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Post by annieb on Oct 19, 2021 16:06:15 GMT
Also, can someone help me understand the difference between RSD and anxious preoccupied activation? Either way, in my relationship I have learned to deal with it with more compassion and kind boundaries. Both come from a place of pain. I just don't understand the difference unless it's to degree? I would think that AP would react differently to rejection (perceived or real) and have a stronger case of RSD than an FA would FA would start disassociating as a defense. And maybe DA would be disassociated to begin with. Hard to say. There is a lot of overlap between all these things. For me I only use the terms when they are perhaps helpful. It’s all an attachment disorder to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 16:12:40 GMT
Also, can someone help me understand the difference between RSD and anxious preoccupied activation? Either way, in my relationship I have learned to deal with it with more compassion and kind boundaries. Both come from a place of pain. I just don't understand the difference unless it's to degree? I would think that AP would react differently to rejection (perceived or real) and have a stronger case of RSD than an FA would FA would start disassociating as a defense. And maybe DA would be disassociated to begin with. Hard to say. There is a lot of overlap between all these things. For me I only use the terms when they are perhaps helpful. It’s all an attachment disorder to me. I agree, that it's all nervous system/survival stuff. I see so many similarities between the AP train and RSD, they could be interchangeable almost. I think @shiningstar wrote about RSD, having come to the boards as AP, I should try to find that thread. She reminds me a bit of my boyfriend, with the two things going on. I get pretty confused when I try to parse it out, my main focus is how I can be most healthy/supportive to myself and the other when I find myself in that territory. |
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Post by annieb on Oct 19, 2021 16:21:50 GMT
Also personally I knew I disassociated in different situations in life in general until I had a therapy session while I was in that disassociated state and that brought completely new awareness to the issue. I think as we learn and grow, we change. And we are bound to. It’s almost like there really is no other way. And there is a fluid movement to it all. An ebb and flow 😅
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 17:21:33 GMT
Also personally I knew I disassociated in different situations in life in general until I had a therapy session while I was in that disassociated state and that brought completely new awareness to the issue. I think as we learn and grow, we change. And we are bound to. It’s almost like there really is no other way. And there is a fluid movement to it all. An ebb and flow 😅 Agreed! Sincere discovery seems to have momentum of its own. I've found over and over again, once undertaken it leads the right way, it's just a matter of sticking with it and continuing to be open to pursue wholeness. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 0:02:50 GMT
Also, can someone help me understand the difference between RSD and anxious preoccupied activation? Either way, in my relationship I have learned to deal with it with more compassion and kind boundaries. Both come from a place of pain. I just don't understand the difference unless it's to degree? I'll take a stab. AP activation is when your insecurities are triggered and your attachment system is on alert, such that you become anxious preoccupied. RSD refers specifically to the exaggerated reactions to perceived rejection or criticism, even if it is not true. RSD arose out of ADHD circles, while AP activation arose out of attachment styles circles. So for example, if someone i thought was a friend made fun of me, RSD would be me feeling physically sick and feeling completely stupid that I ever thought someone could want to be friends with me. Other people may just have some hurt feelings and think that this person is a jerk. AP activation would be getting very anxious about the security of this relationship, and if this person was rejecting them, and seeking validation and commitment repeatedly. RSD can happen when one gets AP activated, because RSD describes the scale of reaction to perceived rejection. AP activation refers to the activation of one's attachment style to perceived rejection/instability. So for sure, they are highly linked, because the common denominator across both RSD and AP is perceived rejection/abandonment/insecure relationships. The two terms, however, specify different constructs (ideas) and arose out of different scientific circles. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 2:38:06 GMT
Also, can someone help me understand the difference between RSD and anxious preoccupied activation? Either way, in my relationship I have learned to deal with it with more compassion and kind boundaries. Both come from a place of pain. I just don't understand the difference unless it's to degree? I'll take a stab. AP activation is when your insecurities are triggered and your attachment system is on alert, such that you become anxious preoccupied. RSD refers specifically to the exaggerated reactions to perceived rejection or criticism, even if it is not true. RSD arose out of ADHD circles, while AP activation arose out of attachment styles circles. So for example, if someone i thought was a friend made fun of me, RSD would be me feeling physically sick and feeling completely stupid that I ever thought someone could want to be friends with me. Other people may just have some hurt feelings and think that this person is a jerk. AP activation would be getting very anxious about the security of this relationship, and if this person was rejecting them, and seeking validation and commitment repeatedly. RSD can happen when one gets AP activated, because RSD describes the scale of reaction to perceived rejection. AP activation refers to the activation of one's attachment style to perceived rejection/instability. So for sure, they are highly linked, because the common denominator across both RSD and AP is perceived rejection/abandonment/insecure relationships. The two terms, however, specify different constructs (ideas) and arose out of different scientific circles. Very helpful, thank you. Would you say that AP activation involves seeking external regulation in the form of reassurance, whereas RSD does not? It seems almost that RSD might result in isolation or fight, more than connect. Perhaps it isn't that simple though, and the two are similar enough and may be intertwined. They certainly arose out of the same physiology, in terms of one nervous system. one body- so the distinction may not be too important.... except that my understanding is is that RSD might be more resistant to therapeutic intervention, while AP activation may be improved by increasing attachment security (becoming more secure). Pondering out loud. It's nuanced. Your description is helpful. Thank you for sharing. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 20, 2021 2:57:45 GMT
@introvert , anxious activation gets better with overcoming fear of abandonment. So even if someone isn't secure, the overwhelming need to reconnect to relieve feeling like you'll otherwise die would probably stop.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 3:06:11 GMT
@introvert , anxious activation gets better with overcoming fear of abandonment. So even if someone isn't secure, the overwhelming need to reconnect to relieve feeling like you'll otherwise die would probably stop. Oh! Ok I thought the fear of abandonment is just part and parcel of AP attachment insecurity, I would think the way to improve it is to increase security in oneself. It gets pretty confusing. Don't AP also act in other ways, such as holding back and obsessing as in the cases of people who fear impending abandonment, feel sick and anxious, but don't try to reconnect- they just obsessively wait for the other party to reconnect? It seems like there are two side to the AP coin. The need t reconnect is there but action toward it may or may not be. I guess you are referring to the NEED to reconnect not necessarily the action taken to do so. Sorry if I seem obtuse. I have mentioned, I felt anxious when early in the relationship my boyfriend "broke up" with me which seemed then to be a reactionary tactic - we discussed that in the initial thread. It was a panic. But those episodes are short lived and few, and I've never been in it long enough to try to figure it out or resolve it. So thanks for the education. I see both my boyfriend and I developing attachment security and also I see a big improvement in coping with our different issues (adhd and HSP). So it all is related in practice. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 20, 2021 5:23:59 GMT
@introvert, it is part of AP, but there's also an anxious side to FA which comes from the exact same place. And both those places that trigger those episodes are a conscious fear of abandonment flooding the nervous system. So yes, earning security will help, but if an FA overcomes the fear of abandonment they may not be secure yet because there's the avoidant side too. I'm also not sure if overcoming the fear automatically comes with trusting self more, though it worked together for me. And for an AP to get more secure primarily means trusting self more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 12:45:00 GMT
Thank you ladies- and I also read @shiningstar's recent post about Adhd/attachment insecurity being linked and I agree with her perspective. I don't know how different the two may feel to the one suffering, but clear distress is all that's needed to know that an understanding and empathetic response is most helpful. krolle, wondering how you are doing. |
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Post by annieb on Oct 20, 2021 13:41:31 GMT
DAs have fear of abandonment also, it’s just subconscious. Or they’ve disassociated. All insecures have fear of abandonment.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 13:46:09 GMT
DAs have fear of abandonment also, it’s just subconscious. Or they’ve disassociated. All insecures have fear of abandonment. Absolutely, it takes a long time to get through layers to bring it to consciousness. I am simply noting the similarities of RSD/AP activation. I'm sure there are avoidants with adhd who would present with withdrawal, too. Actually, it doesn't just take time to reveal the underlying fear of abandonment, actual abandonment can do it as I described earlier in the thread. |
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Post by krolle on Oct 20, 2021 14:02:47 GMT
Thank you ladies- and I also read @shiningstar's recent post about Adhd/attachment insecurity being linked and I agree with her perspective. I don't know how different the two may feel to the one suffering, but clear distress is all that's needed to know that an understanding and empathetic response is most helpful. krolle, wondering how you are doing. I have been keeping an eye on the thread. Just haven't had time to post due to a hectic work schedule the last day or 2 and lots of stress.There are several posts I would like to respond to when I get more time. Thankyou for your concern @introvert I'm not sure how I'm doing. one second I feel sort of ok, the next I feel quiet panicked and or depressed. My guess is that's a vacillation between anxiety and avoidance because of a confused nervous system. For humans in general, but especially FA's we have a strong need for transparency so we can gauge the other person and appraise the situation to feel safe. I understand it's related to our adaptive defence that we need to attune our behaviour to our caregiver as a child (and now to our lover) because their own behaviour was so unpredictable our only defence was to be hypervigilant to their needs and respond thusly. Because I have no idea where I stand with lady#1 my nervous system doesn't know what to do, and so it's wildly oscillating between uncomfortable states to try calibrate in futility to the situation. I keep telling myself that's what's happening so have been able to avoid my usual most self destructive behaviours like drinking. But it's been difficult to concentrate at work for example. I have maintained my exercise routine and kept myself busy at night with hobbies. I have been sleeping...ok, not great, but better than previous times I have felt this anxious. Today I am scheduled to meet both lady #1 and #2. But before anyone gives me a hard time about that I have been clear to lady #2 that I'm in an uncertain dating situation so not available romantically, but we enjoy the same hobbies so are going to do that together today. I offered her a friendship, which she seemed happy with. whether it's just an attempt to get closer to me for other reasons I cannot say. I have been honest with her, if she has other motives, that's her responsibility. I'm supposed to have lunch with lady #1. God knows what will happen with that, or if she'll even show up. And If she does, I'm frightened my courage will fail me and I'll fawn. I'm on therapy session #3 at present. mixed opinions as to be expected. I will update you on this cluster F*ck of a situation as I am able to. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 14:31:49 GMT
krolle, it's a hard place to be but it seems that overall you are coping in a healthy way! You're getting the support of a therapist, maintaining self care, and paying attention to what is going on inside of you. Those are all great indicators of growing self love and self care. I'm really happy to see that! And, the presence of confusion is to be expected, I don't fault you one bit- nor do I fault you for the decisions you're making as you attempt to gain clarity. Let us know how it all goes- and don't be hard on yourself.There is a ton of progress written all over this. 
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Post by annieb on Oct 20, 2021 14:51:02 GMT
krolle - it all sounds like great progress. Happy to hear you’re doing self care and self love things and very happy you’re continuing with therapy. If I have any advice that is if you feel a familial pull to stop the therapy for whatever reason (a very convenient excuse may come up), know that it is the time to commit to it fully and that something important is about to happen in therapy.
I’m very familiar with the vacillating between avoidance and anxiousness. When I was dating in the spring I was in that space on rapid cycling basis and it was very new, I always used to stay in one mindset for longer. So I think that’s definitely progress although it may feel like being out of control.
When you meet the lady #1 today, perhaps start with how you feel and let her respond instead of fawning. See if you can get some of your feelings out in the open. Don’t waste this time fawning 😅.
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