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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 15:22:19 GMT
@introvert , My mum was married for the first time at 47 to a working bachelor. She then proceeded to manage his life, filling in his gaps, managing him out of the workforce and onto benefits at the first opportunity to be her “carer”, consolidating welfare housing, and she was never satisfied. She made fun of every expression of his masculinity privately, even though these pursuits suited her at times. Mum passed on in 2020, so he’s back working part time. Now my sister has taken over my Mum’s role -mostly. So, no. My question would be, if I was him would be… What are you bringing?”.Equality absolutely works both ways. How gross, that's just horrible. It's very entitled and abusive on your mother's part, in my opinion. I ABSOLUTELY agree thst equality goes both ways! In my situation, I never went in looking for someone to take care of me. I've been doing that for decades, taking care of myself and my kids and it's been a long haul. But I wasn't looking to get under someone else's umbrella. I wasn't looking for relief. I was looking for a boyfriend, for a partner and friend. And that's what I had to offer. We are now in somewhat traditional roles, he beings what he has to offer and I bring what I have to offer. I respect and admire his masculinity, but I don't take his help and support for granted, by any means. I would say the same is true in reverse. We maintain separate finances, and I still provide for myself and my young adults, and teen. I haven't taken any steps back. He just fully supports me in ways that he can, he's a huge emotional support and also provides practical support such as car repairs, they all drive and all need help with their cars from time to time! Stuff like that- any emergency and I'm not trying to handle it single handedly... he pulls along side to assist. And on the other side... he owns a store and I provide support for his logistical needs there. Accommodating his hours alone is a lifestyle change I've made, and I take care of him by doing all the household stuff in addition to working full time, it's what works for us. He tends to have long hours dictated by the store and my schedule is in my control as a self employed person. We both agree that our lives have improved significantly through our partnership, and it's what we wish we would have had the first time around. So my point is, whatever an individual's circumstance, healthy partnership which practically benefits both people is entirely possible. The example of your mother or people who go in with a need for any kind of rescue is not healthy or mutually beneficial, it's apples and oranges. It sounds parasitic. I agree... any man should be evaluating what his potential partner is bringing! Any man or woman should be asking that. What works for the individuals is up to them. I'm not in any way suggesting that men are obliged to step in and fill a role that a woman needs or vice versa. We end up in the circumstances we co-create when it comes to kids and how our relationships turn out, and we have to be in a healthy place with it all in order to build the life we want with someone else. In my case, I had to be in a place where I wasn't in a place of overwhelm, bitterness, and exhaustion with a scarcity mindset. Not to say I was never there! But at that time , relationship 2as not the answer, more healing and repair in my own life and capacity for relationships was. It was a long road, and I walked it alone or in spotty relationships that served as signposts for what direction I needed to travel. So, I'm agreeing with you, not disagreeing.
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 15:25:14 GMT
What is preventing a meeting in person? I know sparks online would be fabulous…..but perhaps he is waiting to meet you first…..just a thought…. It's a vicious cycle. I have the time to invest in someone who is genuinely interested, but his "Hey, I'll come check out your town and the community you created" - I don't have time to put my life on display for someone who is apparently going around the country to check out people's lives? It's weird.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 15:30:11 GMT
@introvert , My mum was married for the first time at 47 to a working bachelor. She then proceeded to manage his life, filling in his gaps, managing him out of the workforce and onto benefits at the first opportunity to be her “carer”, consolidating welfare housing, and she was never satisfied. She made fun of every expression of his masculinity privately, even though these pursuits suited her at times. Mum passed on in 2020, so he’s back working part time. Now my sister has taken over my Mum’s role -mostly. So, no. My question would be, if I was him would be… What are you bringing?”.Equality absolutely works both ways. And I should clarify... in this situation, it's the man I am seeing as the one who shouldn't have to prove that he fits the bill before she consents to even meet him. No one should. Dating is a process of discovery and there's no point going deep if someone won't even meet in person. That's his opportunity to see if he wants to proceed with actual courtship, just as it's hers. To be assessing suitability for the big picture without meeting is completely backward. My point here is that it's unrealistic and unreasonable to look for assurances that someone fits without ever having met in person, either from his perspective or hers. It's screams unavailability. The guy is being measured as worthy or not by someone who refuses to actually meet in person. I don't understand that part of this.
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 15:32:49 GMT
How interested is he supposed to be in someone who won't meet him in person? Fair enough. I don't need him to be super interested. But interested in me would be more like it versus like interested in studying my lifestyle or however he's been putting it. Like right now he's visiting someone down south who is building a home on land that she built. He's told me about this person, so he's going to visit to see the "progress she's made." I know he met her on the dating site, and maybe it's not a match and they are staying friends, but that's not something I'm looking for right now. I'm not looking for a long-distance friend. I have one - and he and I have been a HUGE emotional support to one another for years. Even if we know nothing will happen in person. I'm more interested in that right now than a buddy who wants to talk about community building.
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 15:38:02 GMT
Sorry in advance. This is going to be rough. As an almost 50 year old man, I couldn’t imagine wanting a role like you’re after. Why should you get to slow down and take your feet off the pedals, regardless of the hard time you’ve had, and expect me to fill your void when I’ve been pedalling my own pedals forever? My experience is that most men my age who have been through divorce are very unlikely to want that again. I’ve seen this time and again through dating. Middle aged women still looking for the Prince, the fairytale. The same stuff they were looking for in their 20s, and frankly, it boggles me. You don't have to be sorry. I'm open to hearing from others. Just to clarify, there's a lot out there about male/female energy and I'm talking more about that than someone coming in and letting me lift my feet off the pedals. I'll always be who I am, which is a do-er and go-getter and business owner. I will carry my own weight. But what I do is not normal or healthy for a human or a child. It's not okay. Humans weren't designed to live alone in isolation w/no extended family, support, etc. I have tried to form communities - church, politics, homeschooling. We can't even get to the meetings half the time b/c we have so much going on or it's work related or my kid is tired, etc. Another adult here would definitely create more of a human balance. He picks up the groceries, I cook. He does the lawn and car stuff, and I launder the clothes. Right now that guy is out there somewhere doing it all on his own, feeling lonely, maybe having "dad energy" and missing his own grown children and would LOVE to be a father figure to a girl who dearly needs one. Would love to share a life with a woman who is strong, independent, loving, caring. Who loves to mow the lawn or fix things up around the house and feel useful and a sense of belonging to a family and share meals, share a bed, go on outings. What I am describing - and intending - is a win-win for everyone, not a one-way street.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 15:39:38 GMT
How interested is he supposed to be in someone who won't meet him in person? Fair enough. I don't need him to be super interested. But interested in me would be more like it versus like interested in studying my lifestyle or however he's been putting it. Like right now he's visiting someone down south who is building a home on land that she built. He's told me about this person, so he's going to visit to see the "progress she's made." I know he met her on the dating site, and maybe it's not a match and they are staying friends, but that's not something I'm looking for right now. I'm not looking for a long-distance friend. I have one - and he and I have been a HUGE emotional support to one another for years. Even if we know nothing will happen in person. I'm more interested in that right now than a buddy who wants to talk about community building. I would say it would be fair for him to say the same thing. What clearer way to express that you aren't interested in HIM than to refuse to meet him? After all, you would be meeting HIM, not his lifestyle. You have rejected him essentially. If that's fine with him and he still is open to communicating then that's that. Are you testing him? Why should he express interest in someone who won't even make themselves physically present to him?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 15:40:59 GMT
Sorry in advance. This is going to be rough. As an almost 50 year old man, I couldn’t imagine wanting a role like you’re after. Why should you get to slow down and take your feet off the pedals, regardless of the hard time you’ve had, and expect me to fill your void when I’ve been pedalling my own pedals forever? My experience is that most men my age who have been through divorce are very unlikely to want that again. I’ve seen this time and again through dating. Middle aged women still looking for the Prince, the fairytale. The same stuff they were looking for in their 20s, and frankly, it boggles me. You don't have to be sorry. I'm open to hearing from others. Just to clarify, there's a lot out there about male/female energy and I'm talking more about that than someone coming in and letting me lift my feet off the pedals. I'll always be who I am, which is a do-er and go-getter and business owner. I will carry my own weight. But what I do is not normal or healthy for a human or a child. It's not okay. Humans weren't designed to live alone in isolation w/no extended family, support, etc. I have tried to form communities - church, politics, homeschooling. We can't even get to the meetings half the time b/c we have so much going on or it's work related or my kid is tired, etc. Another adult here would definitely create more of a human balance. He picks up the groceries, I cook. He does the lawn and car stuff, and I launder the clothes. Right now that guy is out there somewhere doing it all on his own, feeling lonely, maybe having "dad energy" and missing his own grown children and would LOVE to be a father figure to a girl who dearly needs one. Would love to share a life with a woman who is strong, independent, loving, caring. Who love to mow a lawn or fix things up around the house and feel useful and a sense of belonging to a family and share meals, share a bed, go on outings. I'm pretty sure it's not a prince or fairy tale. It would work both ways. What you're describing is what has evolved with my partner and I and we love it! But we had to meet in person first.
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 15:51:19 GMT
I completely understand wanting someone in a traditional male role, of wanting to be safe to just let go, and they take care of things for once. I know I struggle with dropping down into my feminine energy to let men do this. I've been told a few times they want to do this, but I simply don't provide them the opportunity to do so. I can totally see why you think what do you about his lifestyle and yours not being compatible. I mean it makes sense that if he so comfy why would he want to uproot everything. But again, you've never met or explored this so it's hard. I also get why him saying he feels "warmth" when you don't feel that same level of connection could make you feel unseen and maybe projected upon? Like ARE YOU ACTUALLY SEEING ME?!? Type of response or are you seeing who you think I am. But again online only is dangerous for that. I like tnr9 suggestion of doing something nice for yourself and just accept that you are navigating this with the tools you have available and it isn't working out the way you wanted and that is sad. But I also don't see the harm in meeting him, provided you feel you have the emotional energy to navigate something long distance and then it will be a HUGE life change for both of you and not for the faint of heart. My longest relationship was 2 years long distance before ending up together and I actually enjoyed the extended courting and space to live my own life. It really took some of the pressure off and I knew he was really in it for me, because it certainly wasn't easy, and isn't for everyone and if you don't have a huge amount of extra bandwidth could just be something you can't accommodate right now. edit: sorry it's been a long day and I think my writing has gone. I will also say, are you perhaps looking for a stronger sense from him because it would feel safer if he was all enthusiastic and you were different and special? You don't want to just be another "friend" on his list of people to visit, because then it's more vulnerable if you are really into him and he isn't as into you and it fizzles out? Yes to all of this. I took my profile off online dating and have recently lost a lot of weight, got a totally new hair cut. Changed my diet to a healing one and skin looks good. I get compliments all the time. I decided I'll be noticed by someone in person when the time is right. This is huge for me and a first after many, many, many years of online dating. I'm launching a new part of my business this fall which will hopefully bring in a lot more income. My daughter is doing well and we have some possible trips planned and 8th grade planned (we homeschool). I signed up for Italian classes and a writing class. I'm excited to share that with someone. Not be a "friend" on a list of people to visit. And, yes, it does make me feel vulnerable but at this point, I'm not into *him* enough to really think I'd be really into him.
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Post by tnr9 on May 3, 2023 15:55:21 GMT
How interested is he supposed to be in someone who won't meet him in person? Fair enough. I don't need him to be super interested. But interested in me would be more like it versus like interested in studying my lifestyle or however he's been putting it. Like right now he's visiting someone down south who is building a home on land that she built. He's told me about this person, so he's going to visit to see the "progress she's made." I know he met her on the dating site, and maybe it's not a match and they are staying friends, but that's not something I'm looking for right now. I'm not looking for a long-distance friend. I have one - and he and I have been a HUGE emotional support to one another for years. Even if we know nothing will happen in person. I'm more interested in that right now than a buddy who wants to talk about community building. But have you even discussed this with him? I feel like maybe you are “story filling” instead of being curious and asking questions. We all have a tendency to story fill….Brene Brown speaks to this….but when we do this…and react as if our story filling is the truth…we rob the other person of the chance to state their truth. Brene addresses this by saying….”the story in my head is….” And then lets the other person correct that story. This might be a good tactic to clarify why he is traveling to other locations and why he keeps talking about coming to see your community…and what his real intentions are….
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 16:04:04 GMT
The fairy tale part of this scenario, to me, is the expectation that you can know whether or not there is potential without ever having met and given a chance to establish a real human relationship complete with attraction, compatibility, a bond. Without ever putting the work into dating, the vulnerability and risk involved, the lack of guarantees, the discovery process. You can't avoid the process of real life in person dating and expect any potential or reasonably be disappointed when it doesn't work out. Feelings are feelings but staying on the sidelines results in only feelongs... nothing more and nothing less.
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Post by alexandra on May 3, 2023 17:23:45 GMT
I agree with all the posters pointing out how heavy an ask this is without meeting and exploring a connection first in a way that isn't low stakes. I agree with mrob that you're not letting a guy even get to know you so he can make the decision whether or not he wants to grow your lives together in the direction you're saying you want, so there's no way you should assume he'll be into jumping into that lifestyle and obligations going into an initial conversation, that he should be all in for what you're describing. Even though you plan to pull your own weight too. Yes, you don't want someone who is in a completely different life stage than you and knows they DON'T want those things, but unless they tell you that (and hopefully you're at an age where people do know what they want with the right person and will be upfront about it), you can't mindread and make assumptions. You still need to meet and get to know each other properly. I don't blame him for not investing in you at all once you refused to meet after a few months (and for me personally, it would have happened if you'd refused to meet or escalate contact assuming it was long distance prior to that, I wouldn't have even waited a few months to decide). Wanting what you're describing without doing the work to organically build up to it will get you the wrong man: a man who wants an instant-family without actually caring who it is. So there won't be any depth, because that's someone who wants the role and image and wants it to match an idea in his head. It would be projection from their side, and that will be someone who probably can't roll with the punches once reality deviates from that imagined ideal. It's what insecures can want, and those relationships tend to fall apart. The men I know who take on stepchildren didn't go into it wanting and looking to take on stepchildren. They weren't at all opposed to it, they didn't need their minds changed, but they organically got to know the partner, found they were compatible, and fell in love with her and her family as the entire package. Your jobs are: know your life stage and what you want next in general (you've been doing that, good). Talk to people to find out if they're in the same life stage. Not hint and assume based on "he seems to be traveling and meeting lots of friends after we didn't meet in person for a year that he doesn't want a serious partner." Not making assumptions based on the groceries he buys and his streamlining chores. Actually have that discussion early, what is the guy looking for? Walk away if they're never looking to remarry and are done dealing with children. Meet in person if he's open to those things and you seem to be able to have a conversation without him seeming too weird to you. But don't project who he should BE "ideally," get to know him. That requires some vulnerability, openness, and not acting based in fear, and that sounds like it's all where you're still stuck. Which makes sense you have those apprehensions, considering how awful your daughter's father is and how some of your family has always been. But your fears only guide you with how to act with emotionally unhealthy people to connect with them, and don't work for establishing connections with those who might be right for you.
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Post by lovebunny on May 3, 2023 19:18:16 GMT
I'm also interested in someone with a more "masculine" energy than mine, be they male or female. I want them to bring different things to the table than I do: physical size and strength, mechanical aptitude come to mind. In return, they can benefit from my emotional intelligence, my attention to detail, etc. One of the things I grieve most over my recent breakup was having someone around who could build sheds and fix plumbing. In return, he was happy to have a caregiver for his pets and someone more organized to keep the home tidy and comfortable.
I wonder if you *envy,* not his flying to random friends of course, but because he is not hungry for a relationship, just having fun meeting new people. I have felt similarly annoyed with attractive people who aren't seeking r'ships because they have this thing (relationship energy) that I want, and they're squandering it! I feel forced (by my anxious attachment) to participate in this dance, while they're just f-ing around.
Also, sounds you're frustrated because he's treating you like another "friend," and you want him (or somebody) to have clear romantic intentions towards you.
But given that he hasn't met you, how can he know what kind of relationship he wants from you? How do you know he isn't interested in being a protector/provider etc.? Asked him? Did you try initiating deeper conversations with him and it just fell flat, or were you holding back for fear of scaring him away?
I say if you're not enjoying your interactions with him, if you feel the friendship does't run deep and is a waste of time, you probably won't be into him as a potential partner anyway. But I don't think he deserves any harsh words, he's just a dorky guy having fun meeting lots of new people, good for him. You just want someone a little more grounded.
I think finding a traditional guy like that our age is not easy, lots of them already raised their kids and divorced their wives and are done with all that, but Introvert found such a fellow, so they're out there!
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 19:59:55 GMT
The fairy tale part of this scenario, to me, is the expectation that you can know whether or not there is potential without ever having met and given a chance to establish a real human relationship complete with attraction, compatibility, a bond. Without ever putting the work into dating, the vulnerability and risk involved, the lack of guarantees, the discovery process. You can't avoid the process of real life in person dating and expect any potential or reasonably be disappointed when it doesn't work out. Feelings are feelings but staying on the sidelines results in only feelongs... nothing more and nothing less. I hear you. I know you keep saying this and just letting you know it's landed and been heard. But this is a unique situation - he lives hours away and he reached out to me, and I'm not really looking for something long distance. Since his contact, and since my own frustration with not meeting, I've decided to take my profile down and put my intention into meeting my person in person (not online). Part of my post was how to tell him. I've been not great about that and have "faded" a number of times, only for him to come back to share with me about all his trips - he literally gives me dates and the thing he is interested in going to see "This person is building a hydroelectric blah blah blah, so I'm going to see how it's going." I've been reluctant, for my own parts, to make myself available to someone who is coming to do sociological research on my life. I didn't put a personals ad up for that. I did for interpersonal connection. Not a guy friend who has some things in common. I do understand a secure friendship can turn into more. But if I had that guy in my life now rather than outside my life looking at it like some kind of specimen, I'd be fine with that. But he's coming up for a day trip and he's driving hours. And I don't want that kind of pressure or to spend the day with someone I'm not really interested in. Again, it would be different if he were in the next town - I would never have emailed him this long and would have already met for coffee 1000x times over.... So I'm avoiding all this now in the future by having no dating profiles up and setting the intention that the guy can find me in the world at large.
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 20:08:17 GMT
I wonder if you *envy,* not his flying to random friends of course, but because he is not hungry for a relationship, just having fun meeting new people. No to this. I envy nothing about him. In fact, it all sounds exhausting. I'm finally relishing in the fact that I really want a connection with someone -- that I am finally over bad-boys, drama, narcissists. That I am in a good place in my life, am steady, stable, healthy, know myself. That I'm not looking to be rescued. I want to meet someone available for interpersonal connection - knowing and being known/seen/witnessed, whatever you want to call it. I get the impression he is like a kid in a candy shop suddenly free - divorced, kids grown, and now he gets to go out and explore. That's fine. I did that prior to my daughter. Then I wanted to settle down, and I still do. Granted, I will probably travel a bit. But largely I'm looking for someone who wants to be known and seen on a more personal landscape. In the year I've corresponded with him (for whatever reason I did that), he's not once reflected on how something impacted him personally. It's like a news-reporter, "I went with friends to see the cherry blossoms. A good time was had by all." I've wondered if he is maybe on the spectrum. I think I went along with it b/c I was lonely, feeling scarce, and no one else was writing.... and I'm sorry if I led him on, but his last note, I realized clearly I do not want him to drive all the way up here to spend the day with me so he can take a look at the community I created, which actually is falling apart. He idealizes things. And I'm just a real human living a real human messy life. And I'm okay with that.
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Post by seeking on May 3, 2023 20:15:24 GMT
Also, sounds you're frustrated because he's treating you like another "friend," and you want him (or somebody) to have clear romantic intentions towards you. But given that he hasn't met you, how can he know what kind of relationship he wants from you? How do you know he isn't interested in being a protector/provider etc.? Asked him? Did you try initiating deeper conversations with him and it just fell flat, or were you holding back for fear of scaring him away? I say if you're not enjoying your interactions with him, if you feel the friendship does't run deep and is a waste of time, you probably won't be into him as a potential partner anyway. But I don't think he deserves any harsh words, he's just a dorky guy having fun meeting lots of new people, good for him. You just want someone a little more grounded. I think finding a traditional guy like that our age is not easy, lots of them already raised their kids and divorced their wives and are done with all that, but Introvert found such a fellow, so they're out there! Yes - want more romantic intentions. But not gonna meet at this point. Initiating deeper conversations ALWAYS fell flat. It was disappointing. No, he does not deserve harsh words. I was just exploring what wound in me wanted to lash out at him (not that I would). But I do want to give him the benefit of knowing I don't plan to continue, rather than him continuing to write me. Just not sure how to say that. I do think they're out there! I will meet one. When, no idea... but that's pretty much the filter I've chosen, narrow as it may be. As far as him and the provider thing, I lost interest a long time ago after we talked and he told me about his spending $23 a week on groceries and how he spent extra at easter so was challenging himself to spend $17 on groceries for the upcoming weeks to make up for it. I'm someone who spends hundreds a week for me and my daughter and only eats organic food b/c I have a kid on the spectrum, believes food is medicine, gets from local farmers, etc.
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