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Post by madamebovary on Feb 24, 2018 14:15:02 GMT
i.pinimg.com/736x/6c/11/a3/6c11a3ffc00c305d93d4fcea23d3d824--madmen-joan-holloway.jpgI couldn’t post the image so I had to post the link, but I’ve been rewatching Mad Men and Joan said something that made me think of the way several of my avoidant exes have ended things with me (because of course, as an AP, I’ve had several avoidant relationships of all kinds... familial, romantic and friendships). The quote is about men, but I think maybe it could go for all avoidant types, of any gender. The quote is “Men don’t take the time to end things, they ignore you until you insist on a declaration of hate.” This is basically how I felt my DA ex ended things with me. Ignore-distance-ignore-distance-avoid having a real conversation and the problem will just go away! And I eventually did but I was *really f*cking confused and ANGRY* (yes, APs get angry, especially when they’re being told one thing but their partners actions are speaking volumes of something else). Anyway... is this typical of how avoidants, I guess DAs in particular, end relationships? If you are AP and have been with an avoidant... is this how your relationship ended? Not with a bang but with a “what the hell is even happening?” because you’re just being ignored until you realize it’s over?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 15:44:00 GMT
i.pinimg.com/736x/6c/11/a3/6c11a3ffc00c305d93d4fcea23d3d824--madmen-joan-holloway.jpgI couldn’t post the image so I had to post the link, but I’ve been rewatching Mad Men and Joan said something that made me think of the way several of my avoidant exes have ended things with me (because of course, as an AP, I’ve had several avoidant relationships of all kinds... familial, romantic and friendships). The quote is about men, but I think maybe it could go for all avoidant types, of any gender. The quote is “Men don’t take the time to end things, they ignore you until you insist on a declaration of hate.” This is basically how I felt my DA ex ended things with me. Ignore-distance-ignore-distance-avoid having a real conversation and the problem will just go away! And I eventually did but I was *really f*cking confused and ANGRY* (yes, APs get angry, especially when they’re being told one thing but their partners actions are speaking volumes of something else). Anyway... is this typical of how avoidants, I guess DAs in particular, end relationships? If you are AP and have been with an avoidant... is this how your relationship ended? Not with a bang but with a “what the hell is even happening?” because you’re just being ignored until you realize it’s over? I am so sorry this has happened to you. I am sure it's very unsettling. I did not go to the link, but I don't think it's a man thing (I have dated AP men), so my experience is different with men. I do think it's common with DAs. I am DA and I am able to "dismiss" people. I guess it's a way to detach. Some people use anger to detach, I use indifference. It's also a way to avoid conflict. I have gotten much better at using words when ending things, but yes, my past is littered with inappropriate endings.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 16:46:22 GMT
i DELETE people mentally if they have been toxic to me, just my way of knowing when to fold. otherwise i negotiate understandings and a farewell that acknowledges value of the relationship and person but also incompatibility.
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lucy
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Post by lucy on Feb 24, 2018 22:46:16 GMT
Oh Madame, Haha, Our chats just made me think of my very first boyfriend (a bad start and still going shit). So I was about 12, and we dated for 6weeks in the school holidays. Never kissed, only saw him once in whole holiday. One could say he was my first DA. Lol. Anyway once school restarted he totally ignored me for the first week. I then called his parents house totally confused and asked if we are over. He said yes. Thats more or less how most of the other DAs have dumped me too. Different age, name, relationship lengh, but pretty much the same...just no contact and then when you go over and ask you get told its over. Same as I am wondering/presuming its over once again with me and my guy now. Grow some balls! Show some respect!
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Post by leavethelighton on Feb 26, 2018 0:58:27 GMT
I was thinking about this today actually--that some people don't have the balls/ovaries to just admit they are done. It would be easier if they could. Of course even when the person hasn't put in any effort for years, the AP side of me is then like "Do they actually know they're done? Maybe they're not done and they will return some day!" and so on.
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Post by mrob on Feb 26, 2018 2:37:57 GMT
If it was only about balls and respect, this forum wouldn’t need to exist. O
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Post by serene13 on Feb 26, 2018 4:35:40 GMT
i DELETE people mentally if they have been toxic to me, just my way of knowing when to fold. otherwise i negotiate understandings and a farewell that acknowledges value of the relationship and person but also incompatibility. tgat - this is what happened with the DA/FA (combo I think) I knew and cared about. After a discussion that seemed normal for us in the beginning but I realize now the change - he let me know that he had deleted all info on me and could not initiate contact. I believe he also blocked me from doing so but I'm not sure. When you do decide to delete someone mentally, do you ever go back in your mind and think of them, or is that totally it for you? Something like wiping a hard drive - not a trace? Not to be too intrusive, just wondering what your experience is with that .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 4:48:56 GMT
i DELETE people mentally if they have been toxic to me, just my way of knowing when to fold. otherwise i negotiate understandings and a farewell that acknowledges value of the relationship and person but also incompatibility. tgat - this is what happened with the DA/FA (combo I think) I knew and cared about. After a discussion that seemed normal for us in the beginning but I realize now the change - he let me know that he had deleted all info on me and could not initiate contact. I believe he also blocked me from doing so but I'm not sure. When you do decide to delete someone mentally, do you ever go back in your mind and think of them, or is that totally it for you? Something like wiping a hard drive - not a trace? Not to be too intrusive, just wondering what you experience is with that . i don't mind sharing! i push a mental delete button, it's just an automatic thing when i have to stop hurting from a toxic entanglement. i will think about them again, but i try to keep myself from rumination (once i have made a decision with clarity that it is best for my well being) by pressing my delete button. i do this as often as it takes- for instance, i wish things had worked out for my ex and i. i really do. it was unworkable and ended up being painful. i get reminded of him by many things. the street i drove to go to his house is the street i drive every day, etc. but i don't forget why i ended it. i keep that front and center. so, to spare myself the brain damage of ruminating, i press delete and turn my attention to something that helps me continue to accept and heal. i pressed delete a few times today. i miss him but i know the deal and i won't go back. so it's better to delete. i do actually delete all contact info as well. i don't hold on to what was, i have to create a new normal. i am no contact with him , so having a contact in my phone for him would just be a sad reminder of my NOPE. I delete all messages, because whatever was said lor unsaid led me to this point- and nowhere else, so i don't revisit it. it sounds cold but it's not. it's just rational to me. i have big feelings that i deal with , without holding on to him in any way. in time i will need my delete button less. i am not as avoidant as i used to be- i test right on the line with secure now. in the past i think i wouldn't need my delete button so much-
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Post by serene13 on Feb 26, 2018 5:01:36 GMT
tgat - this is what happened with the DA/FA (combo I think) I knew and cared about. After a discussion that seemed normal for us in the beginning but I realize now the change - he let me know that he had deleted all info on me and could not initiate contact. I believe he also blocked me from doing so but I'm not sure. When you do decide to delete someone mentally, do you ever go back in your mind and think of them, or is that totally it for you? Something like wiping a hard drive - not a trace? Not to be too intrusive, just wondering what you experience is with that . i don't mind sharing! i push a mental delete button, it's just an automatic thing when i have to stop hurting from a toxic entanglement. i will think about them again, but i try to keep myself from rumination (once i have made a decision with clarity that it is best for my well being) by pressing my delete button. i do this as often as it takes- for instance, i wish things had worked out for my ex and i. i really do. it was unworkable and ended up being painful. i get reminded of him by many things. the street i drove to go to his house is the street i drive every day, etc. but i don't forget why i ended it. i keep that front and center. so, to spare myself the brain damage of ruminating, i press delete and turn my attention to something that helps me continue to accept and heal. i pressed delete a few times today. i miss him but i know the deal and i won't go back. so it's better to delete. i do actually delete all contact info as well. i don't hold on to what was, i have to create a new normal. i am no contact with him , so having a contact in my phone for him would just be a sad reminder of my NOPE. I delete all messages, because whatever was said lor unsaid led me to this point- and nowhere else, so i don't revisit it. it sounds cold but it's not. it's just rational to me. i have big feelings that i deal with , without holding on to him in any way. in time i will need my delete button less. i am not as avoidant as i used to be- i test right on the line with secure now. in the past i think i wouldn't need my delete button so much- Thank you very much for that. I would guess that much of that would also apply for my friend, knowing him. The seemingly finality of it hurts, but I think I understand.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 5:12:47 GMT
@serene13, i know it hurts. even tho i know it's final for me, i hurt. my ex is DA (quite deeply avoidant ) and i know how he handles endings- the same way i do, but he hurts. he and i do differ in that he is a workaholic and he just amps up being busy tondistract. i think things also depend on the level of awareness and health also. but yes, it does have a sense of finality in the avoidant mind, and it is painful anyway.
maybe some avoidants aren't in touch with the pains i can't say? i known in the past my relationships were extremely abusive to me, and i left without any regret and it must have driven my exes nuts that i didn't even bat and eye or reach out or anything. i didn't know about attachment but i can look back and see it.
i remember one of my exes being shocked that i walked out one day and never contacted him again. it didn't even occur to me, because i hated him i guess. i don't think avoidants always hate their exes.
but he was an ass. he was violent. this time it's been rough because i am more aware and i loved him.
let's just keep healing ❤️
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Post by serene13 on Feb 26, 2018 5:32:37 GMT
@serene13, i know it hurts. even tho i know it's final for me, i hurt. my ex is DA (quite deeply avoidant ) and i know how he handles endings- the same way i do, but he hurts. he and i do differ in that he is a workaholic and he just amps up being busy tondistract. i think things also depend on the level of awareness and health also. but yes, it does have a sense of finality in the avoidant mind, and it is painful anyway. maybe some avoidants aren't in touch with the pains i can't say? i known in the past my relationships were extremely abusive to me, and i left without any regret and it must have driven my exes nuts that i didn't even bat and eye or reach out or anything. i didn't know about attachment but i can look back and see it. i remember one of my exes being shocked that i walked out one day and never contacted him again. it didn't even occur to me, because i hated him i guess. i don't think avoidants always hate their exes. but he was an ass. he was violent. this time it's been rough because i am more aware and i loved him. let's just keep healing ❤️ Yes we shall - but you confirming those feelings to me helps. My friend said he has never experienced a sense of loss, has much difficulty professing love, and believes he has never been in love, even though having been married. But I know what I felt and what he exhibited - but if it cannot be confirmed then it just feels like conjecture. I do believe he misses me but I also believe he does as you do and just presses delete.
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Post by madamebovary on Feb 26, 2018 6:37:40 GMT
I was thinking about this today actually--that some people don't have the balls/ovaries to just admit they are done. It would be easier if they could. Of course even when the person hasn't put in any effort for years, the AP side of me is then like "Do they actually know they're done? Maybe they're not done and they will return some day!" and so on. All I want is for him to stop sending me mixed messages and just TELL ME if he’s done. Keeping me as a “friend” and then messaging “I miss you” but then when I text back, never texting again... I get that he probably enjoys keeping things very open-ended and he’s totally okay with ambivalent feelings, HOWEVER, as an AP (and other APs can tell me if this is true for them as well) any type of “in limbo” situation is murder on my emotions and anxiety. I used to ask him to please tell me *exactly* what he wanted (do you want to see me just twice a month?, text only once a day?) and he would always say “just do what comes natural to you”... but because my natural was much more intense than his, he would say one thing (Im not going anywhere, we are fine) and then pull away emotionally, which I could sense, and it would start the push/pull thing. Now with “the end” (which he has stil never said it’s over and ignores the question, but the fact that he barely speaks to me anymore is a pretty good indicator) it has been even weirder. He wanted to stay friends on social media, likes my stuff, but never initiates contact... but then is sweet when I do (when he decides to answer). It’s totally f*cking confusing to me and I really need him to just say “it’s over you need to move on” instead of sendIng weirdly mixed messages. I need that finality. I NEED that closing door for real closure. I would prefer he unfriend and block me if he’s never going to engage with me again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 11:42:53 GMT
So it's all up to him ? How about calming down your nervous system, get up on the balcony so that you can see what is going on and set some boundaries ? You can block him! You are the one who allows him to treat you like that! You are so much more than a victim! absolutely. and madamebovary , being AP is no excuse to be powerless. you can say you need closure but you won't get it from him. you will suffer without closure until you make your own decisions. i am DA and i just had to do that with my ex. you are the captain of your own ship and right now you are steering straight into the storm instead of averting it. it would mean goodbye, a final goodbye, No Contact, and you making an mature, self respecting choice. if you give someone else all the power you will be exploited until you decide enough is enough. this is on you, to make your own decisions. As an adult, you are personally responsible for relationships you engage in, and you choose to engage with this man. you don't get to blame him- well, you can in your mind but ultimately, it's on you to choose to engage or not. blaming will keep you stuck but that's your right, and i support your right to decide to stay involved with him on this level. it seems to make you miserable and i question why you do that to yourself so i'm just offering a more realistic perspective on personal choice is all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 12:26:26 GMT
If it was only about balls and respect, this forum wouldn’t need to exist. O it's really crazy to me how the AP side insists that it is up to the DA to make a final full stop ending when they are unwilling and unable to do it themselves. somehow they get a free pass to keep engaging and blaming and not taking responsibility? what about growing some ovaries and kicking it to the curb? no, they continue to engage and get angry their partner hasn't slammed the door. its about more than balls and respect, it is about attachment injury but the only way out for either side is awareness and personal responsibility . self respect is a thing, too. if someone doesn't respect you, and you allow it, it's a mirror of your self respect and relief comes when you improve that. it's all an inside job! SIDE NOTE: AP does not want it to be over and have spent the entire relationship resisting an ending. If the partner were to end it and go no contact, then AP abandonment would be triggered. We have all seen how that plays out on this forum. It's not pretty. The key to AP healing lies within the AP themselves, but they look to an external source as the determining factor. When you choose an emotionally unavailable partner to run the show, you get what you get. not trying to slam anyone but neither am i co-signing any attachment type, BS blame shifting. It does not honor reality to overlook the well established , researched, observable patterns of the AP/ DA dance.
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Post by mrob on Feb 26, 2018 13:32:35 GMT
To demonstrate the circle in its entirety, I reconnected with my last “not a relationship” yesterday. I’ve been missing her recently. Maybe that’s how the cycle goes. I asked if we could be friends. She told me that friends is all we can be because she can’t handle the emotion. Not because she doesn’t love me, but the emotion. Looking at this forum, I can’t say I blame her. She has handled this part as a secure person would. Grew some..... as some here have said.
Does I hurt that I’ll never be able to snuggle into her shoulder? Like you wouldn’t believe. I’d rather discuss politics and architecture and other stuff with her than not though. It’s going to be hard, this. I don’t do friendships well at all. Guess it’s time to grow some knackers myself!
Thanks everyone for such a supportive community.
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