bluex
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Posts: 31
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Post by bluex on Feb 6, 2023 15:20:26 GMT
Hi all, I am mostly secure and currently in an ambiguous friendship/relationship with an FA who broke up with me abruptly 2 months ago. We are currently still in contact and hanging out, but with some withdrawals and even shutdowns by her. Below are some notes I made to remind myself on how to navigate this based on what I have read. Please add your collective wisdom and let us help and support one another through this difficult time.
- Don't take it personally. You are not responsible for their issues, feelings and actions.
- You can't do anything about their feelings and actions but you can control and are responsible for your own.
- Keep your emotions in check and keep moral high ground.
- Do not play the victim. They are not forcing you to stay. You are fully responsible for how much to invest and how long to keep going.
- Respect and match their engagement and space requirements.
- Keep your serious communication short, clear, positive, polite and matter of fact, free from emotions and criticisms/accusations.
- Recognise they have confused and disorganised feelings, and low capacity for managing their emotions.
- Therefore look at them with compassion, kindness and empathy, while having realistic ambivalence that there's a high chance they will never be compatible with you.
- Accept them for who they are and do not try to change them or expect them to change. You can only model secure behaviour for them. It is for them to discover on their own and start healing themselves in their own time. It is up to you whether to walk away or stay.
“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
“How people treat you is their Karma, how you react is yours.”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 15:38:21 GMT
Hi all, I am mostly secure and currently in an ambiguous friendship/relationship with an FA who broke up with me abruptly 2 months ago. We are currently still in contact and hanging out, but with some withdrawals and even shutdowns by her. Below are some notes I made to remind myself on how to navigate this based on what I have read. Please add your collective wisdom and let us help and support one another through this difficult time. - Don't take it personally. You are not responsible for their issues, feelings and actions. - You can't do anything about their feelings and actions but you can control and are responsible for your own. - Keep your emotions in check and keep moral high ground. - Do not play the victim. They are not forcing you to stay. You are fully responsible for how much to invest and how long to keep going. - Respect and match their engagement and space requirements. - Keep your serious communication short, clear, positive, polite and matter of fact, free from emotions and accusations. - Recognise they have confused and disorganised feelings, and low capacity for managing their emotions. - Therefore look at them with compassion, kindness and empathy, while having realistic ambivalence that there's a high chance they will never be compatible with you. - Accept them for who they are and do not try to change them or expect them to change. You can only model secure behaviour for them. It is for them to discover on their own. It is up to you whether to walk away or stay. “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” “How people treat you is their Karma, how you react is yours.” That's a relationship? Sounds like a clinicians guidelines for dealing with a counseling client. Not bad points, and certainly a nice way to exit the entanglement with a clear view on attachment insecurity. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2023 15:41:15 GMT
Hi all, I am mostly secure and currently in an ambiguous friendship/relationship with an FA who broke up with me abruptly 2 months ago. We are currently still in contact and hanging out, but with some withdrawals and even shutdowns by her. Below are some notes I made to remind myself on how to navigate this based on what I have read. Please add your collective wisdom and let us help and support one another through this difficult time. - Don't take it personally. You are not responsible for their issues, feelings and actions. - You can't do anything about their feelings and actions but you can control and are responsible for your own. - Keep your emotions in check and keep moral high ground. - Do not play the victim. They are not forcing you to stay. You are fully responsible for how much to invest and how long to keep going. - Respect and match their engagement and space requirements. - Keep your serious communication short, clear, positive, polite and matter of fact, free from emotions and accusations. - Recognise they have confused and disorganised feelings, and low capacity for managing their emotions. - Therefore look at them with compassion, kindness and empathy, while having realistic ambivalence that there's a high chance they will never be compatible with you. - Accept them for who they are and do not try to change them or expect them to change. You can only model secure behaviour for them. It is for them to discover on their own. It is up to you whether to walk away or stay. “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” “How people treat you is their Karma, how you react is yours.” This is a good list to address a relationship with an unaware FA…but one thing I would add is that someone with an FA attachment is more then their attachment issues. A person is not FA, AP or DA but an individual with insecure attachment wounding, usually from his or her childhood who has developed coping mechanisms to address an over/under active nervous system. Having an unaware insecure attachment is not the same as someone who has bipolar or other medical conditions. Someone with FA attachment usually has a “preference” and will either tend to pair with someone more anxious or more avoidant. There are several individuals in these boards..myself included who are actively working on our FA attachment issues…however, we individually made the choice to move towards healing our wounds. The best thing to do is to focus on yourself…if you find that you were seeing someone with an FA attachment wound who was not seeking any help…the best path forward is to do some self reflection….is there any insecurity within your own attachments that needs to be addressed? |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2023 15:49:19 GMT
Hi all, I am mostly secure and currently in an ambiguous friendship/relationship with an FA who broke up with me abruptly 2 months ago. We are currently still in contact and hanging out, but with some withdrawals and even shutdowns by her. Below are some notes I made to remind myself on how to navigate this based on what I have read. Please add your collective wisdom and let us help and support one another through this difficult time. - Don't take it personally. You are not responsible for their issues, feelings and actions. - You can't do anything about their feelings and actions but you can control and are responsible for your own. - Keep your emotions in check and keep moral high ground. - Do not play the victim. They are not forcing you to stay. You are fully responsible for how much to invest and how long to keep going. - Respect and match their engagement and space requirements. - Keep your serious communication short, clear, positive, polite and matter of fact, free from emotions and accusations. - Recognise they have confused and disorganised feelings, and low capacity for managing their emotions. - Therefore look at them with compassion, kindness and empathy, while having realistic ambivalence that there's a high chance they will never be compatible with you. - Accept them for who they are and do not try to change them or expect them to change. You can only model secure behaviour for them. It is for them to discover on their own. It is up to you whether to walk away or stay. “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” “How people treat you is their Karma, how you react is yours.” That's a relationship? Sounds like a clinicians guidelines for dealing with a counseling client. Not bad points, and certainly a nice way to exit the entanglement with a clear view on attachment insecurity. I do agree….you will not find attachment wounding in any clinical textbook….because it isn’t a medical condition…it is a bunch of coping strategies learned from a very young age. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 15:54:05 GMT
Yes, my point being that if this is your thought process around a "relationship" its not a mutual relationship, it's more a clinician/client dynamic and time to hang it up.
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bluex
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Post by bluex on Feb 6, 2023 16:22:10 GMT
I have some part anxious and a little bit avoidant, but mostly i.e. more than half secure. I was a little surprised myself considering I was probably mostly AP many years ago. But in this relationship for the past half year, I have not really taken anything personally or fought with her or pressured or chased or begged or protested. I did unintentionally say something silly one time and I apologised for it sincerely. The only time I expressed my disappointment was in a text message, when the first truly red flag showed up when she sarcastically made a number of baseless accusations about me all of a sudden. Even then I have never made it about who is right or wrong, especially after I realised it's only going to trigger her insecurities and backfire. I have never gotten angry at her or been mean to her. I have tried to gently communicate to her my preference on how often we spend time together and I am not giving up yet. My attachment issue is that I'm not easily attracted to someone, but when I connected with her, I was surprised that I could behave genuinely in a secure manner sustainably and still going, when the very young me would have been flipping out and panicking at her every rejection or testing behaviour. Hi all, I am mostly secure and currently in an ambiguous friendship/relationship with an FA who broke up with me abruptly 2 months ago. We are currently still in contact and hanging out, but with some withdrawals and even shutdowns by her. Below are some notes I made to remind myself on how to navigate this based on what I have read. Please add your collective wisdom and let us help and support one another through this difficult time. - Don't take it personally. You are not responsible for their issues, feelings and actions. - You can't do anything about their feelings and actions but you can control and are responsible for your own. - Keep your emotions in check and keep moral high ground. - Do not play the victim. They are not forcing you to stay. You are fully responsible for how much to invest and how long to keep going. - Respect and match their engagement and space requirements. - Keep your serious communication short, clear, positive, polite and matter of fact, free from emotions and accusations. - Recognise they have confused and disorganised feelings, and low capacity for managing their emotions. - Therefore look at them with compassion, kindness and empathy, while having realistic ambivalence that there's a high chance they will never be compatible with you. - Accept them for who they are and do not try to change them or expect them to change. You can only model secure behaviour for them. It is for them to discover on their own. It is up to you whether to walk away or stay. “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” “How people treat you is their Karma, how you react is yours.” This is a good list to address a relationship with an unaware FA…but one thing I would add is that someone with an FA attachment is more then their attachment issues. A person is not FA, AP or DA but an individual with insecure attachment wounding, usually from his or her childhood who has developed coping mechanisms to address an over/under active nervous system. Having an unaware insecure attachment is not the same as someone who has bipolar or other medical conditions. Someone with FA attachment usually has a “preference” and will either tend to pair with someone more anxious or more avoidant. There are several individuals in these boards..myself included who are actively working on our FA attachment issues…however, we individually made the choice to move towards healing our wounds. The best thing to do is to focus on yourself…if you find that you were seeing someone with an FA attachment wound who was not seeking any help…the best path forward is to do some self reflection….is there any insecurity within your own attachments that needs to be addressed? |
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bluex
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by bluex on Feb 6, 2023 16:28:50 GMT
Actually these points on how to navigate a relationship with an FA are commonly found from many of the well regarded relationship experts, many of them past FAs and DAs themselves who later became therapists or counsellors. I think they make a lot of sense. I hope this forum isn't one where people just tell others to hang it up just because the points are calm and collected, and not easy to practise and about secure behaviour. Yes, my point being that if this is your thought process around a "relationship" its not a mutual relationship, it's more a clinician/client dynamic and time to hang it up. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2023 16:35:56 GMT
I have some part anxious and a little bit avoidant, but mostly i.e. more than half secure. I was a little surprised myself considering I was probably mostly AP many years ago. But in this relationship for the past half year, I have not really taken anything personally or fought with her or pressured or chased or begged or protested. I did unintentionally say something silly one time and I apologised for it sincerely. The only time I expressed my disappointment was in a text message, when the first truly red flag showed up when she sarcastically made a number of baseless accusations about me all of a sudden. Even then I have never made it about who is right or wrong, especially after I realised it's only going to trigger her insecurities and backfire. I have never gotten angry at her or been mean to her. I have tried to gently communicate to her my preference on how often we spend time together and I am not giving up yet. My attachment issue is that I'm not easily attracted to someone, but when I connected with her, I was surprised that I could behave genuinely in a secure manner sustainably and still going, when the very young me would have been flipping out and panicking at her every rejection or testing behaviour. This is a good list to address a relationship with an unaware FA…but one thing I would add is that someone with an FA attachment is more then their attachment issues. A person is not FA, AP or DA but an individual with insecure attachment wounding, usually from his or her childhood who has developed coping mechanisms to address an over/under active nervous system. Having an unaware insecure attachment is not the same as someone who has bipolar or other medical conditions. Someone with FA attachment usually has a “preference” and will either tend to pair with someone more anxious or more avoidant. There are several individuals in these boards..myself included who are actively working on our FA attachment issues…however, we individually made the choice to move towards healing our wounds. The best thing to do is to focus on yourself…if you find that you were seeing someone with an FA attachment wound who was not seeking any help…the best path forward is to do some self reflection….is there any insecurity within your own attachments that needs to be addressed? In my last relationship…I tested 50% secure and 50% AP, however I was not secure at all…the relationship just did not trigger me in the way others did. If there is a list of dos and don’t that comes across like a textbook…then I wonder how secure that really is…..someone who is experiencing FA wounding is not seeking “pity”….in fact, if I felt “pity” from someone…..I would put a huge amount of distance between myself and that person. If the basis of a secure relationship is one where both people are open, authentic and good with communication….does this relationship really pass that test? Not having any arguments or getting mad with an insecure partner can sometimes be a red flag that you or she or both or you are avoiding conflict. Conflict for an unaware person with FA attachment wounding can drive that person away. Are you sure you are not simply pretzeling yourself to meet what you perceive as her needs? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 16:41:09 GMT
Actually these points on how to navigate a relationship with an FA are commonly found from many of the well regarded relationship experts, many of them past FAs and DAs themselves who later became therapists or counsellors. I think they make a lot of sense. I hope this forum isn't one where people just tell others to hang it up just because the points are calm and collected, and not easy to practise and about secure behaviour. Yes, my point being that if this is your thought process around a "relationship" its not a mutual relationship, it's more a clinician/client dynamic and time to hang it up. Hey if it works for you, go for it. This forum is a forum where people respond with their perspective, and may not meet your expectations. Good luck! |
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bluex
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Posts: 31
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Post by bluex on Feb 6, 2023 16:48:37 GMT
There's a difference between having empathy, compassion and kindness vs taking pity on a person. And calm collected thoughts and approaches to secure behaviour do seem to read like textbook because that's how the attachment experts have phrased them. Secure persons wouldn't easily take things personally or get mad, or frivolously bring up conflict knowing it will backfire on DAs and FAs, especially when there isn't any really unacceptable behaviour such as abuse. Secure persons simply state their point of view where they disagree if it's important and what they would like, if it's important. Insecure persons on the other hand do get mad easily. In my last relationship…I tested 50% secure and 50% AP, however I was not secure at all…the relationship just did not trigger me in the way others did. If there is a list of dos and don’t that comes across like a textbook…then I wonder how secure that really is…..someone who is experiencing FA wounding is not seeking “pity”….in fact, if I felt “pity” from someone…..I would put a huge amount of distance between myself and that person. If the basis of a secure relationship is one where both people are open, authentic and good with communication….does this relationship really pass that test? Not having any arguments or getting mad with an insecure partner can sometimes be a red flag that you or she or both or you are avoiding conflict. Conflict for an unaware person with FA attachment wounding can drive that person away. Are you sure you are not simply pretzeling yourself to meet what you perceive as her needs? |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2023 16:55:02 GMT
There's a difference between having empathy and compassion and kindness vs taking pity on a person. And calm collected thoughts and approaches to secure behaviour do seem to read like textbook because that's how the attachment experts have phrases them. Secure persons wouldn't easily take things personally or get mad, or frivolously bring up conflict knowing it will backfire on DAs and FAs, especially when there isn't any really unacceptable behaviour such as abuse. Insecure persons on the other hand do get mad easily. In my last relationship…I tested 50% secure and 50% AP, however I was not secure at all…the relationship just did not trigger me in the way others did. If there is a list of dos and don’t that comes across like a textbook…then I wonder how secure that really is…..someone who is experiencing FA wounding is not seeking “pity”….in fact, if I felt “pity” from someone…..I would put a huge amount of distance between myself and that person. If the basis of a secure relationship is one where both people are open, authentic and good with communication….does this relationship really pass that test? Not having any arguments or getting mad with an insecure partner can sometimes be a red flag that you or she or both or you are avoiding conflict. Conflict for an unaware person with FA attachment wounding can drive that person away. Are you sure you are not simply pretzeling yourself to meet what you perceive as her needs? So you are ok with things being undefined for an undetermined amount of time versus trying to find someone who is secure? It just seems to me that once she broke up with you…especially if she isn’t doing any work on her end…you would keep her in your life as a platonic friend perhaps…but recognize that the match is not compatible. Is she seeking any therapy? |
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bluex
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Post by bluex on Feb 6, 2023 17:05:31 GMT
Unfortunately the reality with FAs and DAs seems to be that they are resistant to the idea of therapy and even more resistant if you even try to bring up the topic of attachment wounds. Most advice on attachment theory seems to suggest the only chance is just being a secure person for them to see if they will discover within themselves the need to change, but of course put a time limit on this, since the second unfortunate reality seems to be that most FAs and DAs will never change. So you are ok with things being undefined for an undetermined amount of time versus trying to find someone who is secure? It just seems to me that once she broke up with you…especially if she isn’t doing any work on her end…you would keep her in your life as a platonic friend perhaps…but recognize that the match is not compatible. Is she seeking any therapy? |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2023 18:29:30 GMT
Unfortunately the reality with FAs and DAs seems to be that they are resistant to the idea of therapy and even more resistant if you even try to bring up the topic of attachment wounds. Most advice on attachment theory seems to suggest the only chance is just being a secure person for them to see if they will discover within themselves the need to change, but of course put a time limit on this, since the second unfortunate reality seems to be that most FAs and DAs will never change. So you are ok with things being undefined for an undetermined amount of time versus trying to find someone who is secure? It just seems to me that once she broke up with you…especially if she isn’t doing any work on her end…you would keep her in your life as a platonic friend perhaps…but recognize that the match is not compatible. Is she seeking any therapy? That still does not explain what you get out of it….especially if she never changes and the dynamic the 2 of you are in doesn’t change. Right now it is comfortable for her….you are allowing an open ended situationship…a friendly hang out that has no defined next steps. |
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bluex
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Post by bluex on Feb 6, 2023 18:56:56 GMT
That's why there's a time limit. It varies for everyone and I know mine. While the chance of an FA changing is low, it is virtually zero if people are trying to pressure their FA or talking to their FA to define the steps and their feelings and the relationship. The FA already knows the person is interested in rekindling the relationship and doesn't need reminding or pressure. The FA doesn't work on a timeline nor responds to insecure and impatient pressure or questions about this. Secure persons focus on themselves and what they themselves can do and accept. Secure persons don't try to change others. One can only be secure and make the FA feel safe and hope that they want to start taking steps before the time limit is up, even if the chance is not high. That still does not explain what you get out of it….especially if she never changes and the dynamic the 2 of you are in doesn’t change. Right now it is comfortable for her….you are allowing an open ended situationship…a friendly hang out that has no defined next steps. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2023 19:26:26 GMT
That's why there's a time limit. It varies for everyone and I know mine. While the chance of an FA changing is low, it is virtually zero if people are trying to pressure their FA or talking to their FA to define the steps and their feelings and the relationship. The FA already knows the person is interested in rekindling the relationship and doesn't need reminding or pressure. The FA doesn't work on a timeline nor responds to insecure and impatient pressure or questions about this. Secure persons focus on themselves and what they themselves can do and accept. Secure persons don't try to change others. One can only be secure and make the FA feel safe and hope that they want to start taking steps before the time limit is up, even if the chance is not high. That still does not explain what you get out of it….especially if she never changes and the dynamic the 2 of you are in doesn’t change. Right now it is comfortable for her….you are allowing an open ended situationship…a friendly hang out that has no defined next steps. The only issue with this approach is that there are a lot of posts where people have not done any pressuring and the line never changes. It is good that you know your time limit. It feels a bit weird to me that you are referring to her still in clinical terms…maybe this comes from a book…..but it is still weird. |
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