|
|
Post by tnr9 on Mar 15, 2023 23:16:06 GMT
Thanks, @tnr -- I think it's all part of overfunctioning, which I've posted about before. I'm not sure if I can trace it back to family - I'm sure though - but seems to be also something about rejection. Like I don't want people to resent me or feel that I'm a burden. Like that guy hauling away trash from stuff he set up for me might mean it's just "too much" for him to work with me. It's been kind of a new concept to do genuinely what I want to do. I do a lot for my kid and that messes up my inner compass. Like I've tried very hard to provide different opportunities for her that don't work for me, but she doesn't even seem to be benefitting from them any long, so I'm not sure. Just heading into a bit of a limbo with some soul-searching ahead. Thanks for the support. Fear of rejection is very common….especially if there wasn’t a sense growing up that you were inherently loved. Glad you are taking some time to further explore it. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Mar 16, 2023 12:07:46 GMT
The other thing I began realizing was my jumping in to help. I can't remember if I was always this way. I think I used to be able to let people do things for me more. But just today - I paid a guy to help me with stuff, he said he'd haul away trash. I had 1 million other things to be doing and I started to haul it away.... I stopped, and let him do the rest. Someone inquired about my services, said she wanted in person not remote, and thank you. I could have said "I understand, best to you." And instead offered her referrals (which took time to look up some names). This is not too bad. But so many things like this throughout the day - Another person asked me a question that I didn't know the answer to and instead of saying "I don't know," I spent 15 minutes looking for the answer. I did extra work in a group I'm in when I didn't have to (someone else was looking for the info, and I knew I could find it fast, so I did). There also seems to be a big control aspect to this. But anyway, in talking about my trigger around people just wanting it easy - when I haven't had it easy - I'm looking at the ways I just don't let things be easy or less effort, etc. Somehow doing these things and putting in effort feels like one of my ways of coping. I am just so not used to sitting back. Ever. This sounds like a great breakthrough and place to explore boundaries…not only with your time, but exactly what are you “getting” (or more accurately think you are getting by doing this?). In my case…It still stings and I won’t take up your post with details, but it ties into this notion that my worth had to be “earned” and thus could be taken away if I did not over give. The root of yours may in fact be vastly different but likely ties back somehow to the dynamics within your family. Might also be good to jot each of these down to see if there is a pattern. But great work on getting to some root stuff. I struggle with the notion that someone's worth could be anything but earned. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Mar 16, 2023 12:09:55 GMT
Thanks, @tnr -- I think it's all part of overfunctioning, which I've posted about before. I'm not sure if I can trace it back to family - I'm sure though - but seems to be also something about rejection. Like I don't want people to resent me or feel that I'm a burden. Like that guy hauling away trash from stuff he set up for me might mean it's just "too much" for him to work with me. It's been kind of a new concept to do genuinely what I want to do. I do a lot for my kid and that messes up my inner compass. Like I've tried very hard to provide different opportunities for her that don't work for me, but she doesn't even seem to be benefitting from them any long, so I'm not sure. Just heading into a bit of a limbo with some soul-searching ahead. Thanks for the support. Feeling like a burden seems to be a central theme in a lot of insecure behaviours. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Mar 16, 2023 14:07:22 GMT
This sounds like a great breakthrough and place to explore boundaries…not only with your time, but exactly what are you “getting” (or more accurately think you are getting by doing this?). In my case…It still stings and I won’t take up your post with details, but it ties into this notion that my worth had to be “earned” and thus could be taken away if I did not over give. The root of yours may in fact be vastly different but likely ties back somehow to the dynamics within your family. Might also be good to jot each of these down to see if there is a pattern. But great work on getting to some root stuff. I struggle with the notion that someone's worth could be anything but earned. It took a hell of a long time for me to wrap my mind around intrinsic value…that my worth as a person was not “tied” to anything…not my behavior or my performance or my money or my looks etc. I still struggle with disappointing people, I still struggle with accepting all of who I am, but at my core, I now know that I have value. It is truly freeing to know that my value is not in the hands of other flawed people…they can have opinions about me, just as I have opinions about them….but that is all it is. Sending a virtual l hug if you are ok with it. 🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Mar 17, 2023 5:34:44 GMT
I struggle with the notion that someone's worth could be anything but earned. It took a hell of a long time for me to wrap my mind around intrinsic value…that my worth as a person was not “tied” to anything…not my behavior or my performance or my money or my looks etc. I still struggle with disappointing people, I still struggle with accepting all of who I am, but at my core, I now know that I have value. It is truly freeing to know that my value is not in the hands of other flawed people…they can have opinions about me, just as I have opinions about them….but that is all it is. Sending a virtual l hug if you are ok with it. 🙂 Yeah sure I'll take the virtual hug ☺ Is there any way you could explain this to me? The intrinsic value thing.... |
|
|
|
Post by sunrisequest on Mar 17, 2023 8:28:09 GMT
krolle There's a thing that I do for my son when he's getting ready to sleep... he likes me to sing him a song where I tell him that he's perfect just as he is, that his soul is perfect, he doesn't need to be anything different, or do anything different to be loved... and that I accept him just as he is, and I love him no matter what he does etc... it's a weird little song we made up, but he really likes it. He likes to test me and ask all these crazy things he could do, and whether I'd still love him afterwards... It's very hard for an impulsive, neurotic-divergent kid who gets in trouble a lot to feel this intrinsic worth, so we also talk about this as an abstract idea when he acts out (which is a lot)... I tell him that I don't judge him by his anger, or his behaviour or anything else he does... these are just coping mechanisms for the big feelings he has inside of him... the idea is that he learns to separate his behaviour from who he is as a person, and so he can know that he has a perfect soul, is good in his core, and he's loved regardless of what he does... Internal Family Systems therapy deals with this kind of notion as well, which is that we all have different parts of us.. lots of coping mechanisms that we use to deal with fear and pain, but we are all whole, and we all have a calm, compassionate core just waiting to be healed... it's a fascinating type of therapy actually, I'd love to try it. This kind of unconditional love is not as commonly seen in romantic relationships, which are more transactional and boundaried... But I think a lot or all of us with insecure attachments didn't get this unconditional love from our parents and that's why we seek it from our partners through dysfunctional behaviours... we are looking to fill that hole. Not sure if that helps or confuses things..?!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 10:34:57 GMT
The concept of intrinsic value is easier to grasp as a parent, I think. It is natural for most parents to value their child, it's instinctual.
What if you aren't a parent? Does a stranger's infant have value to you? If you saw an infant, abandoned, without protection, crying, and nobody but you to help it...What would you do and why? Did it earn any response from you? Does your response, whatever it is, say something about you, the infant, or both? Just questions to ponder.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Mar 17, 2023 22:49:18 GMT
I was struggling to understand the root of some of those last few posts. To summarise, you are questioning why you give so much when you dont have to? And also that you are frustrated when people are unreasonably optimistic?/ or that they have things/want things the easy way? Is that roughly correct? Yes, there are a couple issues I've identified. Largely the trigger is around people who want to disconnect from reality and then have me join them in that. That makes me feel like an enabler, and it triggers some childhood stuff that I'm looking at now in therapy. For example, I recently helped a friend possibly identify a very big issue that might be impacting her kid (she's been begging me for help and also having a lot of boundary issues). I gave her the information. And she later wrote me and said, "Maybe I'm being alarmist. Why can't life just be beautiful? Why this? What a waste of life to not be enjoy it." I don't know what to do with that. Just like, "ok." Maybe please don't keep beginning me to give you time I don't have and then when I do, turn it around by using more of my time to resist reality. Anyway, lots of that sort of thing. I also notice, that some of it could be that I am too serious. I do have a hard time being easy, free, optimistic, accepting things from others, receiving, help. This relates to the above, because I thought maybe that's part of my trigger too - like a friend who tells me to just "trust the universe" if I get concerned about money. Meanwhile she's had serious debt and money issues but now has an inheritance coming to her and tells me to "just trust" <--- This irritates me. But then, what do I know, maybe she's right? So I'm trying this on. Rather than getting so triggered, why not just be carefree? Ha. So I'm starting to practice by removing myself more from these interactions, doing more things I love. Asking for things, etc. I reached out to someone for Italian lessons this week, changed my profile on a dating site to a "fun" photo of me, and am looking for a writing group. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Mar 17, 2023 22:53:31 GMT
So here's a thing.
Today, I asked for help.
I got turned down.
It feels hard. I have a strong reaction. This is a thing. Another trigger I'll look at in therapy, but I think I'm super sensitive to asking for support (when I never do) and not being able to have a reasonable request met. So I don't "put myself out there," and do it all alone.
Still working on this and finding a healthy balance, but it showed me why I usually avoid even asking.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Mar 17, 2023 22:54:51 GMT
This is a lovely thought! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 23:45:33 GMT
I was struggling to understand the root of some of those last few posts. To summarise, you are questioning why you give so much when you dont have to? And also that you are frustrated when people are unreasonably optimistic?/ or that they have things/want things the easy way? Is that roughly correct? Yes, there are a couple issues I've identified. Largely the trigger is around people who want to disconnect from reality and then have me join them in that. That makes me feel like an enabler, and it triggers some childhood stuff that I'm looking at now in therapy. For example, I recently helped a friend possibly identify a very big issue that might be impacting her kid (she's been begging me for help and also having a lot of boundary issues). I gave her the information. And she later wrote me and said, "Maybe I'm being alarmist. Why can't life just be beautiful? Why this? What a waste of life to not be enjoy it." I don't know what to do with that. Just like, "ok." Maybe please don't keep beginning me to give you time I don't have and then when I do, turn it around by using more of my time to resist reality. Anyway, lots of that sort of thing. I also notice, that some of it could be that I am too serious. I do have a hard time being easy, free, optimistic, accepting things from others, receiving, help. This relates to the above, because I thought maybe that's part of my trigger too - like a friend who tells me to just "trust the universe" if I get concerned about money. Meanwhile she's had serious debt and money issues but now has an inheritance coming to her and tells me to "just trust" <--- This irritates me. But then, what do I know, maybe she's right? So I'm trying this on. Rather than getting so triggered, why not just be carefree? Ha. So I'm starting to practice by removing myself more from these interactions, doing more things I love. Asking for things, etc. I reached out to someone for Italian lessons this week, changed my profile on a dating site to a "fun" photo of me, and am looking for a writing group. I think that taking life seriously is kind of an HSP thing, too. We DO process all kinds of things on a deeper level. So trauma + HSP could create a kind of hypervigilance. We are wired to scan for opportunities AND risks and weigh them all. One of our gifts is being able to see deeply, it can also be a burden sometimes, that may prevent us from being lighthearted... at least until we experience more healing and move into safety. I am very playful, can make a room laugh (believe it or not haha)... but I'm always in touch with the tragedy and beauty of life. It's a special way of being, I think... but it can be lonely if you aren't with other sensitive people, or are surrounded by people not operating consciously, authentically. We need the lighthearted, the dreamers, the ones who seem to us naive... they have their own path and their own special gifts, and we can't all be sensitive. We need the builders, the warriors, all the other types and they need us too. We do learn from each other although that's not always apparent, nor is it always easy. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Mar 18, 2023 0:11:54 GMT
Thanks, Introvert.
I think Krolle's question was asking for clarification and I didn't meant to give the impression that I'm not okay with light-hearted people. I'm also not all that serious all the time.
But I think for time's sake I just wrote it all that way - and yet... what the real issue is are the examples I gave (just in case anyone is reading this and getting more confused). I don't get triggered around light-hearted people.
It's a very specific thing that happens again and again and is wrecking my relationships. So I'm very motivated to look at it, but I just didn't want to confuse it with the whole HSP/serious thing - even though what you wrote is in important point and very insightful.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Mar 18, 2023 0:22:44 GMT
The best example I can give is that I do not know how to just switch gears with someone when they decide they've had too much of their own situation. While I can do that on the surface - I have been triggered repeatedly...
A big one was many years ago when a friend in our grad school group complained all the time about an abusive partner. He actually threw things at her. She spent one of our trips together in the bathroom with him on the phone and a ton of drama and crying.
All my friends gladly went to her wedding when she invited them. I had a really hard time with this. I was advised I needed to go and support her and I protested (I was young -- in my 20s). In a way, I was handling it pretty immaturely, but it's the same trigger!
Turns out, I was going to be out of the country during the wedding, so I had that excuse, but it forever impacted our friendship. And I guess they are still married.
--
The one that more recently (almost 2 years ago now) kicked off this realization is a friend I wrote about extensively here - she's definitely HSP. She had an abusive ex. She sent her kids to him on a day he was using. Her lawyer's secretary advised her not to. I advised her not to. Her kids were begging her not to go. I got a little ... "intense" about it. Later, she called me and I picked up thinking, "OMG, I hope everything is okay and she didn't send them." And turns out she did, she had just had a therapy session and wanted to talk about how when she was little she had to quit gymnastics and how sad she was about that.
It was surreal. I wasn't even sure how to respond, so I didn't. And when I didn't, she said something - like, "well?" I brought up her ex instead. And she said she didn't want to talk about that, and I said I had to go. I couldn't just switch gears and use my time (which I didn't have -- it was between clients) to talk about how she quit gymnastics when she was little.
Later, we sort of argued about it? I don't remember the details, but I got pretty adamant that I couldn't enable someone. And she told me later that I gave her a panic attack.
So I don't know if that makes me "serious" or what. But sometimes it's like I feel like the only adult in the room. And it's lonely.
Or I'm the one calling out the obvious elephant in the room and people don't want to go there.
Or people confess to me their deep dark secrets about how their husband is treating them, but then want me to celebrate with them when they buy a house together. And I'm simply not so great at faking it or going along with things like that.
So what I'm working on is a "part" (IFS stuff) of me that is super wounded about something - I'm not sure what yet. But it doesn't want to have to pretend, and go away, to not inconvenience other people with its truth, if that makes sense.
So I'm talking less about "light-hearted" people and more about people who can stay in denial or --- I honestly don't know what you'd call it. But there's another example above about my friend stating "What a waste of life to not enjoy it" when her son is in critical crises, and she's asking for help, and she has stuff to take care of that is pretty urgent. But that's what I bristle against and struggle with more than anything here...
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Mar 18, 2023 14:29:44 GMT
seeking, when I look at those examples, I think your responses were reasonable. If one stands for nothing, one will fall for anything. We have the sovereignty over our lives to be true to ourselves. It’s hard. My experience is that people drop off, sometimes those I hadn’t expected. They gave their own paths, though. The further I go on, the narrower the path seems to become, and that’s ok with me. The conscience that comes with the practice gets more honed.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Mar 18, 2023 15:49:28 GMT
seeking , when I look at those examples, I think your responses were reasonable. If one stands for nothing, one will fall for anything. We have the sovereignty over our lives to be true to ourselves. It’s hard. My experience is that people drop off, sometimes those I hadn’t expected. They gave their own paths, though. The further I go on, the narrower the path seems to become, and that’s ok with me. The conscience that comes with the practice gets more honed. Thanks. Yes, this has pretty much been the essence of my journey along with this post. It started out as needing validation around this. And my therapist wanted me to explore my need for validation, which I did. He determined the need is more connected and a need for perspective, not just external "tell me what to do." I always have a hunch, but then lots of doubt. And the doubt about "what to do" or how to respond is partly confused by the fact that I have a "trigger" around this - my own stuff comes into it. So I'm sorting it all out now - trying to heal the triggered part, while also keeping boundaries with the folks who need to live this way/behave this way for their own reasons. So instead of me confidently going, "That's not okay." I get to "That's not okay," but with a big reaction and then go "wait, maybe it's me?" "Oh, what is going on here." And it gets convoluted. It's also complicated by my rejection/abandonment sensitivities - and attachment stuff. So I used to just end things. And now I'm trying to not have that reflexive reaction, but also not cling too much. When I do let go of these types of people, I end up feeling a heavy horrible aloneness that is like early abandonment. And also these types of people have meshed with my own coping strategies - one of which, is to avoid my own self/pain - and get distracted by their stuff. So that's it in a nutshell. Fun times, lol. |
|
