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Post by tnr9 on Feb 8, 2023 11:10:26 GMT
Fearful avoidant or disorganized just means you don't have behaviors that fall cleanly into one type of attachment. This instagram has some pretty good explanations of the different attachment types. http://instagr.am/p/Cn7DBOzJm3M This is great…wish I had this years ago…it would have helped explain what I was going through as a young adult….however…as someone healing from this attachment…the last sentence bothers me. I am able to connect now in very meaningful ways. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 8, 2023 12:59:21 GMT
I suggest you read one of Jeb’s books. “Bad Boyfriends” was what got me here. It explained the styles in easy language. I finally got what the pattern was that had been happening for 20+ years that I’d been seeking therapy for! I finally had words for it other than thinking I belonged in the loony bin.
I thought I was stuck in this for life. This forum shows me different by example, and for that I’m very, very grateful.
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Post by seeking on Feb 8, 2023 17:57:40 GMT
I really don't know - this is so absolutely confusing. I did a test:
Your score for avoidance was 2.6, this personality trait is related to how much you are unwilling to allow yourself to be vulnerable to your partner. High scorers do not like to open up to others. Low scorers share their feelings freely.
Your score for anxiety was 3.4, this personality trait is related to how much you worry about your partner paying attention to you. People who score high on this trait frequently worry about, and are dissatisfied with, the attention they recive. Low scorers tend not to worry about this.
The thing is, it really depends on the person. I've been with very avoidant/dismissive partners or ones who've pursued me.
My mother is pretty classic FA. My dad, who knows. He seeks me out a lot and it overwhelms me completely. I have to shut down and avoid.
My relationships with men have been altogether crazy. I've thrown myself at people, desperately. And I've also run from people irrationally.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 8, 2023 18:20:21 GMT
I really don't know - this is so absolutely confusing. I did a test: Your score for avoidance was 2.6, this personality trait is related to how much you are unwilling to allow yourself to be vulnerable to your partner. High scorers do not like to open up to others. Low scorers share their feelings freely. Your score for anxiety was 3.4, this personality trait is related to how much you worry about your partner paying attention to you. People who score high on this trait frequently worry about, and are dissatisfied with, the attention they recive. Low scorers tend not to worry about this. The thing is, it really depends on the person. I've been with very avoidant/dismissive partners or ones who've pursued me. My mother is pretty classic FA. My dad, who knows. He seeks me out a lot and it overwhelms me completely. I have to shut down and avoid. My relationships with men have been altogether crazy. I've thrown myself at people, desperately. And I've also run from people irrationally. I would not get caught up in the label….and test results will vary based on the individual you are thinking about. I think believing in your intrinsic value is a key aspect for moving forward. Perhaps just focus on that and forget the testing and labels for a while. 🙂🙂 |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 8, 2023 18:22:41 GMT
Who you think about during the test also matters. If you're just thinking about theoretically what you want and you're calm and untriggered, then you may come up secure. But think about a relationship with a friend that is up and down bumpy, or with an ex who made you chase, and with an ex who made you run. The results will probably all come out different.
The fact is, you're not happy with aspects of your life or how you respond to stress or some of your relationships, with where you're at. So there's underlying issues to address, whether the labels are popping right up on a free online test or not. You may also know how to answer questions "normally," but not deeply accurately, due to your overfunctioning.
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 8, 2023 21:02:44 GMT
Fearful avoidant or disorganized just means you don't have behaviors that fall cleanly into one type of attachment. This instagram has some pretty good explanations of the different attachment types. http://instagr.am/p/Cn7DBOzJm3M So the ones that fall clearly are like DA and AP? Kinda? Everyone ossilates a bit. Depends on the individual dynamic between two people. I can understand why you want a label to help navigate this but it is after all just a label and every person regardless of attachment is going to operate a bit differently. I've seen it explained before as an issue of trust. An FA doesn't trust themselves and they certainly don't trust others. As a result we have no anchor. We don't ever know if we are handling things right. I can see this lack of trust reflected in your writing. Like tnr9 for the longest time I thought I was an AP but when I really dug in I realized I was FA and my partner at the time was AP. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 8, 2023 21:36:06 GMT
I've said it before on seeking 's posts, it's really typical for FA to believe they are AP for years and years because they've primarily dated more avoidant partners or only registered feeling anxious and chasing, and didn't really notice or dismissed feelings of avoidance with more anxious partners because they aren't as acute and urgent in comparison, or feel like loss of attraction and must mean just-not-that-into-you-compared-to-other-exes. My FA ex who originally brought me to the forum insisted he was AP, which he absolutely was not (I was textbook AP, he acted and thought about things totally differently than me because he was textbook FA). The bigger picture problem for him with this though was that he didn't think any attachment style could ever change or that it was worth any effort to look at anything differently or be open to the idea any human being could change period. So even if he'd correctly labeled himself, his "label" simply didn't matter at all due to his entrenched perspective and determination to stay the same. Which is fine, his choice, but his general unhappiness in life persisted without change as well. |
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Post by anne12 on Feb 8, 2023 22:52:08 GMT
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Post by anne12 on Feb 8, 2023 23:55:11 GMT
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Post by mrob on Feb 9, 2023 10:42:50 GMT
My relationships with men have been altogether crazy. I've thrown myself at people, desperately. And I've also run from people irrationally. What a great place to start, seeking. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 9, 2023 15:38:13 GMT
My relationships with men have been altogether crazy. I've thrown myself at people, desperately. And I've also run from people irrationally. What a great place to start, seeking . Same seeking…..🙂 |
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Post by annieb on Feb 9, 2023 15:52:52 GMT
This is something I’m currently working through in my therapy and it’s about my self worth or feeling worthy. Separating myself from what I do. Who am I without all the external things I attach my self worth to, my work, friends, environment. Am I worthy of good things happening, love entering my life, if I just be. If I just am. And it’s been a challenge to get to know that person. I do well for a stretch of time with that and then something happens and I start looking at my worth in reference to the externals again. Relationships and relationships trigger me to no end. I love the idea that worthiness is really about being more of who we are. But yeah, who are we without external things. You wrote in your last sentence here "Relationships and relationships" -- was that a typo? It was a typo, but a Freudian. Relationships is where my self worth really takes a beating. Even friendships, but definitely romantic relationships. The common thread has been that I’m the responsible caretaker in them, and we are so not on the same page even if we’ve discussed it. The man is often still on the dating apps type of thing, while I’m out there signing a lease with him. That’s happened. I’ve been way more serious about any man in a relationship I was in than the man was about me. And it’s the desperate need and want for a relationship as it frankly grounds me in a strange way. Even as an FA. Granted I have the internal FA battle going on at the same time. And I think that’s the part where I have subconsciously also picked someone like that so that eventually I will be alone. Ugh something like that. At 43, I have ways to go. |
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Post by annieb on Feb 9, 2023 16:14:09 GMT
But for example the guy before last that I dated that was a work relationship, honestly I don’t think I actually would be serious about him. I don’t know if I could myself take him seriously if I’m really honest. It was more like the rejection that kept me in it than if I truly sat down thinking what it is that I want in a partner. It was the push and pull that I was more concerned about. So in essence it is all avoidance of self, whether it’s anxious or avoidant. As my therapist says she could never tell that I’m anxious just from the outside. I speak confidently and I look confident, but there is all this insecure turmoil on the inside. And I can’t get rid of it for the life of me. She reminded to try yoga and meditation again and I must say, regular yoga practice is the only time I’ve gotten past some of this, and also dancing. So things that take the rumination outside the body. Such a happy place, but so hard to arrive at. As I’m attached to the pain, addicted to ir, I must be.
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Post by seeking on Feb 9, 2023 20:05:16 GMT
Thanks everyone.
I'll continue to read and look up links. There's just a lot happening in my life--particularly relationships--that are everything. And I think the framework (albeit through labels, but with an understanding of what those labels mean) is really supporting me moving forward. I'm simply reading on Jeb's blog right now. And all I read so far are DA and part of Secure and already its opened up so much. I had a "huge" dream last night that showed me something important, I think.
The DA section was enlightening. It showed me that I am definitely NOT DA - right off the bat, just looking at how I parent and what I seek in relationship and in therapy. However, I can relate to this: "Avoidants “were most likely to be workaholics and most inclined to allow work to interfere with social life. Some said they worked too hard to have time for socializing, others that they preferred to work alone." BINGO -- however, he is talking about avoidants in general, not just DA.
I also realized that several exes were most likely DA -- a very long-term foundational one (7 years), the questionable "narc" I had a child with, and family members -- possibly my sister. My dad is an enigma to me.
Reading about DA helped me put pieces together about being around folks who I would feel "overly needy" around or "sensitive" or "demanding" or "weird" for wanting more conversation, communication, therapy, etc. This is where I think I have viewed myself as AP except that I was still likely avoidant just with a DA.
The list that Jeb created (of characteristics) brought up a lot - my ex of 7 years (in my 20s/early 30s) had a hard time telling me he loved me. It was like a prize I would win. He told me he didn't like how my pinky finger was shaped? Or how my name rolled off the lips (Like WTF) (But at least now I have an explanation of that). He had photos of his ex-girlfriend in a nightstand next to our bed when we lived together and I found tons of porn on his computer and evidence of multiple flings while we were together. I would scream, throw things, threaten to leave and then he'd want me back. I realize now I did that to get something out of him. The final time I left, he wanted to marry me. ?? Nothing made sense there.
It took me a very very very long time to get over that.
And then I was with someone very very not good. Won't even go into that.
And then lots of other dates and flings and one-nighters and scary stuff.
And then my ex who pretty much dismissed me after our first date and I went running back for more. Which is heartbreaking.
He used to point out that my bra and underwear didn't match, that my hair was frizzy or two different colors. That my jeans weren't the right cut for me.
Very similar to the 7-year relationship in these nit-picky things, which I was accustomed too from an over-critical picky father/family system (I had years of eating disorders).
He told me once he "decided he liked me" and while we were living together, with a child between us, he would qualify statements with, "Not that I'm saying we're going to be together forever but..." and flip out if I asked for certainty or clarity about what we were doing. He'd say "loves you" or put that on a note but never say it. He stopped sleeping in the same bed with me or having sex.
Of course between these two men alone, and my father, I figure it must be me, I wasn't good enough, etc. Shame, etc. Despite being a very attractive person, deeply kind, warm, etc.
It was when I had my daughter that I healed my self-love stuff with intensive therapy, Pia Mellody, Codependency work, etc. because I couldn't bare to hate myself and be around her. It took a long time.
But I still got confused about her father. I still am, I guess. I wrote about that in another post on the AP forum and most suggested he's abusive, and narcissistic but the thread kind of deteriorated. I'm just trying to understand what happened in my life and led to my C-PTSD dx -- which is primarily relational trauma (and generational/developmental).
I've watched how my sister treats her husband and it's horrible. I think she may be DA. She won't seek therapy, needs people to do stuff for her, blamed me for making a big deal about our childhood (because, I realized, she doesn't even remember). She also complains about her husband who does everything for her and their kids as if she doesn't need him.
I'm pretty sure these folks are DA. Doesn't make them bad people - clearly they are troubled and have a lot of unresolved issues and trauma. But it's just been very very hard for me to have had so much exposure and been so hurt by them.
I think the worst part of the hurt that remains other than I have healing to do around my daughter's dad and a little around my sister is that they are all "happily" married - in longer-term relationships and I've been alone for years, working hard on myself, and seriously struggling. Like they "landed" in a soft place and no-one will ever hold them accountable. That part I'm not entirely sure what to do with (and TBH, I don't know if my 7-year ex is still married -- it would not surprise me if he weren't).
And Jeb does say in the DA article about how these relationships - with AP - can be relatively stable for years. Seems so odd, but I guess that makes sense with intermittent reinforcement or whatever else glues them together (trauma bonding/fantasy bonding, I'm assuming).
More soon - still exploring here.
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 9, 2023 20:24:27 GMT
Some of these relationships you are describing actually sound abusive, more so than attachment issues. You may benefit from reading "Why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft. That book is eye opening. When people are abusive it's not even about attachment style anymore, they are withholding or saying terrible things to have power over you.
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