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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 14:03:41 GMT
joan, it's good to know what kind of relationship you would like and to be able to clearly identify things that make you unhappy. It's true that the needs of an Ap and DA are very different. Underlying these dynamics are deep wounds on each side. From your posts, i gather that you struggle with the AP tendency to want to earn change from your DA partner, but that's a trap that only limits you and your potential to find the satisfying relationship you seek. Both parties in such a pairing would need to be actively aware and working to improve their own ability to show up in a healthy way for each other. Even after much work is done to become more emotionally available (on both sides- neither is emotionally available while operating in their attachment pattern. Lots of emotion does not spell emotional availability, nor does emotional need- availability is another matter entirely) - the differences in preferences and priorities and lifestyles will likely remain. So, in order to avoid selecting and trying to change a DA partner, i encourage you to examine your own attachment style and how to become more secure so that you can begin a relationship with your needs and boundaries well identified. Choosing a partner who is compatible in the first place and meets you where you are from the beginning would be a much better option. The experience of many people and lots of research indicates that growing healthier and more secure is possible with work on one's own emotional injuries (childhood, and beyond) . This work doesn't involve seeking change in a partner though. I think it's most common that growing healthier in yourself leads to empowered decisions and oftentimes spells the end of the Ap/Da relationship if it has no foundation in awareness to begin with. There is a possibility of working to become more secure and remain in the relationship without endangering your own emotional well being, but that depends completely on the two individuals involved and where each is at on the "spectrum" - and so many other factors. and given the extreme differences in the lifestyles of these styles, i'm pretty sure it would involve some "settling" for less than what you really want. I advocate looking inward to prioritize one's own well being and working toward that. It's deep work. Jeb's website has enlightening articles explaining the deep dysfunction of the individual types. It's a good starting point. I've never seen a person be able to elicit change in their partner for a happily ever after. I've seen it cause a lot of heartache over and over again 
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Post by mrcamper on Apr 3, 2018 12:48:20 GMT
Now this is a really good thread. Really hitting the heart of the matter. I'm a guy my ex is a DA with some type of trauma apparently.
We started out very close but kids and layoffs triggered something and she changed. Like a light switch. It then became rejection, blaming me, twisting facts, 5 counselors, eye rolling, scoffing, broken dates (again, somehow my fault).
How can your number 1 person watch you fall apart and just ignore you?
You break down crying and they stand there and ask why are you crying? Then they walk away.
Gaslighting.
You stand up to it and try to set boundaries and get answers and they walk away, only to return with a gun in their hands.
The book ATTACHED has been the best for me to understand all of this.
Were not together, and in the divorce she tried to destroy me, but it's over. And still hurts so bad.
I don't have to endlessly ask why why why. I can work on me. My parents and childhood, my strengths, and where I want to be now. I'm embracing the secure. I am ok. I deserve to be loved and to love someone. It'll happen one day.
Thank God I'm free.
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Post by mrcamper on Apr 3, 2018 13:00:32 GMT
I will add that if youre in a relationship like this.... A roller coaster...confused and asking yourself what is going on. Realize YOU have to pull back. Get in charge of yourself! Pull away and find other avenues because that person will not and can not change. You have to come to this realization and decide if you can live with it or not.
Wanting a close and caring relationship is a good thing. Not a fault!
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Apr 3, 2018 16:54:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 16:54:56 GMT
Now this is a really good thread. Really hitting the heart of the matter. I'm a guy my ex is a DA with some type of trauma apparently. We started out very close but kids and layoffs triggered something and she changed. Like a light switch. It then became rejection, blaming me, twisting facts, 5 counselors, eye rolling, scoffing, broken dates (again, somehow my fault). How can your number 1 person watch you fall apart and just ignore you? You break down crying and they stand there and ask why are you crying? Then they walk away. Gaslighting. You stand up to it and try to set boundaries and get answers and they walk away, only to return with a gun in their hands. The book ATTACHED has been the best for me to understand all of this. Were not together, and in the divorce she tried to destroy me, but it's over. And still hurts so bad. I don't have to endlessly ask why why why. I can work on me. My parents and childhood, my strengths, and where I want to be now. I'm embracing the secure. I am ok. I deserve to be loved and to love someone. It'll happen one day. Thank God I'm free. how horrible that you endured that! I have experienced extreme violence from an AP partner, the insecure attachment can turn dangerous in either side especially with comorbid conditions. I remember the day i realized that he was a parrot of my mother. they said the EXACT same things to me. The lightbulb went on. I was out of there and working on PTSD then inner child stuff lickety split. I'm glad you made it out alive, and are healing to thrive! |
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Apr 3, 2018 18:22:52 GMT
Post by bedlam71 on Apr 3, 2018 18:22:52 GMT
I will add that if youre in a relationship like this.... A roller coaster...confused and asking yourself what is going on. Realize YOU have to pull back. Get in charge of yourself! Pull away and find other avenues because that person will not and can not change. You have to come to this realization and decide if you can live with it or not. Wanting a close and caring relationship is a good thing. Not a fault! I think it can be changed, but they have to be willing to do the work and manage emotions in a different way. It is pretty ingrained. We create ruts in our neural pathways that keep us on the same path. If we veer just a little, we can actually change behaviors and create new pathways. It is natural for me to experience my emotions. For those who have spent their lives avoiding and then they face them, I would imagine is like open heart surgery without anesthesia. We all instinctively try to get away from suffering, but we have to learn effective ways to deal with it. unfortunately, avoidance is not effective. It ALWAYS comes out one way or another. My ex has a hx of sexual trauma, her family doesn't really deal with negative emotions(it's all pretty superficial) and they are all conflict avoidant. My ex has been struggling with IBS(Vomiting, diarrhea) for over 25 years and nobody could find a reason why. I explained to her that her emotions are expressed in the form of puking and shitting. She doesn't want to do anything about it though. Yes...we have to be responsible for our own emotions and reactions. Whenever we argue, we are wanting the other person to do something differently to take away our suffering. While it would be nice to have a partner do that, it is ultimately on us. I still think it's shitty though when you stand there crying or you are having a shitty day, and they just stand there callously. I don't understand how you can love someone and your instinct is hostility vs. compassion. |
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Apr 3, 2018 18:28:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 18:28:40 GMT
bedlam71 , i think it's because when we are insecure and in conflict and triggered, things can feel like an attack and hostility is a common reaction to that.
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Apr 3, 2018 18:36:23 GMT
Post by bedlam71 on Apr 3, 2018 18:36:23 GMT
bedlam71 , i think it's because when we are insecure and in conflict and triggered, things can feel like an attack and hostility is a common reaction to that. That makes total sense! My ex would say she felt like I was attacking her and I wasn't. I think the automatic interpretation is when I express any negative emotions that I am attacking and blaming and expecting her to do differently. It's simply an expression of emotions, not in a robotic way and not in an extreme way. The intent is also not to blame, but rather get clarification on something or have a dialogue about how to problem solve an issue. My ex is a captain at a prison. She can deal with inmates and staff saying and doing all kinds of things to her. With me, she can't handle anything and i'm really coming from a place of love. |
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Apr 3, 2018 18:43:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 18:43:56 GMT
bedlam71 , i think it's because when we are insecure and in conflict and triggered, things can feel like an attack and hostility is a common reaction to that. That makes total sense! My ex would say she felt like I was attacking her and I wasn't. I think the automatic interpretation is when I express any negative emotions that I am attacking and blaming and expecting her to do differently. It's simply an expression of emotions, not in a robotic way and not in an extreme way. The intent is also not to blame, but rather get clarification on something or have a dialogue about how to problem solve an issue. My ex is a captain at a prison. She can deal with inmates and staff saying and doing all kinds of things to her. With me, she can't handle anything and i'm really coming from a place of love. it's a delicate thing, to be able to approach someone who is defending deep rooted shame. something you are saying is touching a deep wound, one that she couldn't protect herself from originally. somehow, she is triggered. i'd bet money on it. someone said something to her and erased her at some point. prisoners are not touching those historical wounds the way you are. it happens in close relationships. |
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Apr 3, 2018 19:06:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 19:06:51 GMT
and yes it is like open heart surgery without anesthesia.
i learned that the reason i shut down was because it really was about surviving things that would be incredibly difficult for an adult, and i was a little girl. when things started coming through for me i didn't know if i could survive it. It was horrendous.
and so so sad.
unspeakable.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:38:42 GMT
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Post by bedlam71 on Apr 6, 2018 21:38:42 GMT
That makes total sense! My ex would say she felt like I was attacking her and I wasn't. I think the automatic interpretation is when I express any negative emotions that I am attacking and blaming and expecting her to do differently. It's simply an expression of emotions, not in a robotic way and not in an extreme way. The intent is also not to blame, but rather get clarification on something or have a dialogue about how to problem solve an issue. My ex is a captain at a prison. She can deal with inmates and staff saying and doing all kinds of things to her. With me, she can't handle anything and i'm really coming from a place of love. it's a delicate thing, to be able to approach someone who is defending deep rooted shame. something you are saying is touching a deep wound, one that she couldn't protect herself from originally. somehow, she is triggered. i'd bet money on it. someone said something to her and erased her at some point. prisoners are not touching those historical wounds the way you are. it happens in close relationships. Hey Juniper, would you mind elaborating on shame? My ex never indicated in any way she experiences shame, but I know there has to be because of undealt with sexual trauma. |
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Apr 6, 2018 21:48:39 GMT
Post by tnr9 on Apr 6, 2018 21:48:39 GMT
and yes it is like open heart surgery without anesthesia. i learned that the reason i shut down was because it really was about surviving things that would be incredibly difficult for an adult, and i was a little girl. when things started coming through for me i didn't know if i could survive it. It was horrendous. and so so sad. unspeakable. And I think it often isn't one thing but many...and the only way to the root is to be open to sit in the pain without pushing it away or projecting it elsewhere...but it requires that the person first acknowledges the original pain. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 21:56:31 GMT
it's a delicate thing, to be able to approach someone who is defending deep rooted shame. something you are saying is touching a deep wound, one that she couldn't protect herself from originally. somehow, she is triggered. i'd bet money on it. someone said something to her and erased her at some point. prisoners are not touching those historical wounds the way you are. it happens in close relationships. Hey Juniper, would you mind elaborating on shame? My ex never indicated in any way she experiences shame, but I know there has to be because of undealt with sexual trauma. Shame is a secret you don't go around telling until you know that you're safe, often after a lot of work i have found. If she has shame , she may not know it as such. i will elaborate with my thoughts in a bit; they may or may not apply to her but she's suffered tremendously obviously, a violation such as that is a huge betrayal of a woman's autonomy and sanctity of body. |
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Apr 6, 2018 22:04:03 GMT
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Post by bedlam71 on Apr 6, 2018 22:04:03 GMT
And oddly she has said to me a few times that I am the one person she has opened up to more than anyone.
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Apr 6, 2018 22:08:22 GMT
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Post by bedlam71 on Apr 6, 2018 22:08:22 GMT
Amblin, it's baffling and hurtful at the same time. What seems like an innocuous question or comment to me turns into me getting dumped and not talked to unless I reach out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 22:16:38 GMT
shame is heavy and deep, i wouldn't expect it to be shared with a partner before deep individual work actually. And, as a partner bedlam71 you are not in a therapeutic relationship with her , and don't have the objectivity required to provide adequate impartial security to her for therapeutic work. Sometimes it's helpful to begin with a simple definition, though, to provide a starting place to understand a deep emotion or mental state. That's the avoidant in me talking   |
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