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Post by deanna on Apr 1, 2022 5:03:01 GMT
Hello all, I am new to the site and very grateful for what people have shared from what I've read so far. It has been a real learning curve.
I'm a 48 year old woman, probably best described as an anxious-leaning FA (my therapist's assessment). I like to be in relationships - I've had five substantial ones in my adult life of 5 years, 5 years, 4 years, 7 years and 2 years - but also find them hard. The main issues are fear of conflict and abandonment and being triggered by 'we need to talk' style conversations. With the 7 year chap, I struggled to express and even identify my needs and would panic if he wanted to raise our issues. We really cared for each other, but could not communicate properly and nor could we properly split (hello co-dependency) - he basically had to leave our city. We remain in touch, and often there is a sense of unresolved sadness when we see each other.
After him, I quickly moved on to the next man. It was a friend who I moved into the house I'd shared with my previous partner. It started off as housemates and quickly accelerated. Clearly it was a rebound and I really hurt him. We'd always fancied each other, but his feelings were stronger than mine. I asked to take it slow, but he was confused and his anxiety really flared. Daily he wanted to talk about where we were going, what our future held etc, and I began to react very badly - almost in a primal fashion. I'd put my hands on my ears and sometimes flee the room. He was loud and persistent, and we went from bringing out the best in each other to the worst. I had to end it, including to break what I saw was a pattern of needing to be in a relationship, even if it wasn't working. Because we started as friends we have somehow managed to stay friends, though our conversations on the phone can quickly revert to our habit of him pushing and judging me and me fighting back.
Early this year, after six months single, I tried online dating for the first time in years and met R, an artist around the same age as me. We had an immediate rapport in our correspondence, and when we met in person, the physical attraction was strong. For the first couple of weeks, I was unsure whether he had any long term potential including because he had come out of a 15 year relationship (he has two kids, aged 7 and 8). I was also struck by odd quirks - he is quite obsessive about his diet, and also his painting which he explained early on that he has to do daily for his mental health. I'm a writer and academic so I could relate to that - until I couldn't. Our pace was about once a week (with amazing sex and full on rapture/ limerence) and daily texts, nothing too deep, but affectionate and regular. On the first week he couldn't meet me at all I expressed sadness via text, and he pulled back until I asked him in a very straightforward way what was going on, reassuring him I was into him etc. He thought I had dumped him! I sensed his vulnerability then and resolved to tread softly while also trying to express my needs. It felt safe to do so and in the last weekend we spent together we both said 'I love you' - I can't even remember who said it first, but we were happy and I think we were both relieved. We were safe!
Except I ruined it. Last Wednesday I got home from a dinner somewhat tipsy and texted him because I really wanted to see him- I've never been to his house and I decided it was the time. This spontaneity was definitely not his bag and he politely declined, but I took the opportunity to push further and say I wanted to see him more, didn't he want to see me more. He reassured me he did, but painting is something he needs to do as often as he can etc. I went all anxious and asked why didn't he ever initiate contact and why was I always making the plans - the completely wrong approach I now see in retrospect. And also not my usual style AT ALL - I very much respect space and independence and am protective of my own. Clearly I was more anxious about the relationship than I thought. The upshot was he took everything I said as criticism and 'reproach' and he became very defensive. I toned it down, tried to explain myself etc, said nice things (all on text- bad), but by Friday when he said he needed space I went into an utter panic - which I shared with a friend who I was texting at the same time. What happened next is nightmare stuff - I accidentally sent him a text I intended for her reading 'I want to tell him to grow up or fk off, but I'm afraid he will take the latter option and the pain will be immense'. I fessed up and apologised straight away, but knew the damage would be great. I could not stop shaking for hours. I hated myself, and still do.
I am not of the blocking generation, so it did not even cross my mind that he would do that - but the next miserable day I saw he'd deleted our initial correspondence and unfriended me on social media. I also assume he's blocked me on the phone. Struggling to make sense of the blocking, I retrospectively identified him as FA, including because of other behaviours. (We both also had traumatic childhoods, and come from a similar cultural background). It's now been a week since the horrible mis-sent text. I sent an apology on Wednesday via text, short and contrite and loving and acknowledging his need for space - it may have gone into the void. I don't know his address or his email. The internet rabbit hole has introduced me to practices and tips I never would have considered like 30 Days No Contact, steps to win back your FA etc - adding to the nightmare effect. I've swerved completely from FA I was with in previous relationship to anxious. I'm trying to just sit with my own crap, and deal with it, and resist projecting all my feelings onto understanding him and plotting to get him back and despairing I never will. Like lots of others, I also have a strong urge to share with him some of what I have discovered about FA. I have such tenderness for FAs! But gosh it hurts to be shut out like this, and my self loathing is intense. I'm not even sure what advice I'm after - I know I should just stay away unless he reaches out but I know FAs sometimes like the other person to reach out, once the storm has passed (this has been the case for me in the past). I know I should focus on my own behaviour- I seem to have willed my fears into existence. Self sabotage of the highest order, and I have hurt a beautiful person who was only ever gentle with me, and now he will probably never be able to trust me. I really sensed a future, and also safety, and I ruined it in a spiral of fear that has left me deeply shaken and remorseful.
It has helped to write this (I'm at work, tears running down my face) and thank you in advance for reading, and for any other perspectives people may have to offer.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 1, 2022 13:22:17 GMT
Hi and welcome to the boards…it is nice to find another anxious leaning (AP leaning) FA on these boards. I am not sure if your therapist explained the whole AP leaning aspect…but it means that you will tend to choose avoidant men….either DA leaning FA men or DA men to date. I would encourage you to use this time to unpack your grief…you have already sent him an apology so there isn’t anything more to do…the ball is fully in his court. When B broke up with me, I looked for strategies to win him back. I failed to appreciate that those sites are built around trying to manipulate another person’s feelings by going NC for a period of time, posting photos that you are having a great time and also acting cool while throwing in the occasional “this made me think of this great time we had’. I actually tried it all and it did not work….but I get why you would want to pursue that. Blocking is a way to ensure that another person has no access to you and it does seem like an extreme reaction on his part…but it sounds like you are both insecure. I know it will be hard to distinguish your mistake (and it was just a mistake) from his reaction….but his blocking you is about him. My one piece of advice right now is to stop hating yourself. Mistakes happen…even horrible, unplanned mistakes….but that only speaks to a moment where you lost your ability to regulate your nervous system and went into a fight, flight, freeze response. Right now…I would treat yourself to something nice….because you have an opportunity to show yourself that you are not your mistakes. Second….I would look up ways to calm your nervous system. anne12 has some excellent posts on the subject. You are more then welcome to PM if you want. 🙂
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Post by deanna on Apr 1, 2022 20:40:15 GMT
Thanks so much for your welcome and kind and insightful words tnr9. I love your posts on this site, you're very compassionate. I can see you've identified my particular hell hole of hating myself at the moment. I am blaming myself for everything and idealising R to the max. So many what ifs. The whole thing has shown me how much I still have to learn - at age almost 50. I started learning about attachment through my second last breakup where I was definitely leaning more avoidant and really wanted to understand why I was so triggered by the pressure he applied. I also felt the numbness and relief with that break up which was new to me. This time though... I am consumed by it. There really was a very strong connection and in many ways it felt so easy and somehow destined. Until he blocked me completely, I did not see much avoidant from him apart from being protective of his time. Looking back however I am struck by a comment he made in the lead up to the whole thing crashing and burning. He said it was the second time I had made him depressed. The first was the 'misunderstanding' where he thought I had broken up with him when I was sad about not seeing him. He is already depressed- on meds, plus self medicates w pot - but in fight or flight, he blamed me for his emotional state. That was his truth in that moment I guess. And I spiralled into panic, seemingly out of nowhere, the full anxious drama. I must stop being consumed by the blocking. We were in constant contact during our 3 months together so this really hurts. I don't even know if he read my apology on text as I may be blocked. I've now read and watched so much about FAs and blocking and in my weak moments blame myself for driving him to it. Plus I hate the thought he has gone completely off of me after being so loving and gentle. Ug! There I go again! It's now been over a week of this, I definitely need some new strategies for getting through it.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 1, 2022 23:25:19 GMT
Thanks so much for your welcome and kind and insightful words tnr9 . I love your posts on this site, you're very compassionate. I can see you've identified my particular hell hole of hating myself at the moment. I am blaming myself for everything and idealising R to the max. So many what ifs. The whole thing has shown me how much I still have to learn - at age almost 50. I started learning about attachment through my second last breakup where I was definitely leaning more avoidant and really wanted to understand why I was so triggered by the pressure he applied. I also felt the numbness and relief with that break up which was new to me. This time though... I am consumed by it. There really was a very strong connection and in many ways it felt so easy and somehow destined. Until he blocked me completely, I did not see much avoidant from him apart from being protective of his time. Looking back however I am struck by a comment he made in the lead up to the whole thing crashing and burning. He said it was the second time I had made him depressed. The first was the 'misunderstanding' where he thought I had broken up with him when I was sad about not seeing him. He is already depressed- on meds, plus self medicates w pot - but in fight or flight, he blamed me for his emotional state. That was his truth in that moment I guess. And I spiralled into panic, seemingly out of nowhere, the full anxious drama. I must stop being consumed by the blocking. We were in constant contact during our 3 months together so this really hurts. I don't even know if he read my apology on text as I may be blocked. I've now read and watched so much about FAs and blocking and in my weak moments blame myself for driving him to it. Plus I hate the thought he has gone completely off of me after being so loving and gentle. Ug! There I go again! It's now been over a week of this, I definitely need some new strategies for getting through it. If it makes you feel any better…B was also self medicating with pot and alcohol….and looking back…I think it is a way to disassociate from the pain of life. I think once you gain further insight, you will find that there are more chinks in his armor then you first believed and that regardless of how great things seemed….something was in fact “missing” that you needed from him. Only you can get to the root of that for yourself. In my case with B..it was safety. Things felt safe…until they didn’t….and I kept blaming myself for wanting too much, too quickly….but looking back….B was one foot in and one foot out at all times….and I needed him to be all in. That is the lesson I am taking forward…no more aloof men, playing at house but not committed to it. So what did you need that R did not provide?
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Post by deanna on Apr 1, 2022 23:58:19 GMT
So what did you need that R did not provide? - very good question tnr9 - and thanks again for sharing. I have struggled in previous relationships to express my needs or even to figure them out. My therapist has been helping me with this, & I think I wanted to establish whether I could do this with R. So I asked to see him more often and he was nice about it but stood his ground. And I pushed, and tested - & then lost it when he asked for some time to think about things. I can't help but think I blew it all up - completely the wrong way to go about things. But then again he blocked me, and now I have very emphatic proof that he does not have the capacity to deal with my needs given his own struggles.
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 2, 2022 4:43:26 GMT
On the first week he couldn't meet me at all I expressed sadness via text, and he pulled back until I asked him in a very straightforward way what was going on, reassuring him I was into him etc. He thought I had dumped him! I sensed his vulnerability then and resolved to tread softly while also trying to express my needs. It felt safe to do so and in the last weekend we spent together we both said 'I love you' - I can't even remember who said it first, but we were happy and I think we were both relieved. We were safe! I took the opportunity to push further and say I wanted to see him more, didn't he want to see me more. He reassured me he did, but painting is something he needs to do as often as he can etc. I went all anxious and asked why didn't he ever initiate contact and why was I always making the plans We all know the pain you are going through, and it is so easy to beat yourself up over it. Please give yourself a big hug, and know you did the best you could do with what you knew at the time and there were two of you in that dynamic. So often us insecure think we could have just tried harder, and pretzeled ourselves into a better shape and things would have worked out, but really they wouldn't unless both people are focused on getting better. How did he get from I miss you and want to see you to, you ending things? Without even trying to clarify? At 3 months wanting to see the person you love more than once a week is a perfectly valid request. I think even someone who is usually secure would start to feel insecure if their partner wasn't initiating contact or making plans, that is a very valid feeling. I also know the feeling of the going down the rabbit hole of get your FA/DA back, just do these things, etc etc etc. They really have a way of making you feel like a complete failure and eroding what is left of your self esteem.
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Post by deanna on Apr 2, 2022 5:02:56 GMT
[quote author=How did he get from I miss you and want to see you to, you ending things? Without even trying to clarify? I keep asking myself this question cherrycola. I so appreciate your empathy here, it helps to feel understood by people who have experienced similar. I think the missent text was the final straw for him, confirming I cannot be trusted and that I am too demanding. Plus everything I asked for was taken as criticism. I am beating myself up this weekend as reading over texts I sent as several could be read that way, as carefully worded as they were. It's a strange experience reading them through the lens of attachment theory. I see us both as fragile and scared and trying but also loving and invested. Hence all the regrets - if I had done this or that - but you are right, it would have been a walking on eggshells existence. I really am struggling with no communication - the urge to explain is so strong. Coming to this site and otherwise trying to understand myself is helping. Thanks again.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 2, 2022 7:28:11 GMT
[quote author=How did he get from I miss you and want to see you to, you ending things? Without even trying to clarify? I keep asking myself this question cherrycola . I so appreciate your empathy here, it helps to feel understood by people who have experienced similar. I think the missent text was the final straw for him, confirming I cannot be trusted and that I am too demanding. Plus everything I asked for was taken as criticism. I am beating myself up this weekend as reading over texts I sent as several could be read that way, as carefully worded as they were. It's a strange experience reading them through the lens of attachment theory. I see us both as fragile and scared and trying but also loving and invested. Hence all the regrets - if I had done this or that - but you are right, it would have been a walking on eggshells existence. I really am struggling with no communication - the urge to explain is so strong. Coming to this site and otherwise trying to understand myself is helping. Thanks again. The reality is that you do not know how he interpreted your text messages….and a simple solution to misunderstanding is to simply ask…”do you mean this?”. Looking back…I realized that B’s preferred communication was text…it was so ripe for misunderstandings…from the amount of time it took to hear back, to the single emoji responses. There were several moments that I felt he reacted to a wrong understanding of my intent but never clarified things with me. cherrycola is correct…there are 2 people who are part of this misunderstanding….do not beat yourself up over something that he did not take the time to clarify. I have another question….did you feel responsible for his feelings while the 2 of you were together? I know that I did…and looking back….I was very much enmeshed with B…so I took all the responsibility for things that technically were “shared responsibility”.
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Post by deanna on Apr 2, 2022 14:05:55 GMT
tnr9 - I so agree about text and the miscommunication it breeds! We actually both preferred it, and in the beginning it was one way we increased our bond. But it was no good at all for serious things and the last days of our correspondence were just dreadful. I can't bear to read them. As to the q of feeling responsible for his feelings - somewhat, for sure. I was aware he would be the 'sensitive' one, and it was definitely heading in that direction. It all ended so suddenly it is hard to talk about in the past tense. And you're right I can never know how he interpreted texts when we haven't discussed anything. I really do feel like I am in a parallel universe- I love yous one weekend, blocked the next. I think I am still in shock. Thanks again for engaging w me.
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Post by anne12 on Apr 2, 2022 15:58:53 GMT
Tips jebkinnisonforum.com/post/38626/You're in crisis. You can feel it. This breakup corresponds to the fact that you had lost your job, your home or even a close family member. It would be best to be on sick leave for a short period of time, maybe just a week. Unless it serves you better to be at work. Work in such situations can sometimes be the only place where you do NOT think of HIM and therefore is an oasis. Then of course you do not have to call your Work and tell that you are sick. What will be good to do to heal the broken heart? - Be sweet and kind to yourself (speak nicely to yourself also in your thoughts and allow the sadness, pain, anger and other emotions to be there - without them deciding) - Give yourself care = do the things that makes you happy: listen to good music, swim, go out in nature, use your body, etc. - Surround yourself with good friends and talk about something else than him.. - Stop exposing yourself to your ex. If possible, remove anything that may remind you of him / her. If these are things you do not want to throw away, keep them away for at least 1 month. - Stop finding explanations for the breakup. It's your brain trying to get its usual dopamine kick. Instead of getting the kick out of having contact with your ex, the brain is so smart, that it looks for explanations, like an addict looking for its next fix. - Write a list of ALL the NEGATIVE things about your ex that you can think of. The longer the better. Feel free to get friends to help you. Write it on your mobile phone, and then look at it, EVERY time you feel the urge to think about your ex. Especially of course when you are idealizing your ex relationship. - Help your nervous system get more into balance again so that you can be present in the precent moment. Do the water tank exercise: Or pay attention to your breathing: Just notice that you are breathing without changing your breath. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly with your mouth open and make a sound in the meantime. Do it 3-5 times. ( the watertank exercise - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/31863/)- Find out what gaps your ex filled up in your life and make a list of what it was your ex contributed to in your life. For each point, find out how you can fill that gap in your life in a different way than through a boyfriend - Allow the grief to be there: It is a loss to lose someone you love, therefore there will be a natural grief. Allow it to be there in the beginning on a daily basis - give it a place where it is ok if you cry (tears are healing) Use the Paradoxical method of change: if it is the pain and or the grief, then locate where in the body it is located and then say to the pain/grief just inside yourself: “It's okay, you are allowed to be here right now, now that you are here!" - If there is a part of you who does not think that the pain and or the grief is allowed to be there, then say to this part: "Ok, you are allowed be here right now!" If there is resistence to the resistence, Then say to the resistence that the resistence is also allowed to be here right now. - Gratitude will lift your mood and your energy. Just find tiny little things that you can be thankful for. It is not WHAT you are grateful for - but the STATE of gratitude that you feel in your body. The past interferes with the pain in your broken heart now but on top of that, the past also comes into play. Your love story. Your upbringing. If you have previously experienced losses in your life. Again, it's not fair at all that when you are already in pain, your past can catch up with you BIG TIME! An attatchment, love, SE therapist
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rykus9
Junior Member
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 2, 2022 16:15:02 GMT
Welcome deanna! I am just at the beginning of my own journey so I won't pretend that I am at a place yet to offer much help. I will offer out that reading through some of the threads where members trigger their own anxious avoidant traps just trying to offer calm and collected views from the other sides only to get immediately sucked in is really helpful. These are people that are not only doing self work but are not even directly involved so you can see how when you are emotionally invested in could make it that much more personal and volatile. Another big take away I got is there is no "sensitive side" we are all coming from the place of a broken child so to you he seems more sensitive in his need for space and self where as too him you seem more sensitive in your need for outside validation and to put energy into another. This is the trap, and being FA you can probably think back to how that AP person made you feel when it triggers your dismissive needs. Sending love and supporting thoughts your way, I know it is a deep pain but the opportunity for growth and to outlive old cycles is a great inner reward in itself.
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Post by deanna on Apr 2, 2022 21:53:59 GMT
Thanks so much anne12 and rykus9 for the tips, suggestions and kindness. It really is helping, & I am very grateful to have found this site. It really does feel like a crisis, an unravelling. At one level, I can easily link my responses to earlier ones. When I was 13, my beloved dad died suddenly. Then when I was 30, my best (male) friend was in a freak accident and died. I've been to therapy about all that and more for years now, but when something like this break up happens I feel I am back to square one and realise how much more work there is to do. When R and I had what we called the 'misunderstanding' - where he thought I had dumped him when I expressed sadness over not seeing him - we actually talked about our different sensitivities in that example. He seemed very taken with that explanation, especially as he had swung so quickly to worst case scenario. I really thought we were going somewhere, but the 'I love you' turning point seems to have sent us both into our deepest wounds, coping mechanisms and dark places. I really want to talk to him about it all, but I know- I must turn away from him and more towards understanding myself.
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Post by anne12 on Apr 3, 2022 3:18:46 GMT
When can you say "I love you"?
- are you "in love" in a relationship (crushing/honeymoon phase), where you do not really know the other person well enough yet - then IT is a bad idea to say it - because it's just a projection
- If the person you are talking to has a hard time loving themselves, it can be hard for the person to take in the compliment/the love
Is it okay for both of you, but it's too early you can say instead:
- I love when we go for a walk togther - I love what we do together - I love talking to you - I love the way you do things
Men likes to be complimented on what they do. Most women likes to be complimented on how they look, likes to be complimented for some qualities in them.
If you on the other hand have known the person for more than 1 year, it is recommended that you say it. But it is crucial that you are in touch with your ❤️ when you say it. Saying "I love you" can just be a confirmation that everything is okay, even though it may not be. If there is not enough love in everyday life, it can end in infidelity.
So remember to feel it in your heart. If you can not feel the love, it is good to do some loving acts in the relationship or to be loving. As a woman, it can be important to fill yourself up, before you can make contact with your heart. Do some loving things towards yourself (selflove exercises) Pleasure is also important for you to be be able to open your heart as a woman.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 3, 2022 4:27:07 GMT
I think B used this method…
Saying "I love you" can just be a confirmation that everything is okay, even though it may not be.
I do believe he loved me…in the “moment”. I think when he said it, it was genuine…but it wasn’t permanent. I so wanted, needed it to be permanent and it is something I will be aware of for my future partner.
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Post by deanna on Apr 3, 2022 5:20:32 GMT
Yes that description of 'I love you' resonated with me too. I think we both said it to provide the reassurance we both wanted and to let our guards down more. Then I stuffed it- damn those critter thoughts. I'm back at the self blame today.
I did feel anxious the day after the 'I love you'- excited, scared, concerned it was too early. And one of his last texts to me was 'you took the opportunity of I love you to give a bad performance review'. Sigh.
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