flic
Full Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by flic on Apr 10, 2018 8:23:44 GMT
I wish I'd known about Attachment Theory before i started my now finished relationship of 2 years (don't we all).
I think I was fairly secure when we met, but over time became more and more Anxious. My ex DA ghosted me 3 weeks after we met, after showering me with praise and affection and doing sweet things. He then came back, apologised and we started an intense relationship (silly me). On paper, it seemed the perfect relationship, he told me he'd never felt this way before, that i was 'the one', he seemed so perfect in every way, everyone marvelled at how perfect we were together - we all know the story. And I was largely happy to have found someone with whom i had such chemistry, who i admired so much, and who was always telling me how much they adored me. Though i always a little anxious, because of his emotional distance and need for space (which I was able to respect) and also he seemed to hold things back, not really care about my interests (I completely got caught up in his) lie about little things, not be honest with other women that he was in a relationship. If I'm honest, I was holding back the anxious side of me, because he had me on such a pedestal I was scared he'd run if he knew i wasn't perfect. I also realise now that we had incredible mental and physical connection, but he faked over emotional connection with external words and niceties.
Anyway, fast forward 18 months and he gets accepted into a post-grad program across the other side of the world. For 4 years. He asks me to come, tells me he is certain i am 'his person' and that he wants to be vulnerable with me. And i do believe that was true, which is the sad thing (he'd just started working with a therapist). So I give up my home, my job, my family, my 6-month old niece, my friends, and move with him. We hadn't lived together before, and he had purpose, community and new friends as soon as we arrived. I didn't, and completely lost myself, felt lonely, isolated, and my anxiety sky-rocketed. I clung, became needy, complained about the city we were in, got sad and depressed. He did do everything he could externally to make me happy - buying me things, suggesting i try new hobbies, make friends, etc, but suddenly his lack of emotional availability became a massive issue for me. I needed him to hold space for me, to empathise, and he didn't seem able to. He just withdrew, stopped wanting to have sex, and got more distant. And I got more and more Anxious and crazy.
But I was starting to ease a bit, 3 months in, and had a trip planned for back home for the following month, which I thought would help me. Anyway, a month before i was supposed to leave, he tells me he can't ask me to come back, that he's been scared i was going to leave the whole time, that i didn't commit and he couldn't handle my insecurity and neediness. It blindsided me because not once did he say "im scared you're going to leave" or even engage me in discussion. Instead, he'd be slowly detaching himself, even starting to look for other 'options' in girls, telling people we'd broken up etc... I tried to convince him to give me another chance (classic AP), he considered it for a while and said no, that he couldn't trust me, that he'd been fighting for our relationship the whole time, and i hadn't.
So now I've had to move back to my country - with no job, no home, no partner - move back in with my parents (in my 30's!) - absolutely heartbroken and wondering what the hell just happened. Is this kind of thing more than just heartbreak? It feels so traumatic i can hardly function. I realise how much I diminished in the relationship - how much his interests and his ideology and his wonderful persona had taken up the space of my own identity - I literally feel like he sucked all my emotional stability out of me and i have lost myself. Is this normal for an AP after a break-up with a DA? And how in the hell do i a) find myself again and build my self-esteem b) Find a way of becoming secure and not traumatised by this
TL;DR: Ex DA made me move across the world for him, dumped me when i got anxious and needy, now I've lost my identity (and everything else) and have no idea how to put myself back together.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 10, 2018 12:07:55 GMT
Welcome...wow.....so to answer your question...yes, a person with AP attachment can lose themselves in an unhealthy relationship. Especially if the relationship equites losing all other aspects that assist with defining and validating who you are. Honestly, I would have such compassion for yourself right now...you literally left everything for this man under the pretense that it would last forever. It is also completely understandable that you would become anxious in a foreign country and become needy. My personal assessment of his trust comments is that he was projecting his own behavior onto you (since you said he was acting to other girls like he was already single). Right now....the best thing you can do is give yourself time to grieve and heal. Your identity will come back as you make new friends and find new hobbies. I am terribly sorry you went through this. The " you are the one" to "you aren't the one" story is very common on these boards...I encourage you to read back through the AP section as you will find that you are not alone. Hugs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 11:39:48 GMT
Hi flic, although your post sounds a little lost on your end, I actually see a huge beginning of hope in what your wrote. Let me explain! First, yes, it's normal what you are feeling. Unfortunately you gave years of your life to a rather selfish man with no regard for your situation upon your break-up. At least if you had been married, you would receive alimony to tide you through till you get on your own feet. Fortunately, your folks are behind you. I had a friend who went through the very same, a horrible marriage, a child and divorce to a lost man, with hardly any alimony or child support from her wealthy in-law's, but she had her own parents and family supporting her while she got back to work and support herself. So believe above all that you WILL get there...like they say, when you're walking through hell, keep walking. Most of us walked through hell and ended up the other side, looking back and beckoning at the ones behind.  Here's HOW. Believe that you can control how you feel, because it is all in your head. Confidence stems from belief in yourself, belief that you WILL achieve what you set out to do, not all at once, but step by step as you move towards your goal. For example, close your eyes and imagine you are holding a big juicy lemon. Smell it. Inhale its citron essence. Imagine you sink your teeth into it. Your mouth starts to salivate, right? So even though you know for a fact that it doesn't exist, when you tell your mind that it does, your mind (and body) obeys your command. So if you want your self-esteem back, you can, because YOU are in charge here. You can practise reminding your mind, body and soul of the hugely competent, self-aware, intelligent woman you are, focusing on the memories of achievement and success you had. You are still the same person who had achieved much in the past. You wandered off for a while but you are back. One of the best therapist for this is Marisa Peer and her methods. The lemon experiment is one of them. They are so simple, yet effective in getting you to understand their message. They have helped me so much. I highly recommend her book "Ultimate Confidence". The most positive impression I got from this seemingly negative sentence is that you WANT to put yourself back together again. You ARE together already, because there are many out there who don't even want to put themselves back together, but prefer to linger in limbo hell. I was one such person. It is only when I made up my mind to recover from an abusive relationship with a NPD man and his family that I did. Be kind to yourself, though you can set yourself a timeline with goals to get your mojo back. That is really helpful because that speeds things up even more. It is all a matter of your mind. You might slip, fail, but as long as you keep going, you will get there. Tell yourself it's ok to fail when you try, but never fail to try. Everyone in this world had to grapple with failures, so you are not alone. The ones who succeed are the ones that pick themselves up and try again and again, with each success comes confidence and self-esteem. Remember the word SELF-esteem contains a very big word, SELF. See, it's all doable because it's YOU who is doing this work. If you start respecting and encouraging yourself instead of chiding yourself for the failures, you will immediately gain self-esteem because you have changed the voice inside your head, from a critic to a partner, supporter and friend. It isn't that easy to get rid of this critical voice, but you can, because it is *your* voice. You can praise and encourage yourself for your strength, intelligence and resilience, just like you tell yourself that you are biting into a lemon. The self-esteem magically returns as you esteem yourself. Self-esteem. See? Read the books, watch her TED talks and videos, your realization comes fast and soon you will be on your way.  |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 12, 2018 15:58:08 GMT
Hi flic, although your post sounds a little lost on your end, I actually see a huge beginning of hope in what your wrote. Let me explain! First, yes, it's normal what you are feeling. Unfortunately you gave years of your life to a rather selfish man with no regard for your situation upon your break-up. At least if you had been married, you would receive alimony to tide you through till you get on your own feet. Fortunately, your folks are behind you. I had a friend who went through the very same, a horrible marriage, a child and divorce to a lost man, with hardly any alimony or child support from her wealthy in-law's, but she had her own parents and family supporting her while she got back to work and support herself. So believe above all that you WILL get there...like they say, when you're walking through hell, keep walking. Most of us walked through hell and ended up the other side, looking back and beckoning at the ones behind. Here's HOW. Believe that you can control how you feel, because it is all in your head. Confidence stems from belief in yourself, belief that you WILL achieve what you set out to do, not all at once, but step by step as you move towards your goal. For example, close your eyes and imagine you are holding a big juicy lemon. Smell it. Inhale its citron essence. Imagine you sink your teeth into it. Your mouth starts to salivate, right? So even though you know for a fact that it doesn't exist, when you tell your mind that it does, your mind (and body) obeys your command. So if you want your self-esteem back, you can, because YOU are in charge here. You can practise reminding your mind, body and soul of the hugely competent, self-aware, intelligent woman you are, focusing on the memories of achievement and success you had. You are still the same person who had achieved much in the past. You wandered off for a while but you are back. One of the best therapist for this is Marisa Peer and her methods. The lemon experiment is one of them. They are so simple, yet effective in getting you to understand their message. They have helped me so much. I highly recommend her book "Ultimate Confidence". The most positive impression I got from this seemingly negative sentence is that you WANT to put yourself back together again. You ARE together already, because there are many out there who don't even want to put themselves back together, but prefer to linger in limbo hell. I was one such person. It is only when I made up my mind to recover from an abusive relationship with a NPD man and his family that I did. Be kind to yourself, though you can set yourself a timeline with goals to get your mojo back. That is really helpful because that speeds things up even more. It is all a matter of your mind. You might slip, fail, but as long as you keep going, you will get there. Tell yourself it's ok to fail when you try, but never fail to try. Everyone in this world had to grapple with failures, so you are not alone. The ones who succeed are the ones that pick themselves up and try again and again, with each success comes confidence and self-esteem. Remember the word SELF-esteem contains a very big word, SELF. See, it's all doable because it's YOU who is doing this work. If you start respecting and encouraging yourself instead of chiding yourself for the failures, you will immediately gain self-esteem because you have changed the voice inside your head, from a critic to a partner, supporter and friend. It isn't that easy to get rid of this critical voice, but you can, because it is *your* voice. You can praise and encourage yourself for your strength, intelligence and resilience, just like you tell yourself that you are biting into a lemon. The self-esteem magically returns as you esteem yourself. Self-esteem. See? Read the books, watch her TED talks and videos, your realization comes fast and soon you will be on your way. Hey curious...I watched one of her videos...thought it was interesting...what struck me is that I hit an internal snag with saying I am enough...because somewhere I was taught that those words are prideful. I am trying to figure out where that message originated from but it has really thrown me for a loop. It is as if have condemned myself to constantly feel bad because anything I say that is good hits against a feeling of shame that I am boasting and as a Christian...pride is a sin. So I need to explore this a bit more with my bible study teacher tonight. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 12, 2018 15:59:18 GMT
Also...it is ok t say good things about others...just not so much about myself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 18:36:09 GMT
Hey curious...I watched one of her videos...thought it was interesting...what struck me is that I hit an internal snag with saying I am enough...because somewhere I was taught that those words are prideful. I am trying to figure out where that message originated from but it has really thrown me for a loop. It is as if have condemned myself to constantly feel bad because anything I say that is good hits against a feeling of shame that I am boasting and as a Christian...pride is a sin. So I need to explore this a bit more with my bible study teacher tonight. Oh I get it! It can sound arrogant if put in a certain way, and we are all taught to be humble, because we can always improve ourselves, so we should never feel self-satisfied, etc. I'm not really a Christian (rather scientific...do believe in the Universe) but I went to church when I was young. I'm going to do a mind experiment, substituting Good, Positive = God vs. Not Good, Negative = Other, to reframe the dialogue with self. Let's see how to put it the Christian way....it's not really "I am good enough so I don't need to become a better person", but "I am enough because God loves me as I am, sinner and all. I am enough for God to love me, and so I love myself, even if no other person out there loves me. God loves me and I deserve His great love, so why should I not love myself, be kind to myself, forgive myself, as God is kind and loving and forgiving. He has already filled me, so I am ENOUGH"? When I am anchored in this peace, this love, knowing I am enough, I can surely focus inwards and outwards, to move mountains, to achieve a higher purpose instead of searching within and without for something to fill that deceptive void, which says there isn't enough? To always be longing for "something" as if it's not there, it's out of reach, when it's *there* all along, inside? God is telling me all along I am enough, it's the ahem...*other* voice that's telling me I'm short, I'm not good enough, not whole enough, not lovable enough.  Hope it breaks the snag for you because Peer has a really great message and it is so simple to understand and it works. If you are able to "get" this primordial God's love for yourself, that you stop criticizing yourself for your perceived shortcomings, but focus on all the positives, and harness all the power that your God gave you as a mind with its own will, that you can be master of your mind to do more right by yourself, so you don't need anything or anybody out there to feel you are enough, then you can rise up to every challenge in life, without a single hesitation. Whatever that is good for yourself is available to you to achieve as a goal. Don't know if I'm getting this right...  If I am can I become a preacher? I am waiting for my next project/contract and man, I could do with a short stint doing something.... |
|
flic
Full Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by flic on Apr 13, 2018 0:35:58 GMT
Thanks - this helped a lot. I'm really struggling at the moment because he gets to keep living his life as he was, and I know he will be out there meeting new girls, probably getting into another relationship really soon. And i am back here, hating my old life, wishing i'd tried harder to like it over there, wondering whether maybe it is all my fault. Everything about my old life is tainted with memories of him, and I feel so stuck. Sometimes i wonder where he had NPD (though I'm sure he doesn't, though maybe Avoidant Personality Disorder) because i actually feel like i was brainwashed for 2 years and have been left with nothing. I will have a watch of Marisa Peer, hopefully it helps. I've never felt such low self-worth before - before we left to go overseas my life seemed so good (though truth be told i was already a bit anxious about the relationship. But was it self-fulfilling prophecy by me, or was it his behaviour?) |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 2:51:43 GMT
Thanks - this helped a lot. I'm really struggling at the moment because he gets to keep living his life as he was, and I know he will be out there meeting new girls, probably getting into another relationship really soon. And i am back here, hating my old life, wishing i'd tried harder to like it over there, wondering whether maybe it is all my fault. Everything about my old life is tainted with memories of him, and I feel so stuck. Sometimes i wonder where he had NPD (though I'm sure he doesn't, though maybe Avoidant Personality Disorder) because i actually feel like i was brainwashed for 2 years and have been left with nothing. I will have a watch of Marisa Peer, hopefully it helps. I've never felt such low self-worth before - before we left to go overseas my life seemed so good (though truth be told i was already a bit anxious about the relationship. But was it self-fulfilling prophecy by me, or was it his behaviour?) Gosh...I understand the story that your brain is telling yourself about it possibly being all your fault. That is a straight out lie....it takes 2 people for a relationship to work....I haven't read where he tried to make it better. Give yourself some time to heal...please do not rush the process or judge yourself based on some arbitrary thought that you should be doing better by now. Also....you don't know what he is up to...so when your mind goes there....just remind yourself that that is just one possible scenario....he could be miserable for all you know. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 12:42:32 GMT
Thanks - this helped a lot. I'm really struggling at the moment because he gets to keep living his life as he was, and I know he will be out there meeting new girls, probably getting into another relationship really soon. And i am back here, hating my old life, wishing i'd tried harder to like it over there, wondering whether maybe it is all my fault. Everything about my old life is tainted with memories of him, and I feel so stuck. Sometimes i wonder where he had NPD (though I'm sure he doesn't, though maybe Avoidant Personality Disorder) because i actually feel like i was brainwashed for 2 years and have been left with nothing. I will have a watch of Marisa Peer, hopefully it helps. I've never felt such low self-worth before - before we left to go overseas my life seemed so good (though truth be told i was already a bit anxious about the relationship. But was it self-fulfilling prophecy by me, or was it his behaviour?) I was in a similar dilemma as you, but I left a long toxic relationship of my own will because the NPD partner really did a lot to destroy my self-esteem, my career, my belief in my own abilities. We were in the same profession, in the same office, and it would be unbelievable that he actually viewed me as a rival, copied my work, lied, attacked me in front of junior staff and maneuvred to have my work sidelined and buried. I couldn't believe it, neither could anyone - they thought I was crazy when I described what was happening. Why would one's partner actively worked to sabotage not only the relationship but the other's career? The bizarre thing is he didn't ever want to break up - he thought he loved me, to this day he claims that. It was only when I Googled his behavior and discovered "gaslighting", "projection", "narcissistic injury", "devaluation", "hoovering", etc. that I finally understood the madness of this personality disorder. Like you, I was left devastated, ruminating, marinating in misery, wondering WHY it happened to me, what was I supposed to do, etc. I now wish I had discovered Life Coaching and Mind Hacking earlier instead of wasting a lot of time asking myself "Why" questions and not "How" questions. Although Peer had some great videos, I find her book "Ultimate confidence" even more helpful. When you ask yourself "Why" questions, you keep digging in your hole because your Mind would give you answers that keep you stuck. Eg. Why did I waste X years of my life with this heartless partner? Your Mind answers because you are gullible, weak-minded, he is greater than you, you are lost without him. This just keeps you in a perpetual feedback loop of your own hell/hole. I felt optimistic because you mentioned you would like to know HOW to get your mojo back. That's the right question to get you on your way! Your current state stuck in hole--->HOW/METHOD of Mind Transformation---->Transformed state of becoming your confident self, completely free of baggage. Your Mind likes the familiar, even if it is sheer misery, and doesn't want to go to the unfamiliar, even if it is a state of peace, confidence and optimism. It hears you asking WHY questions, it "gets" that you like staying in this state asking WHY questions, your Mind will help you stay in the state that you WANT to remain in. When you WANT to move to a higher plane, your Mind will help you do that too. How? So Peer's methods help you to train your Mind to make the familiar (misery) unfamiliar, and the unfamiliar (that elusive confident Self) familiar. That's basically it, really simple. I'm going through the same process and it works FAST. I'm still reading and practising the methods, and I've already seen some results over a matter of days. However, if you keep your focus on HIM, what he's doing now, why he did what he did, did you do something to make yourself repulsive to him, etc..stewing WHY questions, you won't get out of the hole as you keep digging, digging, for answers that keep you deeper in the hole. That's one of the reasons I have left this site too, because there was a lot of ruminating over my ex DA in my posts, which I contributed to. However, there're a lot of fellow members who are sharing their HOW journeys, especially the DAs, which form a very encouraging self-help group, and I find the support super helpful. I'm also discovering and understanding my own Avoidant tendencies, becoming more self-aware. I might need that if my ex DA comes back to look-see..  ...I still like him more than any other men I've met so far, even though his extreme DA makes him completely unsuitable. I suspect it's because I'm older and the pool of good men is shrinking...oh there I go again with WHY questions! The situation doesn't change, but if I take on a more glass half-full perspective, it is more likely that I would stay optimistic, and this optimism will get me to not give up, to go out and meet more men, thus increasing my chances of meeting a great guy some day. See how it works? Good luck with your journey! |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 15:12:52 GMT
I was in a similar dilemma as you, but I left a long toxic relationship of my own will because the NPD partner really did a lot to destroy my self-esteem, my career, my belief in my own abilities. We were in the same profession, in the same office, and it would be unbelievable that he actually viewed me as a rival, copied my work, lied, attacked me in front of junior staff and maneuvred to have my work sidelined and buried. I couldn't believe it, neither could anyone - they thought I was crazy when I described what was happening. Why would one's partner actively worked to sabotage not only the relationship but the other's career? The bizarre thing is he didn't ever want to break up - he thought he loved me, to this day he claims that. It was only when I Googled his behavior and discovered "gaslighting", "projection", "narcissistic injury", "devaluation", "hoovering", etc. that I finally understood the madness of this personality disorder. Like you, I was left devastated, ruminating, marinating in misery, wondering WHY it happened to me, what was I supposed to do, etc. I now wish I had discovered Life Coaching and Mind Hacking earlier instead of wasting a lot of time asking myself "Why" questions and not "How" questions. Although Peer had some great videos, I find her book "Ultimate confidence" even more helpful. When you ask yourself "Why" questions, you keep digging in your hole because your Mind would give you answers that keep you stuck. Eg. Why did I waste X years of my life with this heartless partner? Your Mind answers because you are gullible, weak-minded, he is greater than you, you are lost without him. This just keeps you in a perpetual feedback loop of your own hell/hole. I felt optimistic because you mentioned you would like to know HOW to get your mojo back. That's the right question to get you on your way! Your current state stuck in hole--->HOW/METHOD of Mind Transformation---->Transformed state of becoming your confident self, completely free of baggage. Your Mind likes the familiar, even if it is sheer misery, and doesn't want to go to the unfamiliar, even if it is a state of peace, confidence and optimism. It hears you asking WHY questions, it "gets" that you like staying in this state asking WHY questions, your Mind will help you stay in the state that you WANT to remain in. When you WANT to move to a higher plane, your Mind will help you do that too. How? So Peer's methods help you to train your Mind to make the familiar (misery) unfamiliar, and the unfamiliar (that elusive confident Self) familiar. That's basically it, really simple. I'm going through the same process and it works FAST. I'm still reading and practising the methods, and I've already seen some results over a matter of days. However, if you keep your focus on HIM, what he's doing now, why he did what he did, did you do something to make yourself repulsive to him, etc..stewing WHY questions, you won't get out of the hole as you keep digging, digging, for answers that keep you deeper in the hole. That's one of the reasons I have left this site too, because there was a lot of ruminating over my ex DA in my posts, which I contributed to. However, there're a lot of fellow members who are sharing their HOW journeys, especially the DAs, which form a very encouraging self-help group, and I find the support super helpful. I'm also discovering and understanding my own Avoidant tendencies, becoming more self-aware. I might need that if my ex DA comes back to look-see.. ...I still like him more than any other men I've met so far, even though his extreme DA makes him completely unsuitable. I suspect it's because I'm older and the pool of good men is shrinking...oh there I go again with WHY questions! The situation doesn't change, but if I take on a more glass half-full perspective, it is more likely that I would stay optimistic, and this optimism will get me to not give up, to go out and meet more men, thus increasing my chances of meeting a great guy some day. See how it works? Good luck with your journey! The whole thing about not using WHY questions is fascinating...it is counter what Simon Sinek recommends. m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZoJKF_VuA |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 15:18:18 GMT
His point is that people do not buy for WHAT but for WHY...as in...purchases are a heart connection over a head connection. I do think " why" as a word carries deeper meaning than "what".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 17:33:07 GMT
His point is that people do not buy for WHAT but for WHY...as in...purchases are a heart connection over a head connection. I do think " why" as a word carries deeper meaning than "what". Apple inventions and ruminating over failed relationships, are, pardon the pun, apples and oranges, eg. "Why does the apple fall from the tree?" leads to answers like Gravity, which is useful Newtonian Physics leading to space travel. "Why does he leave me?" leads to endless thought-looping with a million possible answers in a hole no amount of digging will fill.  If someone *wants* to stay in the same state, and millions all over the world unconsciously do, right this moment, spending more time ruminating, about why he did what he did, can she get him back, what is she going to do now.... etc. he or she can certainly stay stuck there for months and even years. Multiply that by all these millions of hurt and lost partners...that's a lot of years. Someone I know in real life is like this - she has an unreciprocated crush on a man who never was even remotely a boyfriend, and at first, her friends were sympathetic, we all tried to help her to move on because it's a lost cause and we all believed it is healthier for her to get back to a happier place and find the right man. The very first lunch we had together, 1.5 years ago, she was already talking about this crush. It's a 3 year old crush by now that leads nowhere. In reality, she WANTS to be stuck on her crush and her unhappy life - he is the key to her happiness. She is happier to go on and on about this crush to us, she is happier stalking his Facebook, finding excuses to show up at his home, happier showing up where he is with his hobby group and we simply have to let her do what makes her happy. Most of us start to avoid seeing her because we don't want to part-take in her hole-digging anymore - it wastes our time too. I find stalking a lost cause troubling, that's for sure. She phones me complaining that everyone seems buried in their lives, and I too used an excuse to turn her invitation for tea down, because I know what will happen. There won't be a fruitful exchange but her incessant monologue and conversation loop, stuck in the same hole no matter what we advise her. She just wants some company with her as she digs and digs. In the end, all of us are on our own, making decisions for ourselves. The responsible decision I need to make for myself is to travel with other fellow beings on the same journey moving forward, supporting each other, learning wisdom and mind hacking, seeking clarity, helping each other live better and better. For me, I look back on the days when I was stuck with NPD partner and crying to friends with utter horror - my friends were saints to have put up with it, but unfortunately, none of us had any answers, no one knew about NPD, no one knew about life coaching. I wasted many good years - I could have been far far along on my career and relationship trajectory by now, if I hadn't been so stuck in my hell/hole. I wish someone had told me all these methods years ago - I wanted to get out, I didn't know HOW. OP seems to want to get out of a rut from her posts, I am answering the best way I can, as I distance myself from a shallow friendship in real life (there's no depth because it's 1-way, I'm just misery's company). I hope to help save time for OP. I think all of us do, answering with our best intentions, from what we learned, to lend a hand when one is needed. You are giving your own answers to her questions and that's great too. Perhaps yours is the right path for her. Or perhaps she will find her own third way combining different approaches? Everyone's journey is personal - the more one knows, though, the better equipped one becomes to make one's decisions to either stay or move on. This is the purpose of such forums, I feel. I'm not going to post more for the time being. Real life beckons, including a sunny vacation in the south of France. *dances*  The ex DA *might* look for me again, after the 3rd break-up, it seems many do, and if he is open to embark on the same self-betterment journey, I'll gladly walk with him. Otherwise, I need some strong medicine to keep me on the path. That's when I'll be back looking for support or advice. Again. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2018 18:02:20 GMT
His point is that people do not buy for WHAT but for WHY...as in...purchases are a heart connection over a head connection. I do think " why" as a word carries deeper meaning than "what". Apple inventions and ruminating over failed relationships, are, pardon the pun, apples and oranges, eg. "Why does the apple fall from the tree?" leads to answers like Gravity, which is useful Newtonian Physics leading to space travel. "Why does he leave me?" leads to endless thought-looping with a million possible answers in a hole no amount of digging will fill. If someone *wants* to stay in the same state, and millions all over the world unconsciously do, right this moment, spending more time ruminating, about why he did what he did, can she get him back, what is she going to do now.... etc. he or she can certainly stay stuck there for months and even years. Multiply that by all these millions of hurt and lost partners...that's a lot of years. Someone I know in real life is like this - she has an unreciprocated crush on a man who never was even remotely a boyfriend, and at first, her friends were sympathetic, we all tried to help her to move on because it's a lost cause and we all believed it is healthier for her to get back to a happier place and find the right man. The very first lunch we had together, 1.5 years ago, she was already talking about this crush. It's a 3 year old crush by now that leads nowhere. In reality, she WANTS to be stuck on her crush and her unhappy life - he is the key to her happiness. She is happier to go on and on about this crush to us, she is happier stalking his Facebook, finding excuses to show up at his home, happier showing up where he is with his hobby group and we simply have to let her do what makes her happy. Most of us start to avoid seeing her because we don't want to part-take in her hole-digging anymore - it wastes our time too. I find stalking a lost cause troubling, that's for sure. She phones me complaining that everyone seems buried in their lives, and I too used an excuse to turn her invitation for tea down, because I know what will happen. There won't be a fruitful exchange but her incessant monologue and conversation loop, stuck in the same hole no matter what we advise her. She just wants some company with her as she digs and digs. In the end, all of us are on our own, making decisions for ourselves. The responsible decision I need to make for myself is to travel with other fellow beings on the same journey moving forward, supporting each other, learning wisdom and mind hacking, seeking clarity, helping each other live better and better. For me, I look back on the days when I was stuck with NPD partner and crying to friends with utter horror - my friends were saints to have put up with it, but unfortunately, none of us had any answers, no one knew about NPD, no one knew about life coaching. I wasted many good years - I could have been far far along on my career and relationship trajectory by now, if I hadn't been so stuck in my hell/hole. I wish someone had told me all these methods years ago - I wanted to get out, I didn't know HOW. OP seems to want to get out of a rut from her posts, I am answering the best way I can, as I distance myself from a shallow friendship in real life (there's no depth because it's 1-way, I'm just misery's company). I hope to help save time for OP. I think all of us do, answering with our best intentions, from what we learned, to lend a hand when one is needed. You are giving your own answers to her questions and that's great too. Perhaps yours is the right path for her. Or perhaps she will find her own third way combining different approaches? Everyone's journey is personal - the more one knows, though, the better equipped one becomes to make one's decisions to either stay or move on. This is the purpose of such forums, I feel. I'm not going to post more for the time being. Real life beckons, including a sunny vacation in the south of France. *dances* The ex DA *might* look for me again, after the 3rd break-up, it seems many do, and if he is open to embark on the same self-betterment journey, I'll gladly walk with him. Otherwise, I need some strong medicine to keep me on the path. That's when I'll be back looking for support or advice. Again. I think you have missed my point...which is that although it is well and good to focus on whats...our decisions oftentimes are not made on whats but on whys. I think it is a dangerous place to cut off whys altogether..whys are often great soul awakening opportunities to discover whats. I have had many of my greatest revelations within the context of being caught in circular thinking. I am fortunate to have a group of friends who will sit with me in those moments and tell me that they are glad to be with me, even in my moments of round about thoughts. It has really made a huge difference...the idea that no matter how looney my behavior may seem to the outside world, I am with safe individuals who will let me find my own answers in my own time. Acceptance is a very wonderful thing. I wasn't trying to provide counter advice...just pointing out that it is a bit contrary to some other speakers that I follow. There is enough flexibility that both can coexist. |
|
flic
Full Member
Posts: 119
|
Post by flic on Apr 14, 2018 2:41:15 GMT
I felt optimistic because you mentioned you would like to know HOW to get your mojo back. That's the right question to get you on your way! Your current state stuck in hole--->HOW/METHOD of Mind Transformation---->Transformed state of becoming your confident self, completely free of baggage. Your Mind likes the familiar, even if it is sheer misery, and doesn't want to go to the unfamiliar, even if it is a state of peace, confidence and optimism. It hears you asking WHY questions, it "gets" that you like staying in this state asking WHY questions, your Mind will help you stay in the state that you WANT to remain in. When you WANT to move to a higher plane, your Mind will help you do that too. How? So Peer's methods help you to train your Mind to make the familiar (misery) unfamiliar, and the unfamiliar (that elusive confident Self) familiar. That's basically it, really simple. I'm going through the same process and it works FAST. I'm still reading and practising the methods, and I've already seen some results over a matter of days. However, if you keep your focus on HIM, what he's doing now, why he did what he did, did you do something to make yourself repulsive to him, etc..stewing WHY questions, you won't get out of the hole as you keep digging, digging, for answers that keep you deeper in the hole. That's one of the reasons I have left this site too, because there was a lot of ruminating over my ex DA in my posts, which I contributed to. However, there're a lot of fellow members who are sharing their HOW journeys, especially the DAs, which form a very encouraging self-help group, and I find the support super helpful. I'm also discovering and understanding my own Avoidant tendencies, becoming more self-aware. I might need that if my ex DA comes back to look-see.. ...I still like him more than any other men I've met so far, even though his extreme DA makes him completely unsuitable. I suspect it's because I'm older and the pool of good men is shrinking...oh there I go again with WHY questions! The situation doesn't change, but if I take on a more glass half-full perspective, it is more likely that I would stay optimistic, and this optimism will get me to not give up, to go out and meet more men, thus increasing my chances of meeting a great guy some day. See how it works? Good luck with your journey! Again, thank you - your point about HOW makes perfect sense to me. I do WANT to put myself back together, and what I'm realising is that I can't put myself back together to what I was before - she doesn't exist anymore. And that in itself is a kind of grief, but it's also the opportunity. There's a wonderful (but sad) saying - "you can never go home again" - and I'm experiencing it quite literally at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. I really believe all evolution and change of the self can only be good, if we allow it to be. Here's another quote i like, from a yoga teacher i follow: "The moment we start pushing or struggling to get ahead, we stay stuck. The moment we let go, we stop trying, we surrender to the situation we are in, that's how we move forward." And I totally hear you on the ruminating thing - we're all guilty of that i think, and this site unfortunately can encourage it without meaning to i think, partly because of all the lovely empathetic souls on here. tnr9 - I also totally understand your take on this - actually i'm loving the difference in opinion, it gives me a lot to think about! The last couple of days have been better - I've been DOING more, which has helped. Here's the rub, and @curious it's interesting to me how you talk about your ex-DA coming back and your wondering whether they will have taken a path of self-betterment. I spoke to my ex last night - he'd asked to speak earlier in the week since we do at some point need to work out what I am going to do with all my stuff over there. Anyway, I geared myself up for a cold, practical conversation, told myself he is an awful human, that i would just be cold back. But of course, as is always the way, it didn't go like that. Very early into the conversation he broke down crying (he actually hadn't cried for about 10 years before we broke up), telling me again how he is sorry for everything he did, and that every day he ruminates over what he could have done differently. We talked openly and honestly about both our behaviours when we are scared (i control and get angry, he pulls away and gets 'slippery'), we acknowledged both our parts from this that led to the break-up, and the fact that we just didn't communicate. He told me he can't believe how much he is crying at the moment. He's also incredibly lonely and isolated, since he's over there with no close friends or family. He said he can feel the change in himself, of letting the barriers down - and that he wished he'd been able to do it earlier, while we were together. To which I replied "great, i've just fixed you for the next girl." There was a lot of 'i miss you' from both of us, of talking about how we're both the 'worst best thing that ever happened' to each other, how everything reminds us of the other in each city... He said he still wants me in his life, he thinks we can be friends, and if i go over and get my stuff, how he really wants to see me. Now I find myself wondering whether, even though I know he did do a lot of DA stuff in the relationship (before i understood what a DA was), whether i am being harsh on him. I am not faultless either - i was so negative when we moved and pushed him away due to my own fear of abandonment. He did try hard to make things better for me when i was there - but they were things he knew, external things rather than emotionally connecting with me. I genuinely can see him accessing, for the first time, the vulnerable part of himself, the emotional side of himself. It's kind of beautiful to see. After we spoke, he sent me a text apologising for putting his sadness and loneliness on me, he said he just feels so isolated and lonely right now. It's breaking my heart that he is going through this alone, even though there's irony because it's exactly what i was experiencing when i was there (minus the heartbreak). There's part of me that just wants to book a flight and go tomorrow, to hug him and tell him it will be ok. After we spoke I cried for an hour, and I haven't cried for a month. It was cathartic, and since i've been filled with such love and gratitude for the entire world. But I wonder if it is dangerous for me to be trying to support him in this? I still love him obviously, and the romantic in me has the little fantasies of going over, and whilst I don't think it's feasible it could work out over there, i dream of us just having some time together, of being emotionally connected and acknowledging the love we still have. Am I just setting myself up for more pain? I was genuinely starting to inch towards feeling better. But I will also never be someone who can give up on people, because i believe in the good in people, that they are capable of change and self-development. I don't know... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 3:11:03 GMT
hi flic, I am DA, for reference. i don't know how exactly things have happened between you two to get to the point you are. it sounds as if there is a process happening in each of you and where that process leads, individually and in terms of any connection you have with him, remains to be seen. But i want to encourage you to open your mind to possibilities other than what your fear tells you. the honesty and openness between the two of you is a precious thing. If you don't overlay the present with your bias and fear from the past, new ways of thinking, understanding, and relating can take form. Our experiences are not meant to keep us swirling in stagnation, they are meant to evoke change in us. if we fail to make the change, we stagnate. but new opportunities always arise. eventually, we get it. For whatever it's worth, i think that remaining open to the experience of relating to him might be beneficial to you both. outcomes are not guaranteed, one way are the other. they are created. But it all happens moment by moment, a day at a time. sometimes things are not what we think they are. sometimes things did not happen as we perceived them to be , we saw them through our lens and reacted, and we can only clearly when looking in hindsight. I am not trying to influence you in one way or the other, only encouraging you to be open to the experience and let it unfold, as you authentically show up, a day at a time. And let the outcome happen without willing it or blocking it. |
|
...I still like him more than any other men I've met so far, even though his extreme DA makes him completely unsuitable. I suspect it's because I'm older and the pool of good men is shrinking...oh there I go again with WHY questions! 
