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Post by virusbkk on Sept 3, 2021 1:45:33 GMT
After some more careful reading of your entire posts, I'm certain this woman is an alpha widow, which is very similar to the phantom-ex phenomenon. Although she could have more than one phantom-ex, there is probably only one "super lover" (her gold standard) who you will be compared against at every turn. I know it is hard to consider walking away after 3 years, but you are in a zero-sum game. Her gains will continue to be your losses, and you will eventually lose in the end. You're losing out on another great partner out there who will be genuinely interested in you You're losing out on your own recovery Time is precious - choose the people you spend it with wisely Have you ever dated or been friends with a narcissist? Imagine what it would be like if that was your only caretaker? Do you think you would come out of that dynamic unscathed? I think it would be beneficial for you to consider what she must have gone through and how that has impacted her ability to have mature adult relationships. Usually relationships are not black and white but a set of gray meaning there are attachment issues on both sides. There is no place for empathy here. Everybody faces adversity in life, and we need to stop rationalising selfish / unacceptable (DA) behavior just because of what they 'went through'. Relationships are indeed not black and white, but it is mostly the DA types who are the least self-aware, most therapy-averse and unwilling to change. I don't have much knowledge about FA, so shall refrain from commenting further. I'd never heard of alpha widow, but whoever came up with that has never deeply spoken to a woman or given her credit for having a rich interior world, and also never heard of attachment theory. People, of any gender, who get completely stuck on exes tend to get stuck because they're not fully emotionally processing something. It's not necessarily the breakup (or loss of connection if it was too casual to be a relationship), it's probably something that happened earlier in life than that which is pushed far down enough to not even be on the radar. So it gets misattributed to the former relationship. Even if it was due to the perception of losing someone "high value," that's still the definition of insecurity. We're all just people, some more compatible than others, and high value is a subjective social concept imposed by our minds and not real. The term for this is overcoupling, and people with attachment issues can over- or under- couple, either of which subsequently will make their own lives and that of their love interest's more difficult. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responseShould you be dating someone with those issues? Probably not, but it has nothing to do with the ex. Very interesting read about overcoupling, but that is completely different from alpha widow. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 4:42:42 GMT
I heard that anger is fear with a fist, sounds true to me. It pays to be curious about what you're afraid of and turn attention to that, fix the real problem. Then nobody controls your destiny, you do.
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Post by krolle on Sept 3, 2021 10:40:50 GMT
Have you ever dated or been friends with a narcissist? Imagine what it would be like if that was your only caretaker? Do you think you would come out of that dynamic unscathed? I think it would be beneficial for you to consider what she must have gone through and how that has impacted her ability to have mature adult relationships. Usually relationships are not black and white but a set of gray meaning there are attachment issues on both sides. There is no place for empathy here. Everybody faces adversity in life, and we need to stop rationalising selfish / unacceptable (DA) behavior just because of what they 'went through'. Relationships are indeed not black and white, but it is mostly the DA types who are the least self-aware, most therapy-averse and unwilling to change. I don't have much knowledge about FA, so shall refrain from commenting further. I'd never heard of alpha widow, but whoever came up with that has never deeply spoken to a woman or given her credit for having a rich interior world, and also never heard of attachment theory. People, of any gender, who get completely stuck on exes tend to get stuck because they're not fully emotionally processing something. It's not necessarily the breakup (or loss of connection if it was too casual to be a relationship), it's probably something that happened earlier in life than that which is pushed far down enough to not even be on the radar. So it gets misattributed to the former relationship. Even if it was due to the perception of losing someone "high value," that's still the definition of insecurity. We're all just people, some more compatible than others, and high value is a subjective social concept imposed by our minds and not real. The term for this is overcoupling, and people with attachment issues can over- or under- couple, either of which subsequently will make their own lives and that of their love interest's more difficult. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responseShould you be dating someone with those issues? Probably not, but it has nothing to do with the ex. Very interesting read about overcoupling, but that is completely different from alpha widow. Isn't the main point of this forum to rationalize seemingly inexplicable behaviour? I'm not sure why other people are here, but thats my personal reason. To discuss, share and come up with logical cause and effect ideas about both my own and others relational behaviour. The goal being to come to better understanding of it and improve our relationships. I think there's almost always room for empathy. Because empathy doesn't mean you excuse the behaviour, or want anything to do with it. You can empathize with someone's behaviour and still think it's a horrible way to act. It just means you understand that you would likely behave similar if you had their genetics and past life experience. It helps further understanding rather than halt it. Even if you decide you want nothing to do with them in the end. If you look at some of my other posts, I have experienced the extreme end of insecure attachment in the form of BPD. With an ex that all but destroyed my mind on reflection. But I still empathize with her. And seek to understand, not blame. I won't put up with it anymore. But I better understand why she acts the way she does. And I feel less of a need to blame her. Plus, it helped me realise how much dogshit baggage I brought and contributed to the dysfunctional relationship. And for that I'm greatful for the suffering. |
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Post by krolle on Sept 3, 2021 11:05:30 GMT
In fact, I know this is a very bold statement, certainly beyond the scope of this thread. But I would go as far as saying a lack of empathy, plus projection, are some of the, if not THE biggest contributors to the breakdown of human relationships at all levels. From Teenage crushes to global politics.
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Post by krolle on Sept 3, 2021 11:12:54 GMT
Post script.
I talk a good game, and I'm certainly better than I used to be.
But I still understand the desire to blame.
And I still fall victim to it's charms and completely forget about empathy often. Especially when attacked.
I just know in an ideal world it's more productive to be empathetic than seek blame. easier said than done in some situations though.
.....Man I have an annoying ability to take threads on wild segways lol.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 13:33:41 GMT
In fact, I know this is a very bold statement, certainly beyond the scope of this thread. But I would go as far as saying a lack of empathy, plus projection, are some of the, if not THE biggest contributors to the breakdown of human relationships at all levels. From Teenage crushes to global politics. Nailed it. And interestingly, the least empathetic people here complain the most about a lack of empathy in others. It's a LOT of projection and dehumanization going on that I believe stems from a lack of empathy, compassion, and care for the self. That internal dynamic propels people into damaged and damaging relationships. And fuels blame. When you gain real understanding, forgiveness and care for your self, the whole world looks different. People look different because you see them through a wiser, more compassionate lens. Your relationships improve- your relationship with yourself and others take a new direction. |
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Post by annieb on Sept 3, 2021 14:14:40 GMT
“10 days of no contact will help me to ease down my anxiety and look at our situation from more sober perspective. I need to concentrate on my job, daily activities, hobby and friends.” One should be able to be in a relationship and also be able to focus on these things. “ I need safe distance for my own health.” I would say absolutely if she showed clear signs of abuse towards you. But I believe a lot of is your projection. “And it will help her I think.” It’s controlling of you to assume this. You need to ask her. I bet the answer is very different. Ask her. “She reads a lot about attachment theory, she is confused, maybe bit scared. She needs space, need to proceed slowly, I think.” Did she say she needed space? “I know her a bit. She needs time.” It’s you, who needs time. You’re projecting again. Ask her if she needs time. “Yes, that boy is not my stepson. But question is...what makes a bond between step-father and kid? Marriage or genuine care since he was two yrs old?” Again you say what makes a bond between a step father and a kid. Obviously time spent and shared and care and love shown. But he is not your stepson. It’s borderline cruel to keep developing this attachment without a commitment, it’s cruel to her and to him. “DTR with avoidant? Just...  “ Give it a shot. “Today she called me again and raised a question. What if she really commits, met my needs, be fully available and then...I, let's say a typical (i don't know) AP will feel...just boredom. Because I need to EARN LOVE. When I do not earn it, its not love. I need to pursue. She is afraid that I could leave her. I must say that I fear the same.” She is more in tune with you then you are with her. You make it out like she is controlling the narrative, when you are the one controlling it. “ Been there, seen that in my past relationships. BUT! - didn't act that way in my first, secure as I think relationship” Maybe you didn’t have your heart on the line like you do now. So hood for you for going on a limb. Challenge yourself. “- she was first girlfriend after 15 yrs that I really wanted to marry and have children with (and that was before difficulties occur)” Either marry her or end it. You’re wasting her time. She is the woman of your dreams, she could be a woman of someone else’s dreams, too. She is wasting her time with you. “- I am aware of such scenario and maybe could cope with it when it happens, just as she (hopefully), could cope when her deactivating strategies would show up?” You won’t know unless you take the leap of faith. To me the lack of trust in oneself is the most devastating thing. I’ve let my life pass by because of my fear and lack of trust in myself. Sometimes we just have to have faith that we are going to be ok. You are going to be ok. Trust yourself and using your best judgement, from everything you’ve learned about yourself and her, make your decision. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 14:37:22 GMT
This is dead in the water, each person trying to get some kind of reassurance from the other about the other's insecurities, while behaving in an extremely insecure way themselves. Typical trap. Not enough has been accomplished in either partner to embark on yet another insecure stint. Individual and couples therapy, with commitment, or nothing, in my opinion. OP is really messy and doing a lot of projecting, I agree. dexter there is no way you should be at the helm in this relationship the way you are trying to be (deciding what you think she needs while being extremely insecure yourself)- you need professional guidance. The two of you are very messy together and the stakes are high with a child involved. Been there done that in my own life and nobody died but if you are this insecure (codependent and controlling) going back in you don't have a chance. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 14:45:00 GMT
P.S. A month of no contact intended to change her beliefs and make her feel the loss of you is very manipulative no matter how you want to frame it. If you want to do that tell her exactly what you said here and respect her own thoughts and replies instead of the ones you try to insert into her head here. You are showing right there that yes, when you don't get your way (or you get bored or you mind read or feel the need to control her) you will leave her in order to manipulate the situation.
She's right on the money regarding her concerns about you. Good intuition, and she's learned from experience it seems. Do more work on yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 15:15:05 GMT
Have you ever dated or been friends with a narcissist? Imagine what it would be like if that was your only caretaker? Do you think you would come out of that dynamic unscathed? I think it would be beneficial for you to consider what she must have gone through and how that has impacted her ability to have mature adult relationships. Usually relationships are not black and white but a set of gray meaning there are attachment issues on both sides. There is no place for empathy here. Everybody faces adversity in life, and we need to stop rationalising selfish / unacceptable (DA) behavior just because of what they 'went through'. Relationships are indeed not black and white, but it is mostly the DA types who are the least self-aware, most therapy-averse and unwilling to change. I don't have much knowledge about FA, so shall refrain from commenting further. I'd never heard of alpha widow, but whoever came up with that has never deeply spoken to a woman or given her credit for having a rich interior world, and also never heard of attachment theory. People, of any gender, who get completely stuck on exes tend to get stuck because they're not fully emotionally processing something. It's not necessarily the breakup (or loss of connection if it was too casual to be a relationship), it's probably something that happened earlier in life than that which is pushed far down enough to not even be on the radar. So it gets misattributed to the former relationship. Even if it was due to the perception of losing someone "high value," that's still the definition of insecurity. We're all just people, some more compatible than others, and high value is a subjective social concept imposed by our minds and not real. The term for this is overcoupling, and people with attachment issues can over- or under- couple, either of which subsequently will make their own lives and that of their love interest's more difficult. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responseShould you be dating someone with those issues? Probably not, but it has nothing to do with the ex. Very interesting read about overcoupling, but that is completely different from alpha widow. You are completely trapped in your own narrative. Did you miss the part where it was the DA in this situation that listened to a podcast (searching for answers?) and reached out to this guy and introduced him to attachment theory?) You're "certain" about what she is in your own mind but you've ignored some basic realities in this story in favor of your unempathetic opinions. I'm DA and I searched for answers long ago. Perhaps female DA are more inclined to do this due to estrogen and the hormones that seek connection- maybe it's a biological drive. But one size does definitely not fit all. |
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Post by krolle on Sept 3, 2021 17:13:06 GMT
I think I need to re-read the OP's post again. I feel strange about this one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 17:42:54 GMT
"Two times I left her, cutting contact. I saw her fear of abandonment."
Really.
Go figure. And you would like to trigger that again with a month of no contact (in your original post you mentioned this I believe). Check yourself.
The main thing that really makes me think she is more FA than DA, or DA with a chunk of FA mixed in... I'd have to hear from her to have a stronger opinion but I can say with absolute certainty that if you left me and cut contact there would be no further entertaining the idea of a relationship. To go no contact and reconnect with all this manipulation in play is more of a disorganized thing in YOURSELF.
So, open to the idea that you have disorganized (FA) attachment and you are triggered anxious by her more DA/FA style.
In any case, a very unstable situation here.
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Post by annieb on Sept 3, 2021 19:33:29 GMT
I think I need to re-read the OP's post again. I feel strange about this one. Ah, yes, this is a tricky one, lots of projection and gaslighting (OP is gaslighting himself), so it’s hard to make out. But we’ve had worse here 😅 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2021 19:56:03 GMT
I think I need to re-read the OP's post again. I feel strange about this one. Ah, yes, this is a tricky one, lots of projection and gaslighting (OP is gaslighting himself), so it’s hard to make out. But we’ve had worse here 😅 Typical hyper focus on the partner's dysfunction as described by a projecting, gaslighting insecure person, though. Complete with a list of "deactivating strategies", or course and absent a list of "My own stuff that's totally dysfunctional that I need to change BEFORE trying to teach and enlighten my sick sick partner". But plenty of "I think I will try some no contact to try to turn this in ny favor. Its worked before and maybe this time I'm closer to convincing her how unhealthy she is. " 😂 |
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Post by krolle on Sept 3, 2021 23:33:00 GMT
As much as you both know I am a big fan of you ladies, and I do agree with most of what you said.
I feel a pang of discomfort that the way you are talking about it is a little insensitive.
I sense dysfunction, but no genuine malice in the OP.
Perhaps it's just the people pleaser in me feeling uncomfortable. And I need to check myself. So take my opinion with a pinch of salt. I'm just sharing my feelings with you.
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