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Post by sunrisequest on May 29, 2023 18:37:12 GMT
Just wanted to quickly validate the influence that single parenting, particularly when you don't have family supports nearby, and you're parenting a child with autism. This is also my reality, and it's a very isolating, lonely journey at times, and it's not a natural way of living, to do this stuff alone. Regardless of attachment style, it's okay to want the support of someone else when things are this hard on an almost daily basis. I am strong and capable, happy to be by myself, I'm mostly secure, I have great friends, invest in hobbies and practices that support me mentally and physically, but it's still not enough. And even though I put so much effort into all the things that keep my healthy and connected to self and other etc etc, I'm often just peddling to keep afloat. Sometimes the days are so tough, and it creates a sense of exhaustion and fatigue that I don't think many people understand. It's too much for one person to handle for a long amount of time. And actually we do NEED the support of others to handle such big life challenges. Whether that's from a partner, a therapist or friends. But therapists and friends can only offer so much, so it makes sense that you would feel this deep desire to have this support from a partner. This desire of yours, it just is... I wonder how it would feel if you could fully accept that as a need, and not accept any other scenario. The only thing is that you don't know if that scenario is in front of you from analysing based on a hunch or criteria lists... sometimes you have to jump in and give it a go. I did not get the sense that prior posters were trying to suggest that wanting a partner to share in the load was not a need. From my view of what I read, the pause was to consider how old tapes and fears can sabotage finding a “healthy” partner by placing emphasis only on that need. Do I think it is possible to find a healthy partner? Sure….but I have seen a lot of unhealthy partnerships formed based on just wanting to fulfill the need and not having challenged one’s own capability to judge whether a partner is truly healthy. Just my two cents. Hmm.. to be honest with you, I wasn't referring to anything anyone else has said in this thread... I skim read those parts at best... but I identified a lot with what seeking was saying about her single parenting experience and how that relates to her feelings about the type of partner that she wants, and really feeling the lack of one... and just wanted to let her know that's how I felt too. I have quite a lot of single parent friends, and this is a common theme that runs between all of us, total fatigue from doing all the things on a daily basis, and a deep yearning to be supported by a partner. But I have noticed that as a the parent of a child with autism and not having anyone who can give me practical support, I have significantly less energy to give out than my single parent friends. It's really full-on at times, and I know that anyone I bring into our lives needs to be really solid and able to offer me support. Because I really do need it. No judgement intended on any other parts of this discussion. |
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Post by seeking on May 31, 2023 15:31:23 GMT
Just coming back to this after a super busy week/weekend. I see things got a little charged. mrob - feel free to say more. Also I didn't understand your last post and quotes. But that's okay. If you've left, I get it. Take care of yourself. I never really finished responding to alexandra's response to my question... but I will now and some others in a bit. Thanks everyone! |
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Post by seeking on Jun 1, 2023 2:00:51 GMT
Distrust of self: "I would think it's more the "empty" feeling or the separation anxiety or the hunger/longing for connection and to be seen? But maybe that's a result of distrust of self somehow and that's more the root?" Yes. Distrust of self is the root. It's part of why it's really tough for FA, and to an extent AP, to have a solid sense of identity. The separation anxiety and hunger for connection is usually tied to you not being properly taught to emotionally self-regulate as a child. People with unaware insecure attachment or personality disorders often can't model or teach this to their kids in a healthy way because they're just not capable of being attuned enough and outside of their own insecurities and fears enough, even though they try their best. So, sometimes they want the kids to regulate the adults. Sometimes they want to neglect the kid because they can't deal or don't know how to deal with the kid's normal human needs. And then the kid grows up unable to land their own nervous system when agitated, feeling deficient and lack and like there's a hole they can't fill, because they don't feel comfortable in themselves. Once you do apply that entire list of needs to your relationship and connection to yourself, self-soothing and emotional regulation and acceptance and identity all becomes a lot easier. Other voices in your head quiet down and you hear yourself. And then connection with others stops being about need and survival, because YOU can survive, and becomes about want instead. You want healthy interdependence with others and a support network, but you're also okay day to day with sitting with yourself for a bit when it's not available. Trusting yourself means you can be okay, even when things are tough, because you're not abandoning yourself no matter what's going on or how much it stinks. There's resilience in having a perspective like this towards yourself. Optimism instead of pessimism and waiting for the other shoe to drop, Maybe I did already respond to this.... I'd have to look back in the thread, but just picking back up here -- I agree with your first paragraph *in theory* and with some tweaks around language--for instance I don't think parents "want to neglect the kid because they can't deal." I don't think this is a conscious choice. At all. I'm conscious of it only because I've done boatloads of work and trained in modalities to help my kid (and myself) and now offer that to other parents. And, so yes, I think that regulation -- co-regulation OR self -- isn't possible with developmental trauma, which is what you're describing - early neglect, dysregulated parents, and ultimately a "ventral vagus" that does not get properly myelinated, which simply means there is not enough "parasympathetic" on board to land in -- whether someone is with them or not. (You said "unable to land in their own nervous system, and feeling deficient," but I would suggest yes, there is an actual deficiency in the autonomic nervous system - it's not a choice. It's like saying I was born without a limb and I'm feeling deficient. But there is no limb. That's real. You are deficient in a limb just like folks with generational and developmental trauma are born without adequate myelination of their ventral vagal network.... and so they live in a "false window" there is never any real regulation or really any possibility of it without BUILDING IT - from scratch. That's a hard pill to swallow, but I've learned methods for doing this -- this is the work I get done on myself (not often enough but I trade with someone), do on my daughter, and do with clients. I don't believe these folks can just find that place in them (doesn't exist) and learn behaviorally or cognitively how to go there. It's misleading and it's why people who come to me have spent 20 years and all that money and time and effort on CBT and feel they've really gotten nowhere -- I was one of them (though I do think it helped to an extent). I think what people like us do is regulate through food, sex, drugs, booze, porn, shopping, cutting -- those things give a feeling of "something other than this." That's what this nervous system knows "this" and "not this" and we get that early - as kids or early teens. Starving myself gave me lots of adrenaline and took me out of freeze and immobility. And I felt more powerful and in control. I was promiscuous but having an intimate relationship felt threatening. Developmental trauma is relational to an extent because our early caregivers couldn't/didn't regulate us (at best) (at worse, harmed us) and so other people have "threat" coupled with them-- unless they, themselves, are totally unavailable. Then that's safer. But I appreciate your answer. Because I asked a question and you answered. And I think we ultimately arrive at the same conclusion just by different means/understanding of how one got there. And possibly some of the remedies. I wish I could write more coherently right now but I'm coming here piecemeal and reading things and starting a post and coming back to it a day later... but again, I do think we are talking about ultimately disconnect from self. So I think in order to trust, we must first connect. My first time doing that was 10 years ago when my daughter was 4 and I was desperate to be a good mom and a good example. I read Pia Mellody's books and started with a therapist specializing in codependency. I remember Mellody writing about how recovery took minimum of 7 years and wanting to scream. I worked through mountains of shame. I got super sick. Landed in a hospital. (I think I was retraumatizing myself). I did so so so much work. And now I can say I'm very connected to myself. I spend time with my emotions. But trust? I feel like that is a very high-level later-in-the game thing. At least for me it has been, and that's something I'm largely still working on now. (especially around this topic). So all of this makes sense. I agree with it. And I think I have a slightly different trauma-informed perspective (like optimism v pessimism -- I believe pessimism is really hypervigilance in a traumatized nervous system, esp someone with PTSD and not a choice we can readily make if there's a lot of dysregulation still to work through). |
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Post by seeking on Jun 1, 2023 2:54:50 GMT
But this is where I think the chargey-triggery-disagreement in this thread comes in. And I'll just speak for myself. I've said it before...and this had helped me get really clear on what is my trauma-related (insecure attachment) lack and what is currently actually deficient in my living situation/life circumstances. I think for me, (and this is really largely due to all the input from others here and my work as a result of this post and being on the forum lately), I am able to differentiate these (above) and make more peace with my need for partnership based on need (or want) (I can split hairs a bit around that) to help me lighten my load. It used to really trigger and disgust me when others sought partners for practical reasons and to have a better lifestyle/house, etc. But living through it as I have for years, it really is unbearable -- and I think unnecessary? Meaning, I don't think anyone should be out there proving they are a rock and an island because they are an adult and can meet all their needs or that they are, unto themselves, satisfied without partnership. I just plain don't agree with that and think it's unrealistic at best. I'm working on my dad-wound longing. But the truth is, I may always be! I'm 51. Maybe it will take the rest of my life and always be there -- even under the best of circumstances in a healthy relationship. I don't think that's something that will ever have a neat bow tied around it and be "done" wipe my hands of it. It's just gonna be in the mix. As will my future partner's mom or lack of mom! It's wired into us - preverbal, unconscious as it may be. So while I can say I'm okay with my longing for touch, support, company, witness, companionship - but not okay with my longing to, say, have a man freely give to me (love, affection, support, etc) because that's what I wanted from my father and never got - it really doesn't make sense b/c it's all..... longing. It's all mixed in there. And I don't think longing is fundamentally unhealthy. I don't have an expectation of myself to be satisfied right now. So that's just the reality I'm living with. I know it's triggering to folks here. And I know it's not really the thing to come out and admit when you're working on attachment -- but the truth is I am going to come with a whole different set of wants and needs than someone who doesn't have a kid with autism. Or doesn't have a child who is 13. Or doesn't have a trauma history. Or whose therapist never compared them to a rescue dog. Or who doesn't have health issues as a result of trauma and stress. They all bleed into my relationships unless the relationship is formal and I'm not really being myself. So to bring this ALLLLLLL back to "the-guy-in-question" as I've come to refer to him (and clearly he's not really a question anymore but an example) --- here's an example/real life/real time. This morning, I'm triggered. I spent hours yesterday doing load after load of laundry, seeing clients. making all our allergen-free foods (juicing, blending with supplements, spacing out other supplements, etc, etc, etc) , trying to trim my dog (because I can't afford a groomer) -- took me hours, watching videos. Went to bed and had a flare of allergy stuff. Fell asleep at 1 am, got up knowing I had a full day again of meetings and clients, and had an enormous pile of dishes, and all these millions of issues to deal with - haven't paid rent yet this month, my house is unbearably (to me) in disarray and bad need of a clean, and I know I have to get my back issues addressed, but it's all overwhelming - tried two mattresses. I have to move furniture to give my daughter a new space that she wants. But I can't. She needs braces and her dad won't pay for them. He's in the hospital and has his own issues now. I have to plant the bush outside someone gave my daughter before it dies and do that tonight after work. I haven't had an eye exam in years and have a progressive eye issue. So I'm doing dishes and feeling upset, angry, sad, scared. And trying to soothe myself. I'm starting a second business which will bring in more income. I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be okay. But are these merely wants? And I should otherwise be satisfied with my life? I'm thinking medical stuff constitutes needs. And those needs are not getting met a) b/c no time b) no money for that right now. (We're talking thousands in dental work and possibly that much in body work for my spinal issue). I push it all aside, knowing I'm doing all that I possibly can. I keep thinking about my sister's kids (was there on Monday) and just how much they all have - convenience, community, friends, ease, accessibility, all medical needs met, help, child care. It blows my mind. If my sister were in my shoes, I would never advise her to be satisfied with her life and not long for things as a healthy path. It would make complete sense to me that she'd want to find a husband! Most people would! It just make sense. In most cases, two-parent, two-income households and more than 1 adult is just better on so so so many levels. And we can argue that here on and on. But for me, right now, the truth is, I need help! And I don't live in that fairytale community where everyone helps each other. Nor do I relegate all this to some failure of not meeting my adult needs or my child's needs. It's just literally impossible! What I'd be trying to do is impossible. It's not real. (And that, for me, IS healing). I used to barely be able to meet my own survival needs and that was a problem. And I still had shame around that even up until now. But a big part of my healing has been going, "Woah, look at alllll you do. Not many people secure or insecure could pull this circus of a life off." So I'm okay with that. I don't use drugs, I'm not drinking, I'm not sleeping around. I'm just a single mom who literally longs for someone to say "Need anything from the grocery store?" Which is a very different thing from paying for instacart. Or someone to go, "I'll stay here with daughter, you go to the doctor." I know that all this can be met through paying for different things - instacart, a sitter or someone to stay with my kid. Or someone to drive her somewhere so I can stay home and do the 20 other things. Or I can just do it *alllll* like I do alll day long right now. And so in the end, I agree that my original issue with "guy in question" was from a fear-based FA place. Because I am overly conscious of the place that I'm in. The survival mode of it all -- but that survival mode is not likely to end anytime soon. It's just my reality. So should I be fair to someone and wait til I'm like 65? And do I have the right to have some concerns about a guy who is tells me he spends $23 a week on groceries and really seems to be enjoying all his traveling around? (Not concerns as in - he's not a good guy - just that maybe he's not the best guy for me at this point in time.) I'd have to really pretend with him. Pretend that life is dandy here and let's go out and chat about life and I'll just push all that "other reality" over there for the time being. .... It's not happening. And that's not what I want. Single parenting dating is a whole different ballgame. I once had a guy (majorly inappropriate) ask if he could bring his kid to meet. The last guy I dated had to meet my daughter fast (I didn't tell her he and I were dating) because I couldn't afford regular child care to date him. He had to fix my bed before lying in it! He felt enormous relief having someone there. I don't think that's an insecure thing. I think that's normal, human, real. But I think the two - in my circumstances can be pretty hard to separate. I think when it comes down to it, my biggest job right now is meeting my child's needs as her (basically only) parent. And so in many ways, her needs becomes my needs. I am not expecting anyone to meet survival needs. I can pay my bills (for the most part - though it does get not pretty here and there) and feed myself, and live in a house, and I have clothes and a car. And, yes, I can see where if I were expecting that, it would be bad news. But the rest? Yeah, I will admit the biggest turn on right now would be someone who can say, "Hey take a rest, I've got this." (i.e., a couple errands, making dinner, garbage out, fix the lawnmower). I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of or to fight that reality. Most guys who have kids themselves or who have raised kids are going to get what's involved. And I'm not interested in anyone who expect me to live outside of that reality. Anyway, sorry for the lengthy responses! Or seeming over-reaction.... I'm just tired and distracted and not putting this down very concisely or eloquently. But wanted to come back here with more thoughts. And continue to appreciate the conversation. It's helped me so much. I'll come back and read other responses, etc. another time soon. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 1, 2023 4:02:29 GMT
I agree with your first paragraph *in theory* and with some tweaks around language--for instance I don't think parents "want to neglect the kid because they can't deal." I don't think this is a conscious choice. At all. I'm conscious of it only because I've done boatloads of work and trained in modalities to help my kid (and myself) and now offer that to other parents. And, so yes, I think that regulation -- co-regulation OR self -- isn't possible with developmental trauma, which is what you're describing - early neglect, dysregulated parents, and ultimately a "ventral vagus" that does not get properly myelinated, which simply means there is not enough "parasympathetic" on board to land in -- whether someone is with them or not. (You said "unable to land in their own nervous system, and feeling deficient," but I would suggest yes, there is an actual deficiency in the autonomic nervous system - it's not a choice. It's like saying I was born without a limb and I'm feeling deficient. But there is no limb. That's real. You are deficient in a limb just like folks with generational and developmental trauma are born without adequate myelination of their ventral vagal network.... and so they live in a "false window" there is never any real regulation or really any possibility of it without BUILDING IT - from scratch. That's a hard pill to swallow, but I've learned methods for doing this -- this is the work I get done on myself (not often enough but I trade with someone), do on my daughter, and do with clients. I don't believe these folks can just find that place in them (doesn't exist) and learn behaviorally or cognitively how to go there. But I appreciate your answer. Because I asked a question and you answered. And I think we ultimately arrive at the same conclusion just by different means/understanding of how one got there. And possibly some of the remedies. I'm assuming too all this is very subconscious and generally not deliberate, until a lot of awareness work has been done (if it ever happens, for some people it doesn't and they're never aware). I do not think most parents are being intentionally neglectful or dysfunctional with their kids at all, unless maybe the parents were born as psychopaths. Generally, people are trying to do the best they are capable of with the tools they have. I hear what you're saying, though. I don't totally agree with the limb part but that may be the severity of our early experiences differing and I'm neurotypical so you and I will have different processes. I don't think it's "never," all or nothing black and white, that everyone can or no one can. I had to learn "from scratch" to emotionally self-regulate and retrain my nervous system and undo the issues from early childhood, but I did feel like after I went through doing that, it was always there... the limb wasn't missing... I just was disconnected from it, didn't know how to use it, and needed to learn and practice. The 7 years probably matched my experience as well. I started dabbling in, "what in the world is wrong with all my romantic relationships?", and taking some serious note of important trends (like overwhelming attraction actually being linked to anxiety) probably around 7-ish years before everything came together. Though serious strides were made in the last 2-3 years of that period. It takes a long time to learn and internalize all that the early development dysfunction, and a long time to process and unlearn it once you get started, so several years isn't really that surprising. What's most important is it sounds you're taking strides in figuring out what's working for you. Pick through the pieces of what different people have to say and their experiences, and use what helps you and leave what doesn't or what doesn't seem applicable or correct to you to the side. |
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Post by seeking on Jun 2, 2023 1:25:36 GMT
Thanks, alexandra. The limb thing was a bad metaphor. It was late last night, and I'm tired and have a ton going on. I also just want to step back and say, as I did mention, but in case it got lost in the shuffle, that I appreciate you generally talking about the theory - I made it all personal -- which helped me understand some things. But like I said, I generally agree and also see things through that trauma-lens and with my working understanding of developmental trauma. So for this "but I did feel like after I went through doing that, it was always there... the limb wasn't missing... I just was disconnected from it, didn't know how to use it, and needed to learn and practice." Yes, I can see that. I guess we can think of this as safety. Some folks really just have no understanding of safety. Their safety is the "help" they get through something external that might feel like it regulates their very dysregulated system. There literally isn't parasympathetic ventral. It's made up. It's a "false self" - so we can say they have to learn, from scratch, to build a real self. But I don't know that it was there all along? Interesting to think about. I am taking strides. And faced a little bit of a "hit" today. So that's humbling. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like relationships are like a substance that I need to stay away from and sober. It's tricky for me. I don't know if that's an FA tactic or if I'm masquerading as FA and really AP (the "hit" today was concerning). But I agree. I take these pieces -- actually I take all of it in and sift through it -- and the self-distrust or sort of sneaky "parts" are still real. But I know for sure I've made immense progress. Thanks again for all your sane, steady feedback and input. |
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Post by seeking on Jun 2, 2023 1:32:24 GMT
BTW, alexandra - when I was talking about "longing," curious if you care to share what that suggests to you? |
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Post by seeking on Jun 2, 2023 2:47:56 GMT
It's my opinion that alexandra is approaching this as a purely insecure issue without having the understanding of being a single parent, or being able to empathize on that level. I agree that coming to a place of wanting interdependence in the situation is actually moving toward health and not insecurity. It's a limited view to just put a cookie cutter interpretation on this and I strongly disagree with it. For me, I had shame about my difficulty and toughed it out alone as avoidants do, just knuckling down and thinking I had to do it all alone and not want help because it was my burden, my fault even for picking such a terrible partner. To come to a place of believing in the reality of healthy partnership was definitely a step toward security, NOT attachment insecurity. It is growth for avoidants to want a partner and believe that it's possible and healthy and that we can find it!!! Again, alexandra speaks from an AP perspective and has a limited view. In avoidance, the right direction is the opposite direction of avoiding any kind of dependence on a partner. You can't just put an AP lens on this just because it fits a narrative. seeking I agree with you, and I am stepping away from the thread too because it's frustrating to me to see this interpreted through the AP lens as though that's it and that's all. I gotta step out but I think you are absolutely going the right direction with all this searching. Oh this is so interesting. And, yes, I can see how for someone FA and toughing it out, asking for help is a huge step toward healthy attachment and NOT coming from insecure. That really is the sum of the difference I said in about 10 gazillion words, lol. A lot of my writing was exploratory, so please excuse the length of my posts! But really I'm trying to navigate what is insecure and what is asking for help. I am not sure what truly asking for helps looks like in my situation. I really crave to understand what a healthy, secure adult would do in my shoes. I have some ideas, but I'm not so sure. And I've been better at asking for help. I think what I'm really struggling with and have been in all the recent months I've been posting here is if I'm truly avoidant. It's so confusing. I have been so darn AP at times (I think) and today a teacher called something out in me that threw me off. Anyway, if I were really AP, I doubt I would be this isolated? This long without a relationship. Oh, and I just realized you're stepping away too. Gah! Sorry to create such a gnarly thread with so much stuff. But I understand. And I think I can put this thread to rest soon and move on. I'll be back, I'm sure - lots to work with and think about. Thank you for all your support here and for getting it first-hand, as I hear that you do. |
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Post by seeking on Jun 2, 2023 2:54:49 GMT
I will just add I think having kids makes things a lot more confusing. I've never wanted a relationship as much as I have with a child. It's like it all "makes sense" to me. And maybe that is an FA statement - like there's this shared goal and life to live out with another person that makes sense. Before my daughter, I was seeking partnership to have a kid... but mostly I was happy bopping around the world traveling, reading, studying, writing, being in my own company. I did have relationships with people that "activated" a lot in my attachment system, but what that was is hard to say - they were likely pretty unavailable themselves. I think I sometimes get confused by avoidants - that there is a lack of caring or that they don't get all smashed up like I have in the past with super painful endings. There were times I literally threw myself at someone. And other when I put up major walls. None of it was particularly healthy, but I guess I would love to have some larger understanding of the root of my behavior in terms of which side I land on.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 2, 2023 4:56:05 GMT
BTW, alexandra - when I was talking about "longing," curious if you care to share what that suggests to you? It depends. Longing in a way that you lose yourself and even part of your identity to an idea(l), longing to fantasize as an escape, longing for someone to fix something for you, longing to give yourself an illusion of control where you don't have it, longing to fill a void (that may otherwise get filled with distractions to ignore the void), or longing as an insatiable need (that may not even be satiated even if you achieve it) but you can only imagine being content or happy if you get whatever it is instead of being present, is all very anxious (AP/FA) side of insecure attachment-related. Some of that kind of longing can be related to a type of dissociation coping mechanism when you (I'm using you in the general sense, not YOU specifically) couldn't get needs met earlier in life, so it provided an escape instead of being present and dwelling on all the things that made you feel bad and child-you didn't know how to fix. I think longing in regards to having some goals that you want to achieve or fulfill even if you're not there quite yet, but not in a way that's abandoning yourself or berating yourself for where you're at now -- so basically, longing from a place that isn't primarily fear-based -- is less about insecurity. It's natural for every human to want things, and to want things to be easy and stable or at least easier (no one wants to worry about not having a roof overhead or enough food for them and their family or just not being safe). It's natural for just about every human to want connection, too. We're wired to be pack animals because it makes us stronger than on an individual basis, with better survival outcomes. So it's okay to want and to at least ask for help or support, that can contribute to safety. But it can be hard for insecures to discern who the right people to "ask" are sometimes, and they may ask someone who can't or won't provide, and then at best the insecures may feel they deserve the disappointment and shouldn't have ever asked anyone to begin with, contributing to a vicious cycle of shame and fear. At worst, the person they sought help or security from hurts them. (Qualifier, I'm not saying secure people never feel fear or react to it, but they're better able to process it faster than insecures who can get stuck and possibly not process it.) I can't presume to know which longing you're feeling. I can say that in my experience, longing as an insecure is different than wanting as a secure but trusting in yourself while also having a healthy sense of boundaries between you and whoever you're having a relationship with (even if it's just platonic or familial, I'm not only speaking of romantic relationships). That wanting is not insatiable, it's not fantasy-based about how you think some ideals ought to go but you've not actually ever experienced. But to more directly actually answer your question, to me, your longing suggests both of what I've described. Some of it is based in fear and dealing with the insecure attachment issues that go way back to your parents etc., and some is practical because you do need to worry about supporting your family and how to emotionally support yourself, and it's been a lot of stress for you for a long time. Getting the insecure side sorted, so that emotional processing gets easier and decisions don't come out of survival mode and fear, has a cascading effect and makes the rest a little easier to approach. Especially since it shifts your ability to connect with other more emotionally stable people, and "like attracts like" brings you to other more secure people rather than other insecure people who can't help you because they are too deep in sorting through their own struggles and don't have the bandwidth or capacity. FA have both the anxious and avoidant sides to cope with. So you've got a whole spectrum of opinions here in this thread: me speaking with intimate knowledge of AP mindset and challenges (also contrasted with earned secure mindset), others speaking from DA / secure, and others speaking from their experiences being FA. Which means if you look at everything combined, it's a damn lot, but it may also be covering all the angles that probably need to come together. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2023 13:45:35 GMT
seeking I do need to step back but yes, yes. Yes. My perspective is that you've got a decent handle on your "longing"... who the hell wouldn't long for a partner, all attachment aside. And, I recognize a lot from the avoidant playbook in you, I always have. Avoidants DO want connection, but will find themselves isolated through their own choices, getting entangled with totally unavailable people. The long distance pen pal thing with someone who repels you is pretty avoidant, and keeps it all in your head rather than 'boots on the ground'. I'd say AP if you were developing all kinds of fantasies and really upping the infatuation and fairy tale story. But nope, you're acting more like an avoidant finding fault and continually finding reasons to not go anywhere with it. Everybody is a mix of styles. anne just made but took down a fantastic post, she's got a ton of good input here about instinctive longing for partnership, adhd and perimenopause, and one good point that a woman in survival is not available for love because she's in SURVIVAL. A certain amount of safety and stability is needed to become emotionally available. So it's a complex set of conditions and influences. I personally would turn away from the AP stuff for a bit because it seems the least appropriate interpretation with single parenthood of an autistic child, neurodivergent, and perimenopausal in the mix. YES, daddy issues can persist throughout life without being the driver of all you do in relationship, it's a matter of if you're self aware and have healed to a point of having a scar instead of a gaping wound. I continue to heal in the relationship I'm in, I didn't have it all tied up with a bow either. I don't believe you've got to be all squared away and totally secure to get into a good relationship. Self awareness and a growth trajectory can bring you into a "good enough" relationship where there is still work to do but you do it as a team overall. There will be intensity and some conflict in ANY stressful situation (like parenting neurodivergence) and attachment security won't make it smooth, that's just the reality. It will be bumpy with a friend and lover is what it will be. It will be hard, still, with a friend and lover by your side. Security will allow you to navigate the triggers, complexities, conflict, and joys of partnership, there is room for messiness especially with neurodivergence in the mix. I think that embracing your messiness is part of healing... you're good enough right now, there's no shame in having the struggles you do. The idea of having to solve every last attachment dilemma to be ready for partnership is more fairy tale to me, than still having some struggles and opening to intimacy in that place. You learn as you go. Both partners are going to have scars and tender spots to reveal to each other, and then you learn how to meet the other where they are. The struggles are part of building a relationship, it just takes enough self awareness to know if you're with a partner who can move through it constructively, in a way that brings recognizable growth and increased intimacy rather than looping in some dysfunctional cycle. A neurodivergent will likely never have it as "wrapped up" as a neurotypical, and that is absolutely okay.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2023 14:27:43 GMT
One more thing, as a (primarily) avoidant attached I used to greatly fear I was AP for feeling any need at all. Normal, secure interdependence felt needy and inappropriate to me, and I have felt shame about admitting needs I have... until I got more comfortable because of positive outcomes resulting from my vulnerability.
You may never figure out what's anxious and what's avoidant in you. I'm still not clear myself but it doesn't matter because I can see where something is off and make changes, move in a healthier direction, even without understanding every facet. I think you're doing great and it's all progress. Life's messy.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 2, 2023 22:30:19 GMT
seeking I think I identify with what you said about wanting a partner because of kids. I'm pretty happy and content on my own doing my own thing. But I can feel my clock ticking, and then I'm like oh but I want a kid and then the only way I can see to do that (because of a lack of family) is to do that with a partner. So it drastically changes the type of partner I want. I have been trying to examine lately my desire to do my own thing. Because I think it's probably the avoidant part of me that goes "this is better and easier".
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Post by seeking on Jul 13, 2023 11:24:15 GMT
Hi Everyone - it's been a minute. I don't know what happened. I think I both shut down a bit and life took over and got pretty stressful for a while, as it's apt to do. Gonna catch up here. Feels like so much has changed. Not like on the relationship front but just internally from where I was even 5-6 weeks ago last I was here.
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Post by seeking on Jul 13, 2023 13:10:54 GMT
The long distance pen pal thing with someone who repels you is pretty avoidant, and keeps it all in your head rather than 'boots on the ground'. I'd say AP if you were developing all kinds of fantasies and really upping the infatuation and fairy tale story. But nope, you're acting more like an avoidant finding fault and continually finding reasons to not go anywhere with it. I know this thread is old now and triggered the heck out of everyone, so I hope it's okay to respond and post a little more here. If not, I understand completely! But just coming back to this and reading this made me LAUGH OUT LOUD! I think I have done both. Which is why I'm SOOO effing confused about my style. It's almost like I did a complete sea change and moved from complete AP to complete FA. Which doesn't make sense to me. I used to fantasize and crush so hard on guys. But then I think that part of me *shut down* and now I'm just FA. Can that happen? Late in life? I also know I've been doing hard work on not doing that (AP style stuff). So I know there's some real hard-won progress- but the switch to FA is confounding for me. |
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