|
|
Post by mrob on Feb 13, 2023 14:15:55 GMT
You’re going alright, seeking. And your friend is right. This is big stuff you’re going through. I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn saying that I think we’ve all been through the waking up process. It’s tough. There have been times I’ve regressed then gone forward. Halting progress. I had a ton of grief linked with a realisation that what I thought was the truth wasn’t. It was both disconcerting and freeing. A very weird feeling. I was here lots, and the trail runs throughout my posts. This is the ride of your life. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 13, 2023 15:15:37 GMT
You’re going alright, seeking . And your friend is right. This is big stuff you’re going through. I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn saying that I think we’ve all been through the waking up process. It’s tough. There have been times I’ve regressed then gone forward. Halting progress. I had a ton of grief linked with a realisation that what I thought was the truth wasn’t. It was both disconcerting and freeing. A very weird feeling. I was here lots, and the trail runs throughout my posts. This is the ride of your life. Yep….and I am going through some stuff right now because of B’s death and unprocessed feelings regarding grief. Just remind yourself that you are doing the best you can with the information and tools you have now. Other then revisiting your past to understand well grooved patterns of behavior, don’t judge your past actions on who you are now….because you were at a different point in your awareness then.🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 13, 2023 21:28:25 GMT
You’re going alright, seeking . And your friend is right. This is big stuff you’re going through. I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn saying that I think we’ve all been through the waking up process. It’s tough. There have been times I’ve regressed then gone forward. Halting progress. I had a ton of grief linked with a realisation that what I thought was the truth wasn’t. It was both disconcerting and freeing. A very weird feeling. I was here lots, and the trail runs throughout my posts. This is the ride of your life. Thanks, Mrob. I've been through some rides in my life. But finally I think I've found a therapist who can hold some space. It's not even that, he's very structured and spot on in his observations and that has helped me tremendously. He names things in ways that make me go "OH!" and then I can see a cascade of things that were all jammed up in my confusion. So it's like we're doing this slow work (esp slow now that I can only afford 2x a month) (but in some ways it's good b/c it gives me more time to practice and process) to untangle years and years of stuff. I wasted a lot of our sessions telling him I JUST wanted to work with a specific issue -- haha. As if that specific issue isn't attached to a lifetime of stuff. Anyway, back to the original subject of this post! More to come. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 13, 2023 21:36:09 GMT
So I had a therapy session today and let my therapist know that I would like to start talking about the "elephant in the room" which is my past (possible) history of abusive relationships, in particular my ex, and the stuff that went on there (until 2020) and how I never processed any of it.
But that I don't want to bulldoze over the work we're doing now. He's very very good at keeping things contained like this and helping me sort out how to focus on what I want to work on.
Today I told him some of my current situations with boundaries and how proud I was of one I had and another one that is ongoing but all the ways that I overfunction. He said something so helpful about the overfunctioning coming from childhood -- possibly neglect. I don't know if I was neglected. I mostly didn't have support or emotional connection but I had other needs met. It's like, if I don't ________________, this will happen. And for me it was abandonment. So that's pretty telling.
If I don't peform/behave a certain way/etc - I will be abandoned.
And when you stop overfunctioning, there's the truth. I just realized it with someone I talk to often. If I don't say much, they don't say much. If I don't seek them out, they don't seek me out. There's really not a connection more than the obligatory contact we have because of something we do together. And it hurt my heart. B/c the overfunctioning seems to be a bit of a chimera -
And yet there's relief. Which was nice to notice - that I'm so tired of doing it and doing other people's job of connecting. If they want to connect, they'll be here. I can trust that I will feel it. I don't have to do a song and dance to pretend it's there. I'll see the level of contact they truly want.
Terrifying. But also a relief.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 13, 2023 21:41:51 GMT
We also looked at some of my boundaries and how I tend to be this direct person - which for one my sister does not like. I know from my family that direct to them is harsh.
So I feel like a harsh person around most people. I usually state what is. Or keep things brief - I'm not going to do this. I'll do that. And it makes me feel like an inconsiderate jerk. Like no one is going to like me and I'm going to end up alone forever. Because I can't just be darn nice to people - or even sugarcoat things (I think this is a little where my neurodivergence comes in -- or maybe my Enneagram 3 that loves efficiency) - like just say it!
I described to him that often I'll call people out on dysfunction or ineffective means of doing things and it's like I'm always the one raining on the parade. No fun. This is a life-long pattern -- feeling like I'm no fun and just boring b/c I like things to make sense!
I don't know what that is. And I'm not sure if it's leading me any closer to understanding my attachment style, but I'm putting that aside for now.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 13, 2023 22:22:59 GMT
We also looked at some of my boundaries and how I tend to be this direct person - which for one my sister does not like. I know from my family that direct to them is harsh. So I feel like a harsh person around most people. I usually state what is. Or keep things brief - I'm not going to do this. I'll do that. And it makes me feel like an inconsiderate jerk. Like no one is going to like me and I'm going to end up alone forever. Because I can't just be darn nice to people - or even sugarcoat things (I think this is a little where my neurodivergence comes in -- or maybe my Enneagram 3 that loves efficiency) - like just say it! I described to him that often I'll call people out on dysfunction or ineffective means of doing things and it's like I'm always the one raining on the parade. No fun. This is a life-long pattern -- feeling like I'm no fun and just boring b/c I like things to make sense! I don't know what that is. And I'm not sure if it's leading me any closer to understanding my attachment style, but I'm putting that aside for now. It also could be your way of dealing with perceived judgements about you….when I was still dealing with so many unspoken and spoken expectations from my mom and I did not have any good boundaries to define where I ended and she began…I used to drive home and judge every single person…this person is driving too slow, that person isn’t using a signal, this person is swirling in between lanes…it was my way of dealing with my own feelings of being judged by judging others. But I was also “angry”….and anger was not an ok feeling growing up….not with a mom who was raising 3 kids and was frazzled….nope. So I never learned how to have a healthy relationship with that emotion until recently. So I would make comments to others about what they were not doing right because I had been made to feel that way and knew I could not talk to the person who I most needed to about it. My prior therapist called it ripples….like on a pond when a stone is thrown in. Just a thought. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 13, 2023 23:51:35 GMT
Oh and the other thing I forgot to mention - which relates back to overfunctioning and is really huge for me is bypassing. HUGE.
I do this everywhere all the time. I call it "knowing what I know" and acting on it. And also Not making myself wrong. All of these I'm famous for.
So when the voice comes up that says "Stop being so sensitive. Do you really need everything to go your way? He's fine. This is good enough." That's a pretty big danger-zone for me. I'm usually "exiling" a part of me that might have some good information.
I recently started an enterprise over here based on a lot of bypassing.
I nearly took a job recently but stopped b/c I saw the bypassing happening.
In situations I feel uncomfortable, I'll find ways to make myself wrong rather than try to accurately assess the situation - i.e., hey, maybe this other person is playing a role.
I stopped talking to the guy online b/c I was just right out overriding/bypassing everything about myself to go "well you wanted someone safe and no-drama, right?"
The biggest time I did it was with the father of my child. Major bypass. I did it all my life.
But now that I have more experience to counter to "I don't deserve more" essentially or "This is as good as it gets" "What more could I want" "stop being so picky" etc - like self-worth an an honoring that I'm not like everyone and I get to want what I want. It's a lot easier to stop that voice that comes in telling me to override.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 13, 2023 23:55:19 GMT
We also looked at some of my boundaries and how I tend to be this direct person - which for one my sister does not like. I know from my family that direct to them is harsh. So I feel like a harsh person around most people. I usually state what is. Or keep things brief - I'm not going to do this. I'll do that. And it makes me feel like an inconsiderate jerk. Like no one is going to like me and I'm going to end up alone forever. Because I can't just be darn nice to people - or even sugarcoat things (I think this is a little where my neurodivergence comes in -- or maybe my Enneagram 3 that loves efficiency) - like just say it! I described to him that often I'll call people out on dysfunction or ineffective means of doing things and it's like I'm always the one raining on the parade. No fun. This is a life-long pattern -- feeling like I'm no fun and just boring b/c I like things to make sense! I don't know what that is. And I'm not sure if it's leading me any closer to understanding my attachment style, but I'm putting that aside for now. It also could be your way of dealing with perceived judgements about you….when I was still dealing with so many unspoken and spoken expectations from my mom and I did not have any good boundaries to define where I ended and she began…I used to drive home and judge every single person…this person is driving too slow, that person isn’t using a signal, this person is swirling in between lanes…it was my way of dealing with my own feelings of being judged by judging others. But I was also “angry”….and anger was not an ok feeling growing up….not with a mom who was raising 3 kids and was frazzled….nope. So I never learned how to have a healthy relationship with that emotion until recently. So I would make comments to others about what they were not doing right because I had been made to feel that way and knew I could not talk to the person who I most needed to about it. My prior therapist called it ripples….like on a pond when a stone is thrown in. Just a thought. To be clear - I'm trying to advocate more for being direct and calling people out without feeling bad. Not back-peddle. It's a good skill and instinct of mine. But I used to regularly people-please, be "nice," etc. I told my therapist today it was a huge relief to me to realize I prefer people like me who say things like they are, how they feel, say things directly because I feel safer around them knowing where they stand and don't have to guess. I have clients that will lie to me just b/c they want to please me -- and they catch themselves. I don't want to lie to others or be lied to. I like when people can be honest and upfront. My point of this post was just to say that I get a lot of kick-back from my more fawning/people pleasing/codependent parts. I think this is a move toward earning secure to say "No thanks." "I don't like that." "I won't be there." and "Hey this isn't working." |
|
|
|
Post by sunrisequest on Feb 14, 2023 0:29:58 GMT
I also appreciate people who say what they mean. I have quite a few European friends who literally can't help but communicate that way, it's a cultural thing for them, and I also feel safe around that open, honest style of way of speaking. I can handle people being blunt with me, but don't like giving it back so much... My style is a very gentle direct way of speaking, but always rooted in truth.. but it can still really put some people off. My family have really struggled with it, because they don't do boundaries or face-to-face conflict conversations well, no matter how gentle they are. My family looked at me like an alien when I started saying, 'actually, no, I don't like that and don't want to do that' etc.
There is a really messy part of coming back to yourself that you can't always prepare for... when you start to advocate for yourself and stop people pleasing, it can actually feel like a very desolate, lonely time. Not only because it's confronting for you to finally be facing these old patterns and doing the work to stop them from repeating... but also because people are not used to seeing you show up in that way, and they can also become very thrown off by the 'new you'. They don't know how to be in relationship to you any more and they need time to process.
I think it's very normal for a person awakening to their stuff and re-drawing the boundaries of their lives to lose a lot of friendships and relationships. And that can feel very triggering because you think you're doing something wrong, that you're going to be abandoned even more for showing a more authentic version of yourself... but in this scenario, it can actually mean you're doing something right. When this happened for me, it took a few years for some people to come back... but they did come back and those relationships were then different. Better. More boundaried, felt much safer and like I didn't have to abandon parts of myself or hold resentment just to stay in relationship to them. And some people were gone forever. But it also left open a whole lot of space for new people, and I've filled that space with great people. I hope the same for you x
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 14, 2023 1:29:24 GMT
It also could be your way of dealing with perceived judgements about you….when I was still dealing with so many unspoken and spoken expectations from my mom and I did not have any good boundaries to define where I ended and she began…I used to drive home and judge every single person…this person is driving too slow, that person isn’t using a signal, this person is swirling in between lanes…it was my way of dealing with my own feelings of being judged by judging others. But I was also “angry”….and anger was not an ok feeling growing up….not with a mom who was raising 3 kids and was frazzled….nope. So I never learned how to have a healthy relationship with that emotion until recently. So I would make comments to others about what they were not doing right because I had been made to feel that way and knew I could not talk to the person who I most needed to about it. My prior therapist called it ripples….like on a pond when a stone is thrown in. Just a thought. To be clear - I'm trying to advocate more for being direct and calling people out without feeling bad. Not back-peddle. It's a good skill and instinct of mine. But I used to regularly people-please, be "nice," etc. I told my therapist today it was a huge relief to me to realize I prefer people like me who say things like they are, how they feel, say things directly because I feel safer around them knowing where they stand and don't have to guess. I have clients that will lie to me just b/c they want to please me -- and they catch themselves. I don't want to lie to others or be lied to. I like when people can be honest and upfront. My point of this post was just to say that I get a lot of kick-back from my more fawning/people pleasing/codependent parts. I think this is a move toward earning secure to say "No thanks." "I don't like that." "I won't be there." and "Hey this isn't working." I guess the whole “telling it like it is” threw me a bit just because that was used a bit out of context in my family. “Telling it like it is” meant no consideration for how the other person would receive it and oftentimes “telling it like it is” was very hurtful and one sided. But I now get where you are coming from and I think telling your truth…which is how I phrase it for my own reasons….is a very powerful step. Yes, it definitely is good to be around people who you do not need to guess their motives or intentions and vice versa. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 19, 2023 3:34:26 GMT
I also appreciate people who say what they mean. I have quite a few European friends who literally can't help but communicate that way, it's a cultural thing for them, and I also feel safe around that open, honest style of way of speaking. I can handle people being blunt with me, but don't like giving it back so much... My style is a very gentle direct way of speaking, but always rooted in truth.. but it can still really put some people off. My family have really struggled with it, because they don't do boundaries or face-to-face conflict conversations well, no matter how gentle they are. My family looked at me like an alien when I started saying, 'actually, no, I don't like that and don't want to do that' etc. There is a really messy part of coming back to yourself that you can't always prepare for... when you start to advocate for yourself and stop people pleasing, it can actually feel like a very desolate, lonely time. Not only because it's confronting for you to finally be facing these old patterns and doing the work to stop them from repeating... but also because people are not used to seeing you show up in that way, and they can also become very thrown off by the 'new you'. They don't know how to be in relationship to you any more and they need time to process. I think it's very normal for a person awakening to their stuff and re-drawing the boundaries of their lives to lose a lot of friendships and relationships. And that can feel very triggering because you think you're doing something wrong, that you're going to be abandoned even more for showing a more authentic version of yourself... but in this scenario, it can actually mean you're doing something right. When this happened for me, it took a few years for some people to come back... but they did come back and those relationships were then different. Better. More boundaried, felt much safer and like I didn't have to abandon parts of myself or hold resentment just to stay in relationship to them. And some people were gone forever. But it also left open a whole lot of space for new people, and I've filled that space with great people. I hope the same for you x yes, you nailed it here. For someone with abandonment issues, this has held me back so much. I've actually just had to make peace with losing friends, etc. It's been such a huge turnaround. Each day, I'm getting better and better at it. This has been really recent. I'm just showing up with how I feel and not sugar-coating or trying to imagine how the other person is feeling or spending lots of time and effort saying things the right way. And I feel WAY less avoidant as a result. Because when I'd have to go and speak up, I'd avoid and avoid and put it off. Now I'm just moving through and responding to things as they come - as much as I can. It's wild. This is really all new to me! And yes, this! I didn't have to abandon parts of myself or hold resentment just to stay in relationship to them.My therapist calls it "exiling" parts of yourself. I would do it all the time for other people, only to realize I still don't have my needs met, still don't have support in my life, still am pretty alone --- and then, at the end of the day, I don't even have myself! Glad to hear you filled the space with great people. I love it. Thank you for the support and encouragement. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 19, 2023 3:50:37 GMT
I guess the whole “telling it like it is” threw me a bit just because that was used a bit out of context in my family. “Telling it like it is” meant no consideration for how the other person would receive it and oftentimes “telling it like it is” was very hurtful and one sided. But I now get where you are coming from and I think telling your truth…which is how I phrase it for my own reasons….is a very powerful step. Yes, it definitely is good to be around people who you do not need to guess their motives or intentions and vice versa. Well, I can't say I'm great at it right now. And I may be doing this a little bit as a find a balance. I told a friend today, I'm going to show up and say what's happening for me. The other person very much has the right to say what's happening for them. Like yesterday I walked out of a doctor's office b/c she was 45 minutes late and I had another meeting - she saw me leaving and without turning said "Don't leave." And I said, "I'm going" (She and I have a history together and butt heads, but --) - so I negotiated that if she were walking in right then, I could stay. I didn't mean to be unkind but she eventually said "Do what you need to do." I really didn't need to take care of HER -- I just needed to take care of me. I went for a treatment to someone I know who a lot of my friends go to. He knows me. And I decided not to continue with what he gave me to use for treatment. Normally, I'd obsess about it a bunch. Maybe even have to ask a friend who to tell him, etc. He kept checking on me and was being really doting. And I wouldn't want to give that up and "disappointment him." I'd also want to try to control how he understand the choice I made so that he kept a good view of me. I didn't do ANY of that. I told him it wasn't working. That was it. I wasn't going to continue. Just the facts. I thanked him of course. But my decision. He's also a grown up and he gets to perceive me or the situation however he wants. Lots more like this. It's just been very freeing for me. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 19, 2023 7:21:36 GMT
I guess the whole “telling it like it is” threw me a bit just because that was used a bit out of context in my family. “Telling it like it is” meant no consideration for how the other person would receive it and oftentimes “telling it like it is” was very hurtful and one sided. But I now get where you are coming from and I think telling your truth…which is how I phrase it for my own reasons….is a very powerful step. Yes, it definitely is good to be around people who you do not need to guess their motives or intentions and vice versa. Well, I can't say I'm great at it right now. And I may be doing this a little bit as a find a balance. I told a friend today, I'm going to show up and say what's happening for me. The other person very much has the right to say what's happening for them. Like yesterday I walked out of a doctor's office b/c she was 45 minutes late and I had another meeting - she saw me leaving and without turning said "Don't leave." And I said, "I'm going" (She and I have a history together and butt heads, but --) - so I negotiated that if she were walking in right then, I could stay. I didn't mean to be unkind but she eventually said "Do what you need to do." I really didn't need to take care of HER -- I just needed to take care of me. I went for a treatment to someone I know who a lot of my friends go to. He knows me. And I decided not to continue with what he gave me to use for treatment. Normally, I'd obsess about it a bunch. Maybe even have to ask a friend who to tell him, etc. He kept checking on me and was being really doting. And I wouldn't want to give that up and "disappointment him." I'd also want to try to control how he understand the choice I made so that he kept a good view of me. I didn't do ANY of that. I told him it wasn't working. That was it. I wasn't going to continue. Just the facts. I thanked him of course. But my decision. He's also a grown up and he gets to perceive me or the situation however he wants. Lots more like this. It's just been very freeing for me. I get it…part of moving away from people pleasing is developing boundaries….I have a friend going through this right now…you can feel her boundaries a mile away….but that is because she is trying to figure “herself” out. Sometimes, as she is figuring herself out…she can get a bit brash but she is learning about what works for her.. As the “me” becomes easier…the boundaries become more flexible…although never back to people pleasing, zero boundaries. 🙂🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 19, 2023 7:31:27 GMT
The other thing I will add is being an HSP makes the process ten times more challenging as I often feel the emotions from other people. Malls are notoriously bad for me as there are a ton of stores where I feel the boredom and desperation of the staff. It is a double edged gift….very helpful in my church group to be empathetic to people in pain, but elsewhere it can feel like a burden and my boundaries can sometimes turn to walls as I try to put some distance there (although I am trying to find other, non wall ways to handle this).
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 19, 2023 15:13:07 GMT
The other thing I will add is being an HSP makes the process ten times more challenging as I often feel the emotions from other people. Malls are notoriously bad for me as there are a ton of stores where I feel the boredom and desperation of the staff. It is a double edged gift….very helpful in my church group to be empathetic to people in pain, but elsewhere it can feel like a burden and my boundaries can sometimes turn to walls as I try to put some distance there (although I am trying to find other, non wall ways to handle this). Same. What I do for a living requires compassion and presence. Recently an old friend is in a very very tough situation with her son and asked for my help but yikes. She is boundary-less and her energy can swallow me whole. It's been a whole new level of having compassion for what they're going through but not giving in to her demands on me and what feels like her "right" to my time/attention, etc. I hadn't actually talked to her in over a year b/c my style of boundary is move away eventually.... but now that she's in my space all the time, it's like master-level boundary work. Good practice.  |
|
