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Post by alpenglow on Feb 3, 2018 22:01:49 GMT
Of course this wasn't your intention! This is just how I interpreted the implications of analysis paralysis, a bit like "oh shit, one more thing to work on, as if there wasn't enough already with attachment stuff". This gives you some insight as to how confused I am at the moment! I do appreciate your reflections, I find them super intellectually stimulating. And your support, thank you. Yeah, I can see how my empathy was somehow inhibited upon her response. The anxiety/self-doubt probably took over instead. Concretely, how could empathy have played out when she told me that she perceived me as too "needy"? I did try to acknowledge what she said and admitted that yes, I can be too intense in the beginning, and that this would probably go down to more "normal" levels after a bit (let's remember that I hadn't been intimate with a new woman for the past 5 years!). This is when I suggested that we could take things more slowly, if this would help. I remember that she thought I was taking all this in a positive way, something she appreciated (I was dying inside, but I didn't show it I guess). To which I answered that yes, what she said did hurt me a bit (rejection fear), but that I wanted to try and be constructive instead. Do I want to watch a video of the alt-right reincarnation of Hitler? Let's try!
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 3, 2018 22:14:31 GMT
Not sure what to think about the video (don't like his style), but I can see how this relates to what you wrote earlier. Projecting outwards in order to connect instead of being stuck inside your own head. Looking at people into the eyes is no bad advice at all, especially when it comes to addressing larger group!
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 3, 2018 22:22:11 GMT
Of course this wasn't your intention! This is just how I interpreted the implications of analysis paralysis, a bit like "oh shit, one more thing to work on, as if there wasn't enough already with attachment stuff". This gives you some insight as to how confused I am at the moment! I do appreciate your reflections, I find them super intellectually stimulating. And your support, thank you. You are most welcome! To be brutally honest with you, I think you were already past that point when she told you this. I haven't witnessed your interactions with the lady, ofcourse, but if I were to hazard a guess, your contact changed from how it was before you were intimate in such a way that it lessened her attraction to you. Again, I could guess at the nature of that change but I think it might be more beneficial to find your own answer here. Haha, oh, he's quite dangerous. He was even fired for sticking to his filthy scientific views. We all know science was created to keep minorities down, after all
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 3, 2018 22:30:51 GMT
I'm also convinced that I was past that point when she told me this, I agree. Your guess is correct, and fits with the reasons she gave me afterwards (I wrote about it in my first post in this thread). There was nothing I could have done at my current stage, at least with this one. Back to insecurity/anxious attachment.
Haha, ok, I have to read up on that guy!
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 3, 2018 22:51:56 GMT
I'm also convinced that I was past that point when she told me this, I agree. Your guess is correct, and fits with the reasons she gave me afterwards (I wrote about it in my first post in this thread). There was nothing I could have done at my current stage, at least with this one. Back to insecurity/anxious attachment. Haha, ok, I have to read up on that guy! Haha, sorry to other posters for derailing this thread, but this is what started it all, basically. I admire the man's restraint, if nothing else: youtu.be/O-nvNAcvUPE
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 21:58:42 GMT
Have you read Eckhart Tolle "The Power of Now" or any other books about Mindfulness? It might help you get out of the endless mind loop and just enjoy the moments as they come, i.e. focus on your date, on the surroundings, on heightened delicious sensations, etc.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 6, 2018 8:11:39 GMT
I haven't, but it's funny you mentioned it, because I heard about it a lot, and I actually purchased the ebook a few hours before you posted your comment!
Am I the only one here who struggles with being "too much in my head", and being stuck in that endless mind loop? It seems to be very common for all who suffer from anxiety and low self-esteem.
I've been doing mindfullness exercises for the past month.
Do you consider that my original question in the thread (whether to date or not given lack of self-love) a non-question because it essentially derives from thinking too much?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 10:11:27 GMT
I haven't, but it's funny you mentioned it, because I heard about it a lot, and I actually purchased the ebook a few hours before you posted your comment! Am I the only one here who struggles with being "too much in my head", and being stuck in that endless mind loop? It seems to be very common for all who suffer from anxiety and low self-esteem. I've been doing mindfullness exercises for the past month. Do you consider that my original question in the thread (whether to date or not given lack of self-love) a non-question because it essentially derives from thinking too much? Meeeeeeeeee. My friends call me loopy. I loop and loop, and I overthink everything. I don’t feel like I’m overthinking but I did read that anxious people, instead of feeling their emotions, distract themselves from it by being overly cognitive. It’s too stressful to deal with the emotions when our needs are not met, so we switch to being cognitive to think our way out and being extremely sensitive to cues around us. Hence the focus on others, instead of on ourselves.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 6, 2018 10:52:33 GMT
Hey, loopy That's right, I read this many times as well. It makes a lot of sense. Although I still don't quite grasp yet how we actually don't feel emotions. We do feel all the range of negative emotions, don't we? All the anxiety, the fear etc...but we definitely try to distract ourselves from them by overthinking our way out. Did "The Power of Now" help you in any way? Or any other mindfulness practice?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 16:56:34 GMT
I haven't, but it's funny you mentioned it, because I heard about it a lot, and I actually purchased the ebook a few hours before you posted your comment! Am I the only one here who struggles with being "too much in my head", and being stuck in that endless mind loop? It seems to be very common for all who suffer from anxiety and low self-esteem. I've been doing mindfullness exercises for the past month. Do you consider that my original question in the thread (whether to date or not given lack of self-love) a non-question because it essentially derives from thinking too much? Oh snap! I used to live in my head a lot, I still do, because of some really traumatic experiences. I still experience a lot of fear as I seem to attract a lot of narcissists, i.e. they actually approach me often, men and women. It got to the point where I'm questioning if there's something profoundly wrong with me, perhaps I'm projecting my own traits onto others, etc.? It's seriously mind-looping. My only comfort is that my loved ones from childhood, adolescence to adulthood, who have been close to me for years and years, are all wonderful and loving towards me, and I to them. They will affirm my sanity when I ask them! So it is bizarre but true, that a lot of "free" people who are looking for friends and partners out there are looking for someone to fill their void, to admire, agree with and give them all they can give, to be their fall guy, to offer up whatever they need, in a strictly one-way relationship. Like a form of slavery.They all start by love-bombing and putting you on a pedestal, and when you genuinely start caring for them, you begin to disappoint them because you are yourself human and have your own needs and boundaries. Then they start to devaluate and discard you...but when they need "supply" or "fuel" again they come hoovering as you're their old "supply". It is genuinely scary, draining and exhausting for me - I had an ex spouse, met a few dates and 3 recent female "friends" who are what I suspect to be pwNPD. This leads me to alot of extended periods trying to figure things out in my head, trying to make sense of senseless dramas, projection, gaslighting, etc. all the "crazy-making". Unfortunately, even a short-lived friendship does incur its toll on me, someone who is already aware of such dynamics. I knew about Buddhism and the simple philosophy of only able to control the present moment, as changing the past is impossible and the future holds only a potential. Reading Eckhart Tolle makes it so much clearer, and I gradually start to live more in the moment instead of in my head to solve my issues. Living wonderful moments, a minute at a time, start to snowball into positive happy memories. I'm even trying to retain the good memories of the love-bombing of the recent NPD female friends and 1 male date who has been friendzoned and kept a a safe distance. In the end, it is when you are full - brimming with enjoyment of delicious moments, simple pleasures like a walk in a pretty part of the city or the park, time spent browsing beautiful designs on the net, fun with your loved ones at a restaurant, listening to favorite music, indulging at a perfurme bar,or looking up books at the library - that you start to truly live and are able to give completely of yourself to your attractive dates, to be present for them, with your full attention and without your anxiety. Do read the book and try to follow the ways to stay mindful, and to slowly distance yourself from the habit of mind-looping.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 6, 2018 20:43:22 GMT
Which attachment style do you have, curious ? It's difficult to say if you are projecting your own traits onto others or not. I sometimes wonder about the same thing. But remember that it's a numbers game as well, the dating pool is composed of many unsecure types, including narcissists, so it may not be surprising to run into them more often than not! There are also more narcissist men than women, from what I have read. One way to avoid them is to recognize them very early on I would say. May it be your own insecurity which attracts them? You're lucky to be able to rely on those loved ones from childhood. I also have this luck, to still have (secure) friends from childhood and who accept and support me! They will either affirm my sanity or let me know when I'm going nuts I'm not a narcissist (I took a test), but as an AP, I fit partially in your description: looking for someone to fill my void, people pleasing etc, tendency to put people on a pedestal etc (I am of course trying to stop with these behaviours, but they are very automatic). Luckily it stops there. I don't discard people, I try to work things out and I always respect them. I thought narcissists were an extremely bad version of avoidant people, seemingly all very charming at first, before they turn ugly on you? Living in the moment seems to be quite an essential skill to have in order to progress! I'm not doing too badly when it comes to enjoying some of the simple moments and pleasures as you described, but when I get triggered then I can no longer do it. Fear of abandonment is usually the biggest trigger and I loose my footing. During my latest dating experience which I exposed at the the start of this thread, this is exactly what made me go from being an attractive date, living in the moment, without anxiety and with my full attention, to an insecure person very quickly. I will read the book and keep practising mindfulness!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 12:46:04 GMT
Good question, I'm trying to figure out myself. I used to think I was Secure, but I start to note that I always got myself involved romantically with Avoidants. Imagine men who cannot spend time with their partners, not even once a week. Not even on their birthdays or anniversaries. Men who cannot even talk about feelings or emotions. Conversations that are for the most part meaningless, eg did you know that they have discovered a new species of whale, etc... Not even the type of conversation you and I are having now. As perception is relative, so I thought I might be Secure, since I found that unsatisfactory. However, upon further reflection, if I were truly Secure, I would never have put up with all of that for as long as I did. I believe I am a mix of attachment styles, and probably anxious and avoidant, as I need a lot of space, perhaps more than Secures, yet I need that space while in full knowledge that my partner loves and cares for me, that we are kind, positive, contented companions and have each other's back. My problem is I don't know what that looks like! I've always had no problems attracting the opposite sex, they gravitate to me, but I wasn't attracted to most of them. I was buried in my studies or work. There must have been some Secures among them. I now notice that I stayed with men who are incapable of "love", who are mostly self-centred and who are relentless takers. This mirrors the type of childhood I had with my stepmother. I have reached a point where I'm fine if I end up alone, I've learned to be whole within myself, and not needing others to complete my life, as I do have creative interests and passions, my kids and close friends. Tht sounds very Avoidant doesn't it?
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Post by ocarina on Feb 7, 2018 12:54:19 GMT
"I believe I am a mix of attachment styles, and probably anxious and avoidant, as I need a lot of space, perhaps more than Secures, yet I need that space while in full knowledge that my partner loves and cares for me, that we are kind, positive, contented companions and have each other's back."
Yes curious - me too - doesn't seem to be a huge ask does it? This thread which focuses on being contented in ourselves seems pretty important as without that surely all attempts and being contented companions in a relationship are surely doomed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 15:52:46 GMT
Yes curious - me too - doesn't seem to be a huge ask does it? This thread which focuses on being contented in ourselves seems pretty important as without that surely all attempts and being contented companions in a relationship are surely doomed. You nailed it, ocarina. First, we must know how to fill any voids within ourselves, instead of relentlessly seeking others or outside support, materialism, etc. to fill our voids. This is where Mindfulness is such a great help, as it is about what we can actually do ourselves to make our lives better, one moment at a time. When we are no longer in the "gimme, gimme" mode, we can be secure and present for the other. However, if we become too self-sufficient, we risk becoming avoidant. So it is all about balance, and hoping that we finally meet the right partner who can fit well with us, and have each other's back. I'm so fearful that I've developed pessimism - and the more I attract avoidants and narcissists, the more pessimistic I become. My efforts are now focused on getting back to equilibrium, to fight this pessimism. I suspect that behind Avoidants lurks a Pessimist.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 7, 2018 20:22:44 GMT
Imagine men who cannot spend time with their partners, not even once a week. Not even on their birthdays or anniversaries. Men who cannot even talk about feelings or emotions. Conversations that are for the most part meaningless, eg did you know that they have discovered a new species of whale, etc... I have reached a point where I'm fine if I end up alone, I've learned to be whole within myself, and not needing others to complete my life, as I do have creative interests and passions, my kids and close friends. Tht sounds very Avoidant doesn't it? Then I really don't think I have ever truly met an avoidant, hehe. But I know of some people like those you describe! It sounds like a pretty secure attachment to me! Maybe slightly avoidant. But a good place to be at any rate! I wish I was like that, not needing others to complete my life, and just be happy on my own, alone, without anxiety.
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