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Post by seeking on Feb 11, 2023 2:51:30 GMT
I would ask why? Why do you need someone to take care of you? We’re a similar age and women in my part of the world were taught they didn’t need men and could do anything themselves. Plenty do. I don't need this - I was more just saying that they have these types of nurturing people in their lives, and there have been times when I would have given anything to have someone alongside me on this insane ride I've been on for 10 years but haven't had that. I don't need someone to take care of me. I just meant that it would be nice to have someone - and taking care of one another in a healthy way isn't something I see as making me less capable of taking care of myself. It's just a longing and I think part of a healthy intimate connection. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 11, 2023 2:56:53 GMT
So….spending time delving into other people’s attachment issues can end up being a distraction from working on your own.. Itis a very hard thing to break…looking at the “other person” for an AP or AP leaning FA because the focus has always been outward. Yes, except I'm doing that here on the forum but outside that I'm spending 90% of my time looking at me. So while it may appear that I'm using it as a distraction, I can assure you I'm working harder on myself than anyone I know and I have a wide circle of people I know from all walks of life. I'm pretty sure I'm not deluded about that. If I'm looking at other people, it's people who have greatly impacted me - i.e., I went and did a test and turns out the test is dependent on who you're with - so I wrote a brief summary of people I was with and thought - oh with this person, I behaved a, b, c. With my sister I'm regularly agitated. I got full-blown PTSD from what happened to my ex. I have to look at my own father to understand my own attachment issues. It's all related, not separating things out to avoid looking at myself -- that would be the farthest thing from true. For me. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 11, 2023 3:13:18 GMT
seeking , I had the same questions for a long time about myself. And ultimately the answer was, it was because of who I was choosing. I wasn't choosing anyone stable who wanted the kind of enduring, serious, loving romantic relationship I thought I wanted. Those guys who were relationship rocks, that was kind of scary, maybe intimidating?, as well as boring. So I had to get my own head on straight, emotionally speaking, to start being open to healthy connections with the men who actually wanted those types of relationships. But I always let them go and really never dated them to begin with prior to straightening myself out, because it felt unfamiliar and no sparks, boring, not attractive to me, etc. But I didn't understand why because I was sooooo disconnected from myself and from knowing the qualities that actually made a healthy relationship foundation and partner... which also meant that I wasn't really the model of a healthy or available partner either. And yet I thought I was! But I was choosing unhealthy, and unhealthy was choosing me, because like attracts like. That's where my inability to "find" the partner I theoretically wanted came from at its core, borne out of my own insecurities and attachment style perspective, until I was ready to do things differently. Only then did things fall into place because I approached dating and choosing partnerships differently. It wasn't because anything was inherently wrong with me or I was undeserving, but the disconnection from self that comes with insecure attachment and emotional unavailability clouded my ability for truly healthy romantic relating. This is really well put. Thank you. Nice to have this named. I am wondering what qualities you figured out make a healthy relationship foundation and partner? It would be nice to have a yardstick, I guess. And when you say you were ready to "do things differently," can you give an example? I guess I truly feel I'm not disconnected from myself? I practice self-connection all the time. I work with my parts outside of IFS therapy and have a journal that I write in ongoing. I record my dreams, talk in a voice recorder about things I might want to explore. I read about everything under the sun. I know where my nervous system is at any given time of day because I check in. It probably doesn't come across that way on this forum b/c I'm usually here reflecting on something confusing, asking for help, and trying to understand my attachment style mostly b/c I haven't had the language for it or a complete understanding of it - but I'm starting to. And sometimes looking away from myself for a change at other people's situations helps ground me in something (as to TNR's point). It helps to have an example of what this or that looks like - i.e., a DA with an AP or something abusive or something secure. I tend to be visual and need things spelled out in that way. But despite that I'm pretty well connected to myself, I just don't always "get myself" in certain contexts. But can relate to choosing unhealthy like you're saying -- and yet that is also why I was perpetually confused recently about the guy I talked to online a lot b/c he struck me as someone long-term stable type but I was worried I was falling into a typical insecure trap of seeing that as boring -- only to just realize I was overriding myself and pushing to do something "healthy" as a reflexive response to the really bad relationships I've been in and the long spell of being alone and that's not a good reason to go for someone. In the meantime, I've just been working on myself - losing weight, dealing with a health issue, buying new clothes, planning to do more in-person things, expressing more warmth (rather than being cut off or in a hurry) when I'm out and about and around people. I also just pray a lot and have developed a relationship with God again and mostly see this as out of my hands if I'm doing everything I can save directly trying to meet people. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 11, 2023 5:45:02 GMT
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Post by alexandra on Feb 11, 2023 6:33:54 GMT
In the meantime, I've just been working on myself - losing weight, dealing with a health issue, buying new clothes, planning to do more in-person things, expressing more warmth (rather than being cut off or in a hurry) when I'm out and about and around people. I also just pray a lot and have developed a relationship with God again and mostly see this as out of my hands if I'm doing everything I can save directly trying to meet people. The one thing I'll add here is working on yourself really means healing underlying trauma. These changes are great if they improve how you feel about yourself, that's part of the process too. But there is still an aspect of all this that is in an old scrambled box that is what quietly creates some of the confusion you feel. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 11, 2023 8:25:02 GMT
seeking , I had the same questions for a long time about myself. And ultimately the answer was, it was because of who I was choosing. I wasn't choosing anyone stable who wanted the kind of enduring, serious, loving romantic relationship I thought I wanted. Those guys who were relationship rocks, that was kind of scary, maybe intimidating?, as well as boring. So I had to get my own head on straight, emotionally speaking, to start being open to healthy connections with the men who actually wanted those types of relationships. But I always let them go and really never dated them to begin with prior to straightening myself out, because it felt unfamiliar and no sparks, boring, not attractive to me, etc. But I didn't understand why because I was sooooo disconnected from myself and from knowing the qualities that actually made a healthy relationship foundation and partner... which also meant that I wasn't really the model of a healthy or available partner either. And yet I thought I was! But I was choosing unhealthy, and unhealthy was choosing me, because like attracts like. That's where my inability to "find" the partner I theoretically wanted came from at its core, borne out of my own insecurities and attachment style perspective, until I was ready to do things differently. Only then did things fall into place because I approached dating and choosing partnerships differently. It wasn't because anything was inherently wrong with me or I was undeserving, but the disconnection from self that comes with insecure attachment and emotional unavailability clouded my ability for truly healthy romantic relating. This is really well put. Thank you. Nice to have this named. I am wondering what qualities you figured out make a healthy relationship foundation and partner? It would be nice to have a yardstick, I guess. And when you say you were ready to "do things differently," can you give an example? I guess I truly feel I'm not disconnected from myself? I practice self-connection all the time. I work with my parts outside of IFS therapy and have a journal that I write in ongoing. I record my dreams, talk in a voice recorder about things I might want to explore. I read about everything under the sun. I know where my nervous system is at any given time of day because I check in. It probably doesn't come across that way on this forum b/c I'm usually here reflecting on something confusing, asking for help, and trying to understand my attachment style mostly b/c I haven't had the language for it or a complete understanding of it - but I'm starting to. And sometimes looking away from myself for a change at other people's situations helps ground me in something (as to TNR's point). It helps to have an example of what this or that looks like - i.e., a DA with an AP or something abusive or something secure. I tend to be visual and need things spelled out in that way. But despite that I'm pretty well connected to myself, I just don't always "get myself" in certain contexts. But can relate to choosing unhealthy like you're saying -- and yet that is also why I was perpetually confused recently about the guy I talked to online a lot b/c he struck me as someone long-term stable type but I was worried I was falling into a typical insecure trap of seeing that as boring -- only to just realize I was overriding myself and pushing to do something "healthy" as a reflexive response to the really bad relationships I've been in and the long spell of being alone and that's not a good reason to go for someone. In the meantime, I've just been working on myself - losing weight, dealing with a health issue, buying new clothes, planning to do more in-person things, expressing more warmth (rather than being cut off or in a hurry) when I'm out and about and around people. I also just pray a lot and have developed a relationship with God again and mostly see this as out of my hands if I'm doing everything I can save directly trying to meet people. The only reason I point out about the distraction of looking at other people is that I did that too I thought if I knew what was healthy versus what was unhealthy, it would guide me towards better partners….but without the internal work to heal my trauma..looping tapes, behaviors that kinda worked when I was 6, deep seated fears that even I did not know existed, people pleasing, poor boundaries etc etc…none of it really worked for me. It was like trying to change the grooves of a very worn record. There isn’t anything “wrong” or “bad” with how you are going about it…but having been there….I just wanted to provide caution. That being said,…..we all need a break from ourselves….and I like to use a hobby…..mine is shark tooth hunting. Focusing on tiny triangles in the sand or water, helps to give my brain a rest while allowing me to feel a small success with each tooth I find. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 11, 2023 22:37:26 GMT
The one thing I'll add here is working on yourself really means healing underlying trauma. These changes are great if they improve how you feel about yourself, that's part of the process too. But there is still an aspect of all this that is in an old scrambled box that is what quietly creates some of the confusion you feel. Thanks. Do you just mean healing trauma is where it's at? |
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Post by seeking on Feb 11, 2023 22:37:51 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. Super helpful. Will read through. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 11, 2023 22:42:04 GMT
I'm saying it's a whole system. Making changes to your diet, exercise, look, socializing levels, etc. will bring about improvement to your quality of life to an extent, but the confusion and patterns stem from the trauma. You'll hit a ceiling on the level of change you'll see if you're not doing anything to address all the deep down painful stuff, too, unfortunately.
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Post by seeking on Feb 12, 2023 0:26:36 GMT
I'm saying it's a whole system. Making changes to your diet, exercise, look, socializing levels, etc. will bring about improvement to your quality of life to an extent, but the confusion and patterns stem from the trauma. You'll hit a ceiling on the level of change you'll see if you're not doing anything to address all the deep down painful stuff, too, unfortunately. Oh 100%. Just because I listed those things wasn't to the exclusion of deep trauma work. I've been at it for years. I think what's happening though is that there isn't a larger context in the therapies I do so no one is talking about attachment systems. I spent 2 years in IFS therapy just trying to work on driving anxiety and getting nowhere. Thousands of dollars. Before that I spent 2 years in SE therapy and made some progress - but mostly with shock traumas-- unless you have an SE therapist who works with attachment wounding - it depends on the practitioner. It took me this long to get organized enough in my system and study these modalities deeply to realize that my PTSD is from relational wounding (and developmental and intergenerational trauma). That was my own discovery through the trainings I've done and the personal work I've done. But to have done all that and still really not understand my attachment style. ... I don't know - the closest I got was with a therapist who seemed to want to push me to be in relationship with people. And told me I was like a rescue dog. She wasn't wrong. But the guy she was pushing me to be with and told me she had a dream I married him happened to be the former best friend of my ex (who I've been discussing here). I have a healthy distrust of therapists.  But I still do the work. Each and every day. |
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Post by sunrisequest on Feb 12, 2023 1:30:14 GMT
The therapy that was most effective for me was actually kinesiology, with practitioners who are trauma informed and also versed in attachment theory. The one I see now is skilled in so many modalities... EFT, CBT, Hypnotherapy, Life coaching, attachment, aromatherapy.. and tons more. So she muscle tests me to figure out where I'm holding stress in my body, and which emotions are blocking me... and often what age I was when that emotion first became a block, and then she muscle tests to see which modality will best shift it... we do talk therapy a lot too... they get invested in me as a person, give me hugs etc, show real care and are very nurturing and supportive. But there's good boundaries too... they never tell me what to do. I've had some major life shifts as a result of this therapy specifically. So many breakthrough sessions where I had those big A-ha moments, and came away just feeling calm and balanced. But I know it's not for everyone.
It can be so hard and frustrating when you pump loads of money into a specific therapy and it doesn't appear to make the difference you're hoping for. I've had a fair few of those, too. It's hard to know whether you'll see a difference unless you forge ahead for a certain amount of time... I'm sure all of them help in some small way, but maybe there's just a big backlog to shift, or it's just finding another angle to come at it from... Sending lots of good wishes for your journey of healing x
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 12, 2023 1:59:11 GMT
I was very fortunate to find a therapist who practices SE but is also an expert into attachment wounding. I will add however, that without the SSRI am currently taking, I am not sure if I would have made as many breakthroughs.
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Post by mrob on Feb 12, 2023 14:25:32 GMT
I'm saying it's a whole system. Making changes to your diet, exercise, look, socializing levels, etc. will bring about improvement to your quality of life to an extent, but the confusion and patterns stem from the trauma. You'll hit a ceiling on the level of change you'll see if you're not doing anything to address all the deep down painful stuff, too, unfortunately. That’s my experience as well. I also had years, and thousands of dollars I spent with therapists at every escalation of my longest, most successful relationship. Buying a house - months of therapy. Getting married - months of therapy. Having our daughter, therapy. Finally after having an affair years later, therapy. All FA stuff as a relationship gets real, I feel terrified and various stages of fully engulfed and absolutely trapped. Not once did I hear this stuff. Different therapists. All I did was talk the same stuff over and again. They tried, but just no. I hear about attachment theory in desperation and (not pleasant but) click! |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 12, 2023 16:29:55 GMT
I'm saying it's a whole system. Making changes to your diet, exercise, look, socializing levels, etc. will bring about improvement to your quality of life to an extent, but the confusion and patterns stem from the trauma. You'll hit a ceiling on the level of change you'll see if you're not doing anything to address all the deep down painful stuff, too, unfortunately. That’s my experience as well. I also had years, and thousands of dollars I spent with therapists at every escalation of my longest, most successful relationship. Buying a house - months of therapy. Getting married - months of therapy. Having our daughter, therapy. Finally after having an affair years later, therapy. All FA stuff as a relationship gets real, I feel terrified and various stages of fully engulfed and absolutely trapped. Not once did I hear this stuff. Different therapists. All I did was talk the same stuff over and again. They tried, but just no. I hear about attachment theory in desperation and (not pleasant but) click! If it makes any difference… my prior therapist was well versed in attachment theory…..but I wasn’t ready to really address my issues. I kept talking about my boyfriends and trying to figure them out or trying to win them back. So I spent a lot of money still trapped in my same old attachment wounding. Have you looked into SE therapy? |
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Post by seeking on Feb 12, 2023 17:22:18 GMT
So just posting an update.
Last night, I started watching a new series with my daughter. One that has less drama - and even though the last one we watched was really good, it stirred up a lot of grief, loss, regrets -- almost a shock feeling. Like how did I get here? How did I let all this happen?
I wasn't even sleeping well and I'm sick. So I was pretty run down.
And pretty gloomy about everything. And sick of this heavy blanket I regularly feel -- the PTSD is a mixture of hypervigilance (am I safe? will I be okay - anxiety, intrusive thoughts, heart racing if I get a text from someone) and like a feeling that I'm not longer really here, just going through motions -- that it's not safe to feel anything. And sort of a shoved down anger and unfairness and bewilderment -- which is kind of what I've been writing about here - like how does life work like this?
But I felt this shift. I felt an old side of myself coming back - the old me - pre-PTSD who used to be adventurous and hopeful and pretty irresponsible in many ways, a dreamer - but soft and gentle and sensitive.
I thought about what all of you shared - about not focusing on my ex or others in relationships (although I still do want it to make some sense) and what a friend of mine shared last night who I was messaging with -- about how just because he's having babies or in a relationship doesn't really mean a lot - he hasn't changed, etc. And that we're doing the work and that could mean we may end up in a good situation with something healthy. Which of course would make sense - but since none of it has made sense, I don't know. I don't really hang my hat on that. I just know I still need to work at understanding what happened, processing it, and then letting it go as best as I can.
I do know this -- if I hadn't been as hurt as I was by him. If he hadn't ended up with someone else where there is no chance of us ever doing this again -- things would probably still be dramatic and dysregulated. I see myself like an addict and I needed to hit rock bottom. Thankfully I had some astrology that helped me hit rock bottom for sure. But it changed me, and it woke me up in ways that I suppose for my own evolution I needed.
But I definitely feel something shifting. For the first time in a long time.
I will also say I think I regularly deal with a lot of anxiety - like today I woke up and while I'm still run down from being sick, I have these fears - I thought my ex was coming here today to see our daughter and no word from him. Watching her realize he's not coming again makes me insane. Getting an email from my dad that I know he expects a response to and a friend who needs me right now b/c her son is in crises. All of it, I have anxiety about - I just don't have the capacity for any of it.
This is also interesting to me - but being sick, I've had no one offer to help. I isolate. My mom is very forgetful nowadays but she hasn't even called me. She calls my daughter and my daughter told her I was sick and she said "hope she feels better." But I see some avoidance in me here. Like if I ask for something, I'll owe someone something and I don't have the capacity to "return a favor." And I'm even afraid to talk to anyone right now b/c they always end up putting a demand on me. So I end up just closing off and shutting down and isolating and taking care of myself which feels WAY more comfortable then trying to rely on someone else. And leads to a lot of what I see as FA behavior. I think I used to have more the AP-style demand - and now I have more FA-style shut down. Not sure if that makes sense.
But just wanted to say thank you all for the support. I wrote about this in another thread this morning, but last night as I was going to bed, I felt myself surrounded by a tribe - as if I'm going through some initiation and with that support, it felt safe enough to connect again with myself. Really grateful about that. Thanks for reading.
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But I still do the work. Each and every day.