|
|
Post by mrob on Jul 10, 2023 21:26:25 GMT
aeropro, that was the other point. Now it’s time to leave her alone. Life will shape her from here on in, as it does with everyone. It’s not your place to make her “accountable”. She’s on her trajectory, you’re on yours. Having the last word really doesn’t help.
|
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Jul 10, 2023 22:36:11 GMT
I find the language you are using around this quite inflammatory.
You say. "I was caught in a toxic situation, absolutely, but my intentions were pure." So were her intensions not also pure? Most people are not evil, they don't go around purposely trying to harm others. Not saying what she did wasn't shitty and hurtful. Just that if we asked her I'm sure she would have a very justified reason why she did what she did and to her, that would be her truth.
There is rarely one subjective truth to anything, yet you keep relying on this belief that you are right, and as such that makes you the wronged one and entitled to share this truth with her as she is wrong.
Many times our truth is based on our own subjective emotional experiences and that both partners are actually right when you look at the experience through their unique lense.
I'm all for holding someone accountable when needed however it is not your place to tell her about her short comings in the forum that you did.
Additionally until someone is ready to hear something it doesn't matter how you word it or who says it to them they simply are not ready. I have to wonder how many other times during this short encounter did you get up on your soap box to tell her how wrong she was about something?
|
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 10, 2023 23:10:37 GMT
aeropro , that was the other point. Now it’s time to leave her alone. Life will shape her from here on in, as it does with everyone. It’s not your place to make her “accountable”. She’s on her trajectory, you’re on yours. Having the last word really doesn’t help. Agreed - absolutely. It doesn't help at all, but I'm happy that I wasn't spiteful or mean towards her. All good things her way. |
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 10, 2023 23:35:54 GMT
I find the language you are using around this quite inflammatory. You say. "I was caught in a toxic situation, absolutely, but my intentions were pure." So were her intensions not also pure? Most people are not evil, they don't go around purposely trying to harm others. Not saying what she did wasn't shitty and hurtful. Just that if we asked her I'm sure she would have a very justified reason why she did what she did and to her, that would be her truth. There is rarely one subjective truth to anything, yet you keep relying on this belief that you are right, and as such that makes you the wronged one and entitled to share this truth with her as she is wrong. Many times our truth is based on our own subjective emotional experiences and that both partners are actually right when you look at the experience through their unique lense. I'm all for holding someone accountable when needed however it is not your place to tell her about her short comings in the forum that you did. Additionally until someone is ready to hear something it doesn't matter how you word it or who says it to them they simply are not ready. I have to wonder how many other times during this short encounter did you get up on your soap box to tell her how wrong she was about something? She may have believed her intentions to be pure, that's fair. I don't think she is evil or that her actions were intentionally hurtful. But her ignorance doesn't excuse her treatment of me. I do not believe that I was 100% in the right with how she and I interacted after she chose to end things. However, I did own up to my shortcomings. She didn't. What is your belief, might I ask? For clarity's sake. Do you believe her, as an unaware FA, carried only the same amount of responsbility in the failing of our relationship? Not a snarky trap question, genuinely curious. This is where the nuance enters the conversation. If you asked an alcoholic if his behavior was justified, what would he tell you? Would his answer make him right? Wrong? You tell me. The fact is that, in my opinion, there is but one truth. Both sides can have pure intentions, and there can be but one truth. Those statements can coexist. If our individual lenses distort reality, then it is our responsibility to see to their adjustments. What do you think her place was with reaching out to me after ending the relationship? Did that respect my boundaries? I never preached to her during our relationship. Everything seemed normal, then I met her parents and she deactivated. Textbook FA style. Whether I was anxious, dismissive, an FA myself, secure, it didn't matter. There's no stopping the behavior. |
|
|
|
Post by kirrok on Jul 11, 2023 0:40:02 GMT
Both sides can have pure intentions, and there can be but one truth. Respectfully, you may find that this belief/attitude will make your life much more difficult than it needs to be specifically related to this situation you've described, and more generally. There is no objective truth in subjective experience, of which all relating is. You have your experience, she has hers. Both are valid and true for each of you because that is what is alive in you. In that sense, there is not one truth; there are at least two and probably many more running concurrently, and all of them are valid. This "there can be but one truth" is a fantasy sold to us by our culture, and all it does is perpetuate opposition because in that narrative someone has to be right, and someone has to be wrong. Your tender heart yearns for something beautiful, AND in the process it can cause unintended pain and upset for her. At the same time, her tender heart yearns for something beautiful (to not suffer, to be seen and understood, to be autonomous, etc.), AND in the process it causes you unintended pain and upset. I don't know either of you, but I'm confident that neither of you really wants upset for the other. What is clear is that you're hurt and it makes total sense that you're hurt given what you've described. It's an awful feeling to experience what you've experienced. That you seem resentful and somewhat indignant about what hurts you points to your very valid unmet needs. Find a way to meet those needs yourself, inside your own life, because that's what you have agency over. You don't have agency over this other person's thoughts, feelings, or behavior – that's a total fantasy, and any attempt to gain agency over it is only going to lead to suffering. Personally, when I find myself being pretty sure that others should learn to think and feel and speak and behave differently, then I find I'm thoroughly grounded in fantasy where I have absolutely no agency over what anyone else might ever do. I'm essentially standing in a place of disempowerment. Once I realize that I myself can learn to think and speak and behave differently, then I'm firmly grounded in reality where I have agency over what I do, and the environment I tend in my relating. This is true accountability and responsibility, and it has the tendency to reduce opposition. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jul 11, 2023 0:44:19 GMT
What do you think her place was with reaching out to me after ending the relationship? Did that respect my boundaries?
Did you tell her you wanted no contact? Did you block her from being able to contact you? This is an honest question as to whether you made it clear to her you wanted no contact at all from her…because if that were the case, then yes…she was not honoring your boundaries…but if you had not specifically stated that or if you replied to her, knowing it would cause a continuation in the discussion….then no…I don’t agree she dishonored your boundaries. And this would be an important talking point with your therapist….making your boundaries known in respectful ways. When my last boyfriend broke up with me, I both told him and texted him that I needed time to heal and that I needed to go no contact. That when I was ready, I would reach out and we could potentially resume communication. There is no mind reading in relationships….intentions must be stated and if not honored, restated. But I don’t see where you asked her to not contact you.
|
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 11, 2023 0:55:57 GMT
What do you think her place was with reaching out to me after ending the relationship? Did that respect my boundaries? Did you tell her you wanted no contact? Did you block her from being able to contact you? This is an honest question as to whether you made it clear to her you wanted no contact at all from her…because if that were the case, then yes…she was not honoring your boundaries…but if you had not specifically stated that or if you replied to her, knowing it would cause a continuation in the discussion….then no…I don’t agree she dishonored your boundaries. And this would be an important talking point with your therapist….making your boundaries known in respectful ways. When my last boyfriend broke up with me, I both told him and texted him that I needed time to heal and that I needed to go no contact. That when I was ready, I would reach out and we could potentially resume communication. There is no mind reading in relationships….intentions must be stated and if not honored, restated. But I don’t see where you asked her to not contact you. Yes, in my letter to her I did state that I would prefer if we remained out of contact. By that time I had educated myself on the issues, realized our incompatibilities, and knew that her coming back into my life would be a set-back. That is why I felt the need to be direct with my boundaries and my feelings in my text to her. |
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 11, 2023 0:59:42 GMT
Both sides can have pure intentions, and there can be but one truth. Respectfully, you may find that this belief/attitude will make your life much more difficult than it needs to be specifically related to this situation you've described, and more generally. There is no objective truth in subjective experience, of which all relating is. You have your experience, she has hers. Both are valid and true for each of you because that is what is alive in you. In that sense, there is not one truth; there are at least two and probably many more running concurrently, and all of them are valid. This "there can be but one truth" is a fantasy sold to us by our culture, and all it does is perpetuate opposition because in that narrative someone has to be right, and someone has to be wrong. Your tender heart yearns for something beautiful, AND in the process it can cause unintended pain and upset for her. At the same time, her tender heart yearns for something beautiful (to not suffer, to be seen and understood, to be autonomous, etc.), AND in the process it causes you unintended pain and upset. I don't know either of you, but I'm confident that neither of you really wants upset for the other. What is clear is that you're hurt and it makes total sense that you're hurt given what you've described. It's an awful feeling to experience what you've experienced. That you seem resentful and somewhat indignant about what hurts you points to your very valid unmet needs. Find a way to meet those needs yourself, inside your own life, because that's what you have agency over. You don't have agency over this other person's thoughts, feelings, or behavior – that's a total fantasy, and any attempt to gain agency over it is only going to lead to suffering. Personally, when I find myself being pretty sure that others should learn to think and feel and speak and behave differently, then I find I'm thoroughly grounded in fantasy where I have absolutely no agency over what anyone else might ever do. I'm essentially standing in a place of disempowerment. Once I realize that I myself can learn to think and speak and behave differently, then I'm firmly grounded in reality where I have agency over what I do, and the environment I tend in my relating. This is true accountability and responsibility, and it has the tendency to reduce opposition. Thank you for the comment. I agree that there are multiple "truths" in a philosophical sense, but there are limits to that which escape my understanding and beliefs. If we're both on a similar plane of understanding and have similar tools, then that's where compromise and understanding can bridge the gap in our experiences. If one or both of us are lacking tools to have a firm standing in the general reality of the situation, then that's when I think being overly sympathetic to someone's "truth" can be problematic and enabling. Just my opinion, though. I appreciate again your comment. Insightful for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jul 11, 2023 1:00:16 GMT
What do you think her place was with reaching out to me after ending the relationship? Did that respect my boundaries? Did you tell her you wanted no contact? Did you block her from being able to contact you? This is an honest question as to whether you made it clear to her you wanted no contact at all from her…because if that were the case, then yes…she was not honoring your boundaries…but if you had not specifically stated that or if you replied to her, knowing it would cause a continuation in the discussion….then no…I don’t agree she dishonored your boundaries. And this would be an important talking point with your therapist….making your boundaries known in respectful ways. When my last boyfriend broke up with me, I both told him and texted him that I needed time to heal and that I needed to go no contact. That when I was ready, I would reach out and we could potentially resume communication. There is no mind reading in relationships….intentions must be stated and if not honored, restated. But I don’t see where you asked her to not contact you. Yes, in my letter to her I did state that I would prefer if we remained out of contact. By that time I had educated myself on the issues, realized our incompatibilities, and knew that her coming back into my life would be a set-back. That is why I felt the need to be direct with my boundaries and my feelings in my text to her. I did not see anything in what you shared that indicated that in a respectful way that you wanted to remain no contact…..and why would you decide to do a truth bomb knowing that she would respond…it was like you were baiting her. |
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 11, 2023 1:06:19 GMT
Yes, in my letter to her I did state that I would prefer if we remained out of contact. By that time I had educated myself on the issues, realized our incompatibilities, and knew that her coming back into my life would be a set-back. That is why I felt the need to be direct with my boundaries and my feelings in my text to her. I did not see anything in what you shared that indicated that in a respectful way that you wanted to remain no contact…..and why would you decide to do a truth bomb knowing that she would respond…it was like you were baiting her. What you read on the first page is my text to her from last week. The letter I had sent to her was back in March after she deactivated. I didn't clarify this, my apologies. For background, she had sent a text to me a few weeks after deactivating stating she was mailing me something (a wristband). Rather than confirm receipt of her package via text, I returned a short letter wishing her well, etc., with respect to our time together. Towards the end of the letter I told her that I wished for she and I to remain out of contact with respect to each of our journeys. I didn't know she would respond. I truthfully didn't even want her to reach out in the first place and, at the time, didn't care how she would respond. I was being honest and direct, in my eyes. Her response however, was unexpected. I didn't expect her to seemingly rewrite the narrative and attack me. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jul 11, 2023 1:11:45 GMT
I did not see anything in what you shared that indicated that in a respectful way that you wanted to remain no contact…..and why would you decide to do a truth bomb knowing that she would respond…it was like you were baiting her. What you read on the first page is my text to her from last week. The letter I had sent to her was back in March after she deactivated. I didn't clarify this, my apologies. For background, she had sent a text to me a few weeks after deactivating stating she was mailing me something (a wristband). Rather than confirm receipt of her package via text, I returned a short letter wishing her well, etc., with respect to our time together. Towards the end of the letter I told her that I wished for she and I to remain out of contact with respect to each of our journeys. I didn't know she would respond. I truthfully didn't even want her to reach out in the first place and, at the time, didn't care how she would respond. I was being honest and direct, in my eyes. Her response however, was unexpected. I didn't expect her to seemingly rewrite the narrative and attack me. Again…you shared your truth, she shared hers….that is the narrative she is going to move forward with…yours is the narrative you will move forward with…to @kirroks earlier post…you have no authority over her narrative and she has no authority over yours…but both will exist whether you believe yours to be right and hers to be wrong. I still agree with your therapist…it would have been better had you simply not responded. |
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 11, 2023 1:18:34 GMT
What you read on the first page is my text to her from last week. The letter I had sent to her was back in March after she deactivated. I didn't clarify this, my apologies. For background, she had sent a text to me a few weeks after deactivating stating she was mailing me something (a wristband). Rather than confirm receipt of her package via text, I returned a short letter wishing her well, etc., with respect to our time together. Towards the end of the letter I told her that I wished for she and I to remain out of contact with respect to each of our journeys. I didn't know she would respond. I truthfully didn't even want her to reach out in the first place and, at the time, didn't care how she would respond. I was being honest and direct, in my eyes. Her response however, was unexpected. I didn't expect her to seemingly rewrite the narrative and attack me. Again…you shared your truth, she shared hers….that is the narrative she is going to move forward with…yours is the narrative you will move forward with…to @kirroks earlier post…you have no authority over her narrative and she has no authority over yours…but both will exist whether you believe yours to be right and hers to be wrong. I still agree with your therapist…it would have been better had you simply not responded. I respectfully disagree with the multiple truth sentiment again. Rather than get caught up in a back-and-forth I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Correct, I shouldn't have. Worth documenting for future readers of this forum, however. When an unaware FA deactivates - move on and never look back. Focus on moving forward. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jul 11, 2023 1:29:15 GMT
Again…you shared your truth, she shared hers….that is the narrative she is going to move forward with…yours is the narrative you will move forward with…to @kirroks earlier post…you have no authority over her narrative and she has no authority over yours…but both will exist whether you believe yours to be right and hers to be wrong. I still agree with your therapist…it would have been better had you simply not responded. I respectfully disagree with the multiple truth sentiment again. Rather than get caught up in a back-and-forth I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Correct, I shouldn't have. Worth documenting for future readers of this forum, however. When an unaware FA deactivates - move on and never look back. Focus on moving forward. It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree…because when she shares information with others…they will likely believe her…which is why it truly is best to maintain no contact when both people have attachment wounding to address. |
|
|
|
Post by aeropro on Jul 11, 2023 1:41:34 GMT
I respectfully disagree with the multiple truth sentiment again. Rather than get caught up in a back-and-forth I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Correct, I shouldn't have. Worth documenting for future readers of this forum, however. When an unaware FA deactivates - move on and never look back. Focus on moving forward. It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree…because when she shares information with others…they will likely believe her…which is why it truly is best to maintain no contact when both people have attachment wounding to address. If she wanted to tell them the world was flat, that the sun was made out of cheese, etc. Whatever "her truth" may be to justify her feelings and position. It's their prerogative to believe her or not using their own rationale. Both people having wounding isn't the issue. It's the awareness and willingness to confront and overcome the wounding that is. In my case, only one of us was willing to do so. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jul 11, 2023 2:27:23 GMT
It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree…because when she shares information with others…they will likely believe her…which is why it truly is best to maintain no contact when both people have attachment wounding to address. If she wanted to tell them the world was flat, that the sun was made out of cheese, etc. Whatever "her truth" may be to justify her feelings and position. It's their prerogative to believe her or not using their own rationale. Both people having wounding isn't the issue. It's the awareness and willingness to confront and overcome the wounding that is. In my case, only one of us was willing to do so. Could that perspective that there is only 1 true truth be part of your wounding versus part of your awareness? Because many aware members of this community have responded and no one has shared in that perspective that there is only one real truth and many of us are in therapy, some have even achieved earning secure. I think instead of closing down the discussion, perhaps this could be discussed a bit more in your therapy. |
|
