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Mar 20, 2018 14:23:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 14:23:16 GMT
I know. It's really hard because for a year, it wasn't like this. It was like a "normal" relationship. Then it was a 180. It's like "I want you, but only on my terms." wow! that, i can't understand. i know the template for a "normal" relationship, and i could not accomplish it. it's been difficult to form the connection i have now, with my partner, and with my circle of friends and they are all completely separate. maybe an FA has the ability to be more "couple-y"? ive never experienced it like that. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Mar 21, 2018 23:35:41 GMT
Although I agree that people can have different/diverging needs, and the plant metaphor is awesome, I also think in any functional relationship people can strive to behave in ways to meet their partner's needs even if it isn't their natural default way of being. For example, a DA partner can work to meet their commitments/ to do what they said they'd do (even if they don't understand why you value or need that), and an AP partner can work to be okay with someone needing days before they're willing to to talk about certain things (Even if their inclination is to want to talk immediately), etc.
Any healthy relationship requires give and take. I think ultimately that's what love is. It isn't "I'm unwilling to try to help you get what you value because I'm DA/AP/whatever."
In that sense, I'm not sure the problem here is really just about attachment style.
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Mar 22, 2018 0:12:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 0:12:38 GMT
Although I agree that people can have different/diverging needs, and the plant metaphor is awesome, I also think in any functional relationship people can strive to behave in ways to meet their partner's needs even if it isn't their natural default way of being. For example, a DA partner can work to meet their commitments/ to do what they said they'd do (even if they don't understand why you value or need that), and an AP partner can work to be okay with someone needing days before they're willing to to talk about certain things (Even if their inclination is to want to talk immediately), etc. Any healthy relationship requires give and take. I think ultimately that's what love is. It isn't "I'm unwilling to try to help you get what you value because I'm DA/AP/whatever." In that sense, I'm not sure the problem here is really just about attachment style. i totally agree. it depends on willingness and capacity on both sides. even with my partner and i having similar needs, we both have had to improve our avoidant behaviors. so we still have had dysfunction that drove us apart... and had to work at compromise to get back together. |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 22, 2018 3:32:10 GMT
Nic- that is my experience too and it's baffling to me when she tells me she loves me. I wonder if knowing what we know about attachment styles makes us enable and accept things we wouldn't normally accept because we are trying to accommodate for their needs (before ours) since we think we understand them. But do our partners understand our needs and try to accommodate and meet somewhere in the middle? |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 22, 2018 3:55:04 GMT
oh good, nic ! i didn't want to hurt you with what i said. and in typical avoidant fashion, i didn't include what underlies these ways of mine. i am aware of the pain and alienation and rejection i felt as a scapegoat in a very abusive and oppressive family. i didn't feel overlooked, i felt targeted. i was blamed for everything and totally obliterated. so i feel a sense of belonging and child like happiness when i have my adventures and friends. i am proud when i buy new gear for a hobby, i didn't have things i loved growing up . i was always making do. alone! i learned to love my imagination. so now i have control of what i do and i feel free and happy. my friends celebrate my life with me. this is nothing against a person who needs more inclusion. i understand that also! my life is very compartmentalized and it confuses even me, it's so natural and i still am figuring out why. so finding a partner that fits me, with my quirks, has been really precious. i would make another partner very unhappy, just by being the me i need to be. that's all. it doesn't make me right and someone else wrong in my eyes. but it's been healing to me to be free. like, so healing i often stop and think "wow, i am living my dream." my partner is also very precious to me. the dynamic with him is special and unique among my relationships. he is irreplacable. i get nervous about how much i want and need him but i try to just push through that and be brave and enjoy the day by day experience i get to share with him in this life. if i had to lose anyone, between my friends and him. i would miss him the most. that's true. it's hard even to say it because it doesn't seem fair to my friends who love me too. but it's different. Juniper you sound like you are in a really good place surrounded by people that add a lot of happiness to your life. Its very good to hear that you've managed to come to this despite your painful past. Thanks for sharing! |
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Mar 22, 2018 4:02:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 4:02:54 GMT
thank you nic. I am in a good place and i am so thankful. It's been very dark at times and that's an understatement. I was just talking with a friend today about stuff and she said she sees a "Springtime" in my heart.  That really touched me and i agree! Healing is possible for all of us, i really think so. If you recognize the need for it! |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 22, 2018 4:18:38 GMT
thank you nic. I am in a good place and i am so thankful. It's been very dark at times and that's an understatement. I was just talking with a friend today about stuff and she said she sees a "Springtime" in my heart. That really touched me and i agree! Healing is possible for all of us, i really think so. If you recognize the need for it! ❤ |
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Mar 22, 2018 17:08:55 GMT
Post by bedlam71 on Mar 22, 2018 17:08:55 GMT
I agree that their has to be will ingness and capacity. My person has spent most of her 51 years avoiding emotions. She has a history of sexua l trauma and her family is very conflict avoidant. Then I come into her life with my emotions and also being a therapist, it is overwhelming for her. It is painful for anyone to deal with negative emotions, but for her, i imagine the intensity is on a different level. I guess I should feel flattered that she avoids me because it means she is sensitive to me and cares about what i think and feel, huh?
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Mar 22, 2018 17:31:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 17:31:53 GMT
I agree that their has to be will ingness and capacity. My person has spent most of her 51 years avoiding emotions. She has a history of sexua l trauma and her family is very conflict avoidant. Then I come into her life with my emotions and also being a therapist, it is overwhelming for her. It is painful for anyone to deal with negative emotions, but for her, i imagine the intensity is on a different level. I guess I should feel flattered that she avoids me because it means she is sensitive to me and cares about what i think and feel, huh? i posted a thread on cognitive dissonance this morning and that is what comes to mind when I read this. Have you looked into that thinking as possibly destructive to you and a way to cope with intolerable behavior from your partner? |
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Mar 22, 2018 19:47:51 GMT
Post by bedlam71 on Mar 22, 2018 19:47:51 GMT
Well I am no longer tolerating it as we are no longer together, but I don't ordinarily think like that. I tend to think that she is indifferent or doesn't care about my existence.
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Mar 22, 2018 19:56:14 GMT
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Post by bedlam71 on Mar 22, 2018 19:56:14 GMT
My cognitive dissonance has been around the "I love you", but can't show it consistently. The intermittent reinforcement is very powerful. That is why gambling addiction is so hard to treat.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:32:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 20:32:58 GMT
Well I am no longer tolerating it as we are no longer together, but I don't ordinarily think like that. I tend to think that she is indifferent or doesn't care about my existence. oh i'm sorry bedlam71 , i thought you were together and working on things . it's so painful to process post breakup  |
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Mar 23, 2018 21:14:48 GMT
Post by bedlam71 on Mar 23, 2018 21:14:48 GMT
It does suck, juniper. I thought we were working on us, but when she cancelled plans and wanted to make plans for 2 weeks later, it really hit me that I can't count on her to follow through. That something will always come up. So when I asked her about this, she did her defensive thing, shut down, blamed me for asking the question, etc. I asked her why it doesn't bother her to break promises with me especially since she likes to present as this person with integrity(to everyone else but me). So that was that. She was "done." I decided after that that it is ridiculous that i cannot ask anything without it turning to this. Then I decided it was pointless to keep trying to hold onto someone that doesn't value and respect me enough to keep their word. I know she avoidant, has intimacy issues, commitment issues, but I'm not sure how much is really that vs. she really doesn't care. I'm also tired of the mixed messages that again, are apparently me reading too much into. We spent 8 hours, that's right 8 hours, about 6 weeks ago at starbucks talking about each others point of view and why we do what we do/did in our relationship. She asked "how do we break this cycle?" She said "I feel like we will be in a relationship again. Maybe. Maybe not." So apparently I was having some wishful thinking because all it meant to her was her being a friend to me because I wanted to talk about things(this is what she later said as to why she talked for 8 hours). I personally can't see myself talking to a friend that was my ex for 8 hours about our relationship when we were committed.
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Mar 23, 2018 21:40:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 21:40:17 GMT
It does suck, juniper. I thought we were working on us, but when she cancelled plans and wanted to make plans for 2 weeks later, it really hit me that I can't count on her to follow through. That something will always come up. So when I asked her about this, she did her defensive thing, shut down, blamed me for asking the question, etc. I asked her why it doesn't bother her to break promises with me especially since she likes to present as this person with integrity(to everyone else but me). So that was that. She was "done." I decided after that that it is ridiculous that i cannot ask anything without it turning to this. Then I decided it was pointless to keep trying to hold onto someone that doesn't value and respect me enough to keep their word. I know she avoidant, has intimacy issues, commitment issues, but I'm not sure how much is really that vs. she really doesn't care. I'm also tired of the mixed messages that again, are apparently me reading too much into. We spent 8 hours, that's right 8 hours, about 6 weeks ago at starbucks talking about each others point of view and why we do what we do/did in our relationship. She asked "how do we break this cycle?" She said "I feel like we will be in a relationship again. Maybe. Maybe not." So apparently I was having some wishful thinking because all it meant to her was her being a friend to me because I wanted to talk about things(this is what she later said as to why she talked for 8 hours). I personally can't see myself talking to a friend that was my ex for 8 hours about our relationship when we were committed. ouch. i am so sorry. it does sound like she was not able ,for whatever reason, to show up for you in a way that demonstrated to you that you are valued, cherished, and understood. I think it's very difficult to confront the reality of someone else's inability to love us the way we want and need to be loved. Even as an avoidant with vastly different needs than some people, i recognize when someone cares about my feelings. It feels good to know that when we are struggling and hurting, someone we care about can get outside of themselves and help us. It makes us feel valued and appreciated, it causes us to be able to relax and soften around difficulty because we know we have support to handle it. Even as an avoidant i value these things, believe me. It just looks different. I need help with my inability to be vulnerable sometimes, and having help with that from other people has meant the world to me. It told me, that i matter! Dented little me, matters a lot. So, i know you are really really hurting. I just want to say that. I think there is nothing like the feeling, of not mattering. All i can do is recognize your pain, i know it's not much. But i do see it and i know it's very hard to resolve. I hope that life sends you some angels and fortuitous connections that can help you heal. That has happened for me before. Help from nowhere that i didn't expect or even know how to look for. |
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joan
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Mar 27, 2018 4:51:35 GMT
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Post by joan on Mar 27, 2018 4:51:35 GMT
Juniper It sounds like you know exactly what I'm talking about. So here is the other side of the coin. Thanks for listening in advance. We actually do enjoy doing the same things. We just do them with other people. It drives me crazy im not gonna lie. Not Because he does stuff on his own, because there is not an open invitation to join and because there is no time saved for me so its either join them or dont hang out at all. But I have to invite myself to join..and i may get turned down and i may not. The difference with him and I...if I was going with a group of guys and girls to do something i know he likes my partner would have an open invitation. I don't care if he goes or not but hes welcome to do so if he chooses. I do not have that option if the situation as switched. He purposely keeps this unnecessary boundary. He wouldn't know this because hes never tried but if I had the option to be included in more I wouldn't want to go every time. I'm really content with seeing him once or twice a week to be honest. Its the unwritten rules that just feel unnatural and unkind and get under my skin. Just from my point of view leaving someone out that you care about is not showing them love. I try to make my partner know he is special to me and not ranked below my friends. Mind you, I totally get it if comfort lines are crossed and someone clings and wants to be around all the time but test the waters a little.. I dont like to be up under someone all the time either. Rant over... I don't even know why I said all that just to vent I guess. It helps me to get the DA viewpoint so maybe its helpful the other way around too. Have a great day! ok, i'm sorry that you're hurting but i was only trying to answer the OP's question and your quote was involved, i was answering the question originally posed. i'm sorry i quoted and addressed you, i won't do that again so you don't feel rebutted. Your position is completely valid, just sharing the answer to Bedlams inquiry. my apologies! Whoa it sounded exactly like what I've been dealing with in regards to the DA I'm with. He'll go to the movies about once a month with a group of guy friends who may or may not bring their girlfriends or wives. He's never invited me. He'll say you don't like Marvel movies or don't worry the majority of the people there were nerdy, sweaty guys. I have no problem with him going to the movies with his friends, but it would be nice if he gave me the opportunity to reject his invitation once in a while. Or even went to see a movie just with me once a while. Sometimes it's hard to hang onto the Avoidant theory, and not take it personally. I've never been in a situation like this either, so I completely understand how confused you are. I keep telling myself at some point I'll get sick of feeling excluded, and in general like crap and that'll be it. It's too uncomfortable for me personally so even if I reached a more secure sense of myself I doubt I'd deal with it any longer. Maybe other avoidants can, and a lot of times I wished I was one myself with him, but what I ultimately want is to let this go. Who we are, whatever that is, DA or AP we operate on two completely different levels, and accepting that it won't ever feel comfortable with each other and moving on is the ultimate goal, for me at least. |
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