner) could ever be anything other than the worst... how could I survive that emotional pain, let's cling to the crumbs of connection instead. But even if it's painful, it's not the worst, since it forces you out of staying indefinitely stuck. Not something I reaaaally understood until I was much later in the process and in the practice of trying it that way. And now I'm like, why did I ever do all that tiptoeing around eggshells to myself... I was putting my own life on hard mode! Causing myself so much stress. Of course, it's a rhetorical question, understanding AP I sure know why. And krolle, there's no shame in any of it. It is probably worth trying something different than what hasn't worked before and exploring how it goes and how you feel about it, though. Because, believe it or not now but... you'll actually eventually be okay no matter how things go. |
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Post by anne12 on Oct 19, 2021 8:16:05 GMT
Different tips on how to get back into your own power After one week without hearing from the other person: If the other person just ignores you, you can text: "Hey. Since I haven't heard from you since the xxx, I take it as an expression, that our relationship is over. Best Regards xxx (if it's a misunderstanding, feel free to bring me out of it)' Then you get your energy and power back. Use statesments and not questions. You can Call her and invite her out again: You do not have to ask, but suggest things short and concretely: for example: "It's gonna be super awesome if we can go out and eat on Saturday at restaurant xx!" That way, you will retain your power and will not feel rejected, even if the other says no. Women testing men jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1052/story-dating-lifeIf she is desorganised her nerveussystem could have got triggered after having sex and spending a weekend together. It is recommended that you are not being pushy with someone who is desorganised. They like to be in control. (Be calm, firm, but dont be a doormat) Some people with desorganised attatchment style can feel less triggered by a dismissive than an ambivalent attatched person. if one person peaks in interest too quickly and the other can not keep up, then the lovecrush can not unfold |
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Post by anne12 on Oct 19, 2021 8:40:27 GMT
@introvert
“ But seriously sometimes my boyfriend would reveal his thought process to me and interpret me (even if I was communicating quite directly!) and his story was WAYYY off base from what I was actually experiencing and living” - this could also be a ADHD thing..
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Post by annieb on Oct 19, 2021 12:38:18 GMT
krolle - it really does sound you’re letting the past influence the present, that’s why I thought dating wasn’t a good idea at this time. You’re projecting so much on this person, all informed by the person from the past and it’s not fair to her or to you. That’s why always say as an insecure, you’re first and foremost not ethical to you. Forget about the other person. You’re gaslighting yourself. That’s the big issue. I don’t know what else to suggest than to table dating altogether. That’s the only thing that’s allowed me to get some kind of a handle over my own life even though I’m perpetually lonely, at least I’m not gaslighting myself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 13:11:18 GMT
@introvert “ But seriously sometimes my boyfriend would reveal his thought process to me and interpret me (even if I was communicating quite directly!) and his story was WAYYY off base from what I was actually experiencing and living” - this could also be a ADHD thing.. Absolutely- it happens with both insecure and adhd. I figure it's attachment when it's based on insecurity but it could also be RSD. I also see it a lot on the boards. In any case, it is anxiety driven and fear based. What a complicated lot we all are though! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 13:12:55 GMT
Different tips on how to get back into your own power After one week without hearing from the other person: If the other person just ignores you, you can text: "Hey. Since I haven't heard from you since the xxx, I take it as an expression, that our relationship is over. Best Regards xxx (if it's a misunderstanding, feel free to bring me out of it)' Then you get your energy and power back. Use statesments and not questions. You can Call her and invite her out again: You do not have to ask, but suggest things short and concretely: for example: "It's gonna be super awesome if we can go out and eat on Saturday at restaurant xx!" That way, you will retain your power and will not feel rejected, even if the other says no. Women testing men jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1052/story-dating-lifeIf she is desorganised her nerveussystem could have got triggered after having sex and spending a weekend together. It is recommended that you are not being pushy with someone who is desorganised. They like to be in control. (Be calm, firm, but dont be a doormat) Some people with desorganised attatchment style can feel less triggered by a dismissive than an ambivalent attatched person. if one person peaks in interest too quickly and the other can not keep up, then the lovecrush can not unfold I think taking power and energy back is critical to not developing or maintaining that underdog/overdog dynamic that is so toxic. Don't be on your back with it, get on your feet. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 13:18:11 GMT
krolle - it really does sound you’re letting the past influence the present, that’s why I thought dating wasn’t a good idea at this time. You’re projecting so much on this person, all informed by the person from the past and it’s not fair to her or to you. That’s why always say as an insecure, you’re first and foremost not ethical to you. Forget about the other person. You’re gaslighting yourself. That’s the big issue. I don’t know what else to suggest than to table dating altogether. That’s the only thing that’s allowed me to get some kind of a handle over my own life even though I’m perpetually lonely, at least I’m not gaslighting myself. I see your point, but I also think there is a lot of value in walking it out. For me, I haven't really been able to get this stuff until I experienced it without the blinders completely on- I could get glimpses of my self and my responses and then become more aware. Going through it with support and curiosity and openness to see where growth is needed is really how I learn. |
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Post by annieb on Oct 19, 2021 13:49:26 GMT
Introvert - absolutely I agree. In fact we learned about our attachment style through a relationship and became aware of our issues in the first place because we were observing our relationships. I think in context of krolle, he’s only started his therapy a couple weeks ago and he literally just turned a corner in self care, so his journey has just begun.
I feel personally I would have not been able to work through my issues and remained in a relationship, not at least in the relationships I found myself when I first started working on myself. In my case, the relationship was the first thing that had to go.
It could be different for everyone, there is always a unique individual behind the attachment style, of course.
If krolle can step out of his RSD while in a relationship while healing and working on himself, I certainly want to see how it works out and learn from that experience as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 13:53:39 GMT
I agree, but what I'm saying is, don't just bail, take the next healthiest steps you can and see how it unfolds. Rather than throw in the towel on this, I think follow through is a good option, let it unfold naturally either way as steps are taken to increase communication and awareness. You never know! And, authenticity is always a good thing. So even a budding insecure attempt at relationship has a chance, and certainly deserves being genuine and flexible and true. We are all pulling for you and your best future dear krolle. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 15:09:38 GMT
Also, can someone help me understand the difference between RSD and anxious preoccupied activation? Either way, in my relationship I have learned to deal with it with more compassion and kind boundaries. Both come from a place of pain. I just don't understand the difference unless it's to degree?
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. Nothing is more attractive than a man of integrity...
