flic
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Post by flic on Apr 16, 2018 14:40:11 GMT
juniper "keep contact, aware that you are activated in attachment, and notice what your powerlessness in your recovery feels like" @future "The best time to work on your "triggers" is when you are being triggered." These are next-level good pieces of advice. They make SO much sense to me. And juniper - i think your understanding of APs from a DA perspective is what makes it so so useful! Additionally, you're right juniper, I don't know what he is thinking. And I've been wrong about so many things I thought he would be doing (moving on, not missing me, wanting to cut me from his life, acting cold towards me) which in themselves have actually helped me realise how much my "AP guessing" (i love how you know that's what we do, and i did not know that's actually what we do) is just a reaction to my triggers. And to further cement your point @future, I was literally thinking an hour ago how the knowledge that i have been wrong about what i thought he was going to do/be like and that you can't really know what someone will do or how they will react, has made me feel like I'm learning and growing. I couldn't have learned this without being triggered. Your take on not doing NC actually alleviates so much anxiety. Yes it'll hurt, yes it'll make me ruminate and obsess, but if I can couple it with forward progression here (which sometimes feels like literally battling myself inside - tnr9 and yes, the little girl screams so loudly!) then surely there's more growth in that than anything else. Especially coupling it with awareness of how it triggers me. Also, I suggested in my last message to him we keep conversations to the present/future tense (because of all his won ruminating on the past and self-blame), and in his reply he said "yes i think keeping things in the future tense will make our conversations easier for us both" - which gives me hope for contact because at least he is open to having 'conversations' at all. I was actually having a bit of a freak-out earlier because I'm just so sure that the life I want to be living right now is the life back with him in the city we moved to (despite the fact I complained about it all the time when i was there, triggered by my fear he was going to leave me). And of course as much as I could just move back there (stalker much?) it really depends on him wanting me there. Which made me feel so powerless and started me back ruminating on how I'd screwed everything up. But then i had this thought - that it's ok for me to want that. It's ok for me to be sure that's what I want. I can't control what he wants, and I will have to accept it if he does not want me. But if i do end up going over there in a month, coming from a place of authenticity and autonomy of what I want from MY life, and if i can be really honest about not wanting to come from a place of fear anymore, about wanting to grow and support each other, then even if i put it all on the line and ask him to give it another chance, and he says no, maybe I'll be ok? Because if that's not what he wants, then it was never going to work anyway. And if I can be sure about what i want from my life, and he doesn't want to be part of it, then perhaps i can move on, acknowledge that i can still have what i want from my life, just not with him?
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flic
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Post by flic on Apr 16, 2018 14:49:13 GMT
yes, the no contact trigger seems so suicidal. it's just too much! i am DA and i hate not contact because it seems so unnatural to me, so reactive and fear based. i am not trying to be insensitive, but i see people torturing themselves needlessly with it. I agree..and yet...no contact is the pervasive advice that is out there....look up any "how to get over an ex" or even "how to win back an ex" and it stems from this break in communication. I did no contact for 30 days and I can't say it helped me one bit. I also don't like the standard "you can't be friends with an ex" line of advice either....it truly comes down to owning what it is we want and being accountable to our own actions. I do believe that healing can coexist with communication. Have you seen this blog:http://torontosnumber1datedoctor.com/blog/ It's still a 'get your ex back' blog which I'm against in theory, but her approach is so different. Partly because she is basically saying you can't always get your ex back, but if you want any hope that you might, manipulation is not the way to do it - authenticity, connection and healthy attachment is. She advocates for emotional connection over no contact. It was actually from reading her blog (after all those other awful NC ones) that I broke NC after a week and a half and sent my ex a message, and I really think it has contributed to why we are still in contact now. She is also a big advocate for staying friends with an ex. As I said, her approach just makes sense because, much like the advice on here, it's just about understanding where someone is at, not pushing them, not making them out to be a villain, treating them as a human who has human emotions and not being attached to the outcome if it doesn't go the way you want. Here's one of her posts on NC: torontosnumber1datedoctor.com/blog/no-contact-brought-back-my-ex-im-sticking-to-nc/ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 14:53:26 GMT
flic, it's good to let go of the relationship you HAD with him, it was toxic and two unconscious people acting out together. But you still have a relationship. it's a changing, growing, present tense relationship dealing with each other and reality AS IS. keep it real!  tomorrow will take care of itself. show up messy, show up confused, but show up honestly with him TODAY. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Don't assume ask. Don't jump to the end, open to beginnings. Be his friend. Be your friend. Let him be your friend. work on yourself. encourage him to take good care of himself. don't let fear keep you from moving forward with you, your life, your altered relationship. it will resolve itself. there is no hope EVER of reconciliation if you cannot be authentic and you might as well start today. you will love how it feels to eliminate the disparity between what you arrest thinking and what you are doing. let your own actions match your own words. be true to you. that's the only way you can begin to be the partner you want to be. are you a good partner? not if you can't be a good friend. and only if you are taking care of yourself and showing up authentically. a day at a time! keep posting with us and showing up honestly in the present with him!
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 16, 2018 16:31:34 GMT
I agree..and yet...no contact is the pervasive advice that is out there....look up any "how to get over an ex" or even "how to win back an ex" and it stems from this break in communication. I did no contact for 30 days and I can't say it helped me one bit. I also don't like the standard "you can't be friends with an ex" line of advice either....it truly comes down to owning what it is we want and being accountable to our own actions. I do believe that healing can coexist with communication. Have you seen this blog:http://torontosnumber1datedoctor.com/blog/ It's still a 'get your ex back' blog which I'm against in theory, but her approach is so different. Partly because she is basically saying you can't always get your ex back, but if you want any hope that you might, manipulation is not the way to do it - authenticity, connection and healthy attachment is. She advocates for emotional connection over no contact. It was actually from reading her blog (after all those other awful NC ones) that I broke NC after a week and a half and sent my ex a message, and I really think it has contributed to why we are still in contact now. She is also a big advocate for staying friends with an ex. As I said, her approach just makes sense because, much like the advice on here, it's just about understanding where someone is at, not pushing them, not making them out to be a villain, treating them as a human who has human emotions and not being attached to the outcome if it doesn't go the way you want. Here's one of her posts on NC: torontosnumber1datedoctor.com/blog/no-contact-brought-back-my-ex-im-sticking-to-nc/I think I did as I was reading a ton of articles.....I will admit, I made some pretty doozy mistakes along this path....and I am just so grateful that he and I both care enough about each other that we haven't made the other person the bad guy or blocked each other. I am going with a do over approach....as in...I know B...but I am treating this like we are starting from scratch. This means no relationship baggage...no looking into the rear view and saying what if and if only....because this is where everything starts. This is where I get to discover him as if for the first time. I do highly recommend working with your little girl on an action plan.....she will guide you in some marvelous ways and you can support her need for validation by telling her how fantastic she is to love someone so fully. Please keep us posted. |
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flic
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Post by flic on Apr 17, 2018 3:10:13 GMT
flic , it's good to let go of the relationship you HAD with him, it was toxic and two unconscious people acting out together. But you still have a relationship. it's a changing, growing, present tense relationship dealing with each other and reality AS IS. keep it real! tomorrow will take care of itself. show up messy, show up confused, but show up honestly with him TODAY. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Don't assume ask. Don't jump to the end, open to beginnings. Be his friend. Be your friend. Let him be your friend. work on yourself. encourage him to take good care of himself. don't let fear keep you from moving forward with you, your life, your altered relationship. it will resolve itself. there is no hope EVER of reconciliation if you cannot be authentic and you might as well start today. you will love how it feels to eliminate the disparity between what you arrest thinking and what you are doing. let your own actions match your own words. be true to you. that's the only way you can begin to be the partner you want to be. are you a good partner? not if you can't be a good friend. and only if you are taking care of yourself and showing up authentically. a day at a time! keep posting with us and showing up honestly in the present with him! Maybe I'm projecting a little too much into the future? I find it so hard not to. I'm finding the distance really difficult. Having him and this other city in my mind seems to be holding me back from wanting to re-create any life here. It's also bloody hard when grieving and recovering from quite a traumatic experience. I know I need to get my life back together, but I'm so resistant. It's a manifestation of not wanting to let go, I suppose. But it encompasses everything here - where i live, my possessions, a job, friends, familt, and it seems to be getting worse. I can't work out if it's because I genuinely don't want to be here, or it's just part of the grieving. Not strictly on topic, but I guess i can see how NC might make it easier for me to get my life back together. Not advocating for it, just wondering if that's why some people do it. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 17, 2018 3:15:09 GMT
flic , it's good to let go of the relationship you HAD with him, it was toxic and two unconscious people acting out together. But you still have a relationship. it's a changing, growing, present tense relationship dealing with each other and reality AS IS. keep it real! tomorrow will take care of itself. show up messy, show up confused, but show up honestly with him TODAY. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Don't assume ask. Don't jump to the end, open to beginnings. Be his friend. Be your friend. Let him be your friend. work on yourself. encourage him to take good care of himself. don't let fear keep you from moving forward with you, your life, your altered relationship. it will resolve itself. there is no hope EVER of reconciliation if you cannot be authentic and you might as well start today. you will love how it feels to eliminate the disparity between what you arrest thinking and what you are doing. let your own actions match your own words. be true to you. that's the only way you can begin to be the partner you want to be. are you a good partner? not if you can't be a good friend. and only if you are taking care of yourself and showing up authentically. a day at a time! keep posting with us and showing up honestly in the present with him! Maybe I'm projecting a little too much into the future? I find it so hard not to. I'm finding the distance really difficult. Having him and this other city in my mind seems to be holding me back from wanting to re-create any life here. It's also bloody hard when grieving and recovering from quite a traumatic experience. I know I need to get my life back together, but I'm so resistant. It's a manifestation of not wanting to let go, I suppose. But it encompasses everything here - where i live, my possessions, a job, friends, familt, and it seems to be getting worse. I can't work out if it's because I genuinely don't want to be here, or it's just part of the grieving. Not strictly on topic, but I guess i can see how NC might make it easier for me to get my life back together. Not advocating for it, just wondering if that's why some people do it. When I went NC...I told B I was doing it...I did not, as so many sites recommend, go silent without any notification. I think that can be cruel and manipulative. Do what is best for you. |
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flic
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Post by flic on Apr 19, 2018 11:38:08 GMT
So I sent him a couple of messages the other night, just to check-in as I said i would after we chatted, because he'd been so upset and i genuinely was so worried about him.
He hasn't written back yet. Which is fine, I am ok with that and expected him to need some time.
But I'm not ok, generally. I'm still existing in a state of limbo, unable - no, unwilling - to move forward with my life. And I just don't know how to change it. I think maybe the only way I'm going to be able to move on is to go back over there and pick up all my stuff. I need to get it out of my head. And say goodbye, I guess. My heart feels like it is breaking all over again - how can it be that i just can't accept this is over?
All i can think of are his words last week about how much he misses me, how much he regrets everything, how he can't believe we screwed this all up because we were both scared. We didn't show up for each other and we missed it by inches.
I know it happens all the time, but I can't believe a relationship where 2 people love each other and had so few problems can end because they got scared.
I miss him so much. Everything is in shades of grey without him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 11:48:48 GMT
flic, it's ok to give yourself permission to go. you can face whatever happens, as it happens. have you let him know the feelings you have shared here? begin with honest communication. if you hide the reason you are going you will sabotage authenticity.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 12:12:53 GMT
So I sent him a couple of messages the other night, just to check-in as I said i would after we chatted, because he'd been so upset and i genuinely was so worried about him. He hasn't written back yet. Which is fine, I am ok with that and expected him to need some time. But I'm not ok, generally. I'm still existing in a state of limbo, unable - no, unwilling - to move forward with my life. And I just don't know how to change it. I think maybe the only way I'm going to be able to move on is to go back over there and pick up all my stuff. I need to get it out of my head. And say goodbye, I guess. My heart feels like it is breaking all over again - how can it be that i just can't accept this is over? All i can think of are his words last week about how much he misses me, how much he regrets everything, how he can't believe we screwed this all up because we were both scared. We didn't show up for each other and we missed it by inches. I know it happens all the time, but I can't believe a relationship where 2 people love each other and had so few problems can end because they got scared. I miss him so much. Everything is in shades of grey without him. Flic....it will be ok. Love is a choice...so today you are choosing to love him. I would let go of "getting over" and "moving on" words and expectations....now is the time to be gentle to yourself. I agree with juniper...go over and share what is truly in your heart. See where everything lands. |
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flic
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Post by flic on Apr 19, 2018 12:19:27 GMT
juniper - as always, I appreciate your thoughts Which feelings do you mean - about how stuck in limbo I am? No, not really. But I was going to as to chat, when he does respond to my last messages, and tell him then, and say i think for me, i need to come over there to be able to move on. I will be honest about that. He may object to me coming, I know it will be so incredibly difficult for us both. I don't quite know how i will get through the experience yet. I really hope i can face whatever happens - I feel so fragile at the moment. I also feel very tender towards him though, so I hope that will help. It's just so hard to believe I will ever get over this.
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flic
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Post by flic on Apr 19, 2018 12:22:10 GMT
Thanks tnr9. It's a scary thought, sharing what is in your heart. Though it's reminded me that we can't control whether other people share what is in theirs, or indeed what is in theirs. I like the idea of 'choosing' to love him. I do choose that. I can't not. Maybe I should just be proud in that choice. We had a really great love, it makes sense Im not going to just let it go and move on. Thank you |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 12:25:31 GMT
flic, no i mean have you shared your feelings for him? any hope you have? if you consistently talk about moving on he will assist you in doing that. that may be why you haven't heard back. he sounds very self aware and also quite hard on himself and he will withdraw further if you posture that way. i'm talking about being honest and vulnerable and not just self protective posturing. My partner and i missed each other badly during times of failure and we never stopped saying it. he has been vulnerable with you about that. if he doesn't hear it back he will respect what you say. most DA are fairly frank when it comes down to the wire and we make decisions based on information we have. we can bite the bullet and pick a lane to preserve ourselves much easier than an AP can. AP tend to influence the outcome they fear because they feel vulnerable but hide it. there is not a chance for progress and new understanding without honesty and vulnerability. Emotional honesty. emotional vulnerability. that includes talk of fear, hope, confusion, certainty, all of it. say what's real in you. that's the foundation of trust.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 12:28:32 GMT
i honored the beauty and strength in my partner by being honest about my love for him when he wasn't able to reciprocate.
i don't regret it.
i spoke the truth to him even when i had no hope of having him.
even when i thought i didn't want him. lol.
he is who he is and i love who he is whether i have him or not.
i wanted him to know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 12:32:45 GMT
Most DA men will not bare all and then throw themselves under the bus for you while you posture and say goodbye.
they won't.
they won't continue to be vulnerable in the face of rejection.
this is a totally different animal than you think.
DA men are wholly misunderstood, as are DA women.
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flic
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Post by flic on Apr 19, 2018 12:51:29 GMT
juniper Oh I see. I had actually been thinking about this. It didn't feel right when we spoke on the phone to mention that I still love him and want to come back there, iIt wasn't at the front of my mind, but also i was scared and he was in a very emotional state it almost felt like that would have been too much for him. Plus, since he broke up with me, i wasn't sure it was good for me that ii say that. I begged a lot when we first broke up. Would it have seemed like i am moving on? I told him i miss him and im struggling to get over him and i cried a lot. I'm not sure i was in a state to articulate much more. Was that my chance to do so? I thought i should wait til i go over to tell him how i feel about him and the hope i have - but do you it's better to be honest now, over the phone? I'm worried that will scare him into not wanting to be there if i come over there. I've talked a lot in texts to him about us using the future tense - but in that i mean we need to stop ruminating over what happened (because even if we were to reconcile, it needs to be a new relationship). But maybe it could be misconstrued. I also told him i'm thinking of him. Though i did follow-up with a message saying when he wants to chat about all my stuff and my bike etc, let me know... Anyway, these are all just words, and Im probably displaying quite a mixed message to him right now. I thought i could tell him i think we owe it to our relationship to see each other face to face, to talk and see how we feel. I'm terrified to tell him i still love him and i want to be with him. I'm terrified it will scare him away. But it's probably what i need to say, so that if he says he doesn't, maybe that will be the closure i need. I don't know. I just feel so scared with him, too much and i might scare him away, too little and he might mis-read it. It also feels a little like i have to do all the declaring of intent and love and vulnerability, which maybe is par for course, but I'm struggling with when's the right time for what.
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