|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 1, 2018 19:19:34 GMT
I've been single for four years now, and I am stuggling big time with this question. This has almost turned into a philosophical dilemma. For the past year or so, I've been testing the waters by dating again. Very recently, I met someone who seemed like a compatible woman, we had exceptional communication, good flow, felt comfortable with each other, had some common interests, physical attraction was mutual etc... After sleeping together, my confidence dropped and my anxiety came back big time. Fear of abandonment. What if I was going to lose her? And this is what happened....without doing anything conscious, she was able to pick up on my insecurity, my "neediness" and "clinginess", my people-pleasing ways. Things ended a week later when she felt that her attraction for me dropped tremendously. I decided that it was best to move on and had a very good talk with her about the whole thing. I actually made her take the attachment test and she turned out to be a secure (although slightly avoidant and quite anxious herself). She told me that my own result didn't surprise her and that she felt how I went from a confident man when she first met me to the insecure "child". She could have fallen in love with the "child" inside me, but not be sexually attracted to the same child. For that, she needed the adult and confident me. She obviously knew herself quite a lot about "inner child" stuff and said to me that the love I didn't receive as a child was lost forever, that I couldn't find/expect a girlfriend to fill up the hole inside me. This all makes a lot of sense and I agree with it. I have myself known about this for a long time now. But my insecurity seems to be as strong as ever. Over the past few years, I have only gotten better at managing "protest behaviour" and rejection better. What hurts is that my anxiety was so obvious to her, despite talking minimally about it during the dating phase. I have low self-esteem/worth, but after this episode, it's taken another hit. I feel that I am denied love, because of my perceived flaws. I can understand on a rational level that I don't have "flaws" and that I should love myself to become "whole", but it still feels like a punishment. No love as a child, and no love as an adult because of that lack of love in childhood. So now I am at the point where I wonder if I should give up dating altogether and focus exclusively on working on myself. But for how long? After four years single, I am still at the same point. Sould I keep trying, and stay single/alone until I die? There are many interesting articles about the subject if one googles it. Proponents of the "love yourself before you even date" view: www.tapping.com/articles/why-you-must-first-love-yourself.htmlwww.popsugar.com.au/love/Reasons-Love-Yourself-Before-Loving-Someone-Else-44088662Proponents of the "you don't have to (fully) love yourself first before dating" view: thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2017/04/actually-you-dont-have-to-love-yourself-perfectly-before-you-can-find-the-partner-you-deserve/thoughtcatalog.com/rania-naim/2015/12/this-is-why-you-dont-need-to-love-yourself-first-to-find-true-love/www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-fitness/201001/you-dont-need-love-yourself-firstwww.theodysseyonline.com/you-dont-have-to-love-yourself-before-loving-someone-else-didntverilymag.com/2017/04/love-yourself-first-is-bad-dating-adviceBalanced view: medium.com/personal-growth/can-you-love-someone-else-when-you-dont-love-yourself-5c21524bc91ewww.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-if-you-dont-love-yourself-you-will-not-love-others-eitherWhat do you people think about this dillemma, in light of having an anxious attachment and deep insecurities which stem from childhood? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 0:35:24 GMT
Hi alpenglow, I don’t have a lot of time so just gonna type a short reply here. Dating isn’t the issue - growing ourselves Is the key. That’s the main focus you should have. Dating might or might not help you grow yourself, depending on who your partners are and if you learnt anything from it. Every relationship has a learning point so take from it what you can and hopefully use it to grow! I dont want to give up dating while I work on myself, unless I am not ready for dating. I find dating a good learning ground! And it’s usually dating that brings out the issues most.  good luck! |
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 6:48:54 GMT
Hi alpenglow, I don’t have a lot of time so just gonna type a short reply here. Dating isn’t the issue - growing ourselves Is the key. That’s the main focus you should have. Dating might or might not help you grow yourself, depending on who your partners are and if you learnt anything from it. Every relationship has a learning point so take from it what you can and hopefully use it to grow! I dont want to give up dating while I work on myself, unless I am not ready for dating. I find dating a good learning ground! And it’s usually dating that brings out the issues most. good luck! Thanks for your reply, anxious. I can see how growing ourselves is the key. I don't question that. So yeah, dating can be seen as something secondary, depending on whether it helps you grow or not. Dating as a good learning ground! This is what I have told myself and friends lately. For it is what brings out the issues most, I can absolutely relate. But where to draw the line? My recent experience tells me that I am not ready for dating, since my insecurities can be felt so clearly (in a bad way). When do you consider yourself "not ready for dating"? |
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 6:52:03 GMT
Thanks for all the links you posted, anne12.
I haven't thought about anger in a long time. It used to be somewhat of an issue during my last long-term relationship with a secure (7 years). If it still is, I am a lot less aware of it wile being single. No triggers?
Anyway, I'll watch what you suggested!
No doubt that there is a very thin line between the past and the present for people like us.
|
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 10:16:04 GMT
Oh that type of anger, right.
I was definitely that type of child, yes. Typical ambivalent. I still react this way with my mum to this day. Well, I don't cry and don't push her away physically, but with words and emotions.
One year ago I was at her place, in the house where I grew up, in bed, very sick (Crohn's disease, I had just spent one week at the hospital). I was so low physically and mentally that I needed her comfort, like when I was a child. She didn't really give me the comfort I needed (like in the past) and I could feel anger for not having my needs met and her inconsistency.
I've been in therapy for many years btw.
|
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 12:20:30 GMT
Yes, I think so, too.
But isn't that what most insecure people need to do? (both anxious and avoidants).
Some time ago, I did some work with Susanne Andersson's book, "Taming Your Outer Child".
I looked at Diana Poole Heller's website. Not so much information there, beside links to some classes.
I had come across that Somatic therapy thing before. It sounds a bit too spiritual/esoteric to my taste...I'm more the rational/science type.
After watching Stan Tatkin and Diane Poole Heller's video, I was left with even more questions. It didn't make too much sense to me, failed to see their point.
I had however heard about the "Wired for Love" book before.
|
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 12:28:48 GMT
By the way I find that it was very sweet of your mother to let her 37 year old son stay at her place! Sorry you got sick. Look at video no 2 in then general box. That was quite circumstancial. I was visiting for the Christmas holidays, already sick, and got even worse during my stay. I'm a European expat living in a different European country, so I don't see her very often. So for sure she's happy to have me home when this happens. She's been living by herself since my emotionally abusive alcoholic father died when I was 9. That can explain a lot of things. I had to be the "adult" when they were fighting. My fear of abandonment started then. Neither of the two was really there for me. Video no 2 on Diana Poole Heller's website? |
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 12:49:00 GMT
I finally found the video. You meant the thread you started in the general discussion part of this forum. Wasn't easy to understand what you meant  54 mins long. I'll save it for later! Are you an anxious type? Don't you have a similar childhood history? Hello there, fellow European  |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 2, 2018 18:51:42 GMT
I think dating can help you to love yourself more with the right person but with the wrong person it can cause terrible pain and toxicity.
If you have low self esteem I think you pick the wrong people and also date for validation rather than meaningful connection.
|
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 2, 2018 21:08:53 GMT
Thanks for your feedback, Yasmin.
I absolutely do not want to date the wrong person, this is why I have become quite obsessed about finding out a date's attachment style as soon as possible.
And I've actually become pretty good at guessing very quickly. I do not seem to attract many avoidants (and when I do, I run for the hills), and I believe that I must appear pretty secure at first.
But I still have low self-esteem and must unconsciously still date for validation....even though I also do it for meaningful connection.
This woman and I had a very good connection, honest about our needs and wants from day one, and we both had excellent communication skills. She actually told me that this was one of my greatest assets and that it is not someting easy to come by.
But my insecurity was a deal breaker for her, unfortunately (also because she had dealt with anxious people before, and this gave her bad memories/associations).
So anyway, I am no longer at the point where I attract the wrong kind of people, I do attract the secure ones, but my anxiety/neediness does seem to turn them off...
One could say that the "right" type of person would be a very patient secure one. But I still have a lot of self-work to do. Hence the question as to whether I should be dating at all?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaeger on Feb 3, 2018 20:07:49 GMT
Thanks for your feedback, Yasmin. I absolutely do not want to date the wrong person, this is why I have become quite obsessed about finding out a date's attachment style as soon as possible. And I've actually become pretty good at guessing very quickly. I do not seem to attract many avoidants (and when I do, I run for the hills), and I believe that I must appear pretty secure at first. But I still have low self-esteem and must unconsciously still date for validation....even though I also do it for meaningful connection. This woman and I had a very good connection, honest about our needs and wants from day one, and we both had excellent communication skills. She actually told me that this was one of my greatest assets and that it is not someting easy to come by. But my insecurity was a deal breaker for her, unfortunately (also because she had dealt with anxious people before, and this gave her bad memories/associations). So anyway, I am no longer at the point where I attract the wrong kind of people, I do attract the secure ones, but my anxiety/neediness does seem to turn them off... One could say that the "right" type of person would be a very patient secure one. But I still have a lot of self-work to do. Hence the question as to whether I should be dating at all? More than any attachment style, I think that 'analysis paralysis' might be an issue for you. Staying inside your head and mentally amplifying the risks to yourself when taking action is a very effective way of allowing yourself not to take the step of actually connecting or giving yourself an easy out at the first sign of incompatibility. That strategy, to my mind, is very unlikely to lead to actual happiness. Strong relationships become so through navigating through adversity as a result of a conscious choice to do so by both parties. It's not until the adversity or need to change comes up that you can reliably see how someone will react. |
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 3, 2018 20:33:47 GMT
I do suffer from analysis paralysis, there is no doubt about that. Even outside romantic relationships, with everything else. How were you able to tell? Curious.
In that particular case, that woman lost her attraction to me the day after we slept together. Due to her feeling my insecurity, according to her. She told me that it bothered her. Isn't that "adversity"? We discussed it, agreed to give each other more time/space and see where it would lead. Do you mean that I gave up too easily? ("easy out at the first sign of incompatibility"). I understand that this is something that healthy couples are good at doing. But in tje early stages of dating, how does it work if someone looses interest so quickly and early?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaeger on Feb 3, 2018 20:48:30 GMT
I do suffer from analysis paralysis, there is no doubt about that. Even outside romantic relationships, with everything else. How were you able to tell? Curious. Hard to say exactly. Reading your posts, it's something I picked up on in between the lines. It probably also has something to do with how you outline pros and cons. You're clearly thinking a lot more than feeling. And while a potential partner would likely find sentience an important factor in a relationship, feeling and articulating feeling tends to be a lot more important. It's a form of adversity, though as per my meaning, it's the adversity you get into for standing for something, for being yourself that pfogresses a relationship. The problem with insecurity is that it doesn't let you be yourself OR let you focus on who you're with. In that situation, you're so preoccupied with how you're perceived and what you can do to influence that process that there isn't really that much room for actually seeing and hearing a partner. That is what will put them off. So are you giving up too easily? Yes. But not on a potential relationship. You're giving up on you by constantly second guessing yourself and analyzing yourself to find any possible faults. That's where you lose contact with them and they will likely lose interest in you. |
|
|
|
Post by alpenglow on Feb 3, 2018 21:17:14 GMT
Yes, I can see that! Way too much thinking. I think that I also feel, but I might not know what it really is like. Most of what I feel is anxiety and pain.
This woman did appreciate that I seemed articulate, insightful, reflected and all that, but it probably is not the most important, right. Although she did say that I was good at expressing my needs, so I guess this has to do with feelings?
I can see how insecurity doesn't give enough room to be oneself, or being in the moment. I can recognize the situations where I am indeed too preoccupied with how I am perceived and what I can do to influence them. That's an interesting alternative view of explaining what might have happened (again, analysis! But after the fact...).
Can giving up on me by constantly second guessing be seen as a form of abandonment? I do analyze myself to find any possible fault all the time. When I sensed a shift in her the night after we slept together, which might have been due to my "neediness" (she told me the day after that I had been a bit "too much" physically), that's when the insecurity/anxiety resurfaced, leading to analysis ("what did I do wrong?").
There is even more to work on than I fully realised, not encouraging...
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaeger on Feb 3, 2018 21:38:40 GMT
Yes, I can see that! Way too much thinking. I think that I also feel, but I might not know what it really is like. Most of what I feel is anxiety and pain. This woman did appreciate that I seemed articulate, insightful, reflected and all that, but it probably is not the most important, right. Although she did say that I was good at expressing my needs, so I guess this has to do with feelings? I can see how insecurity doesn't give enough room to be oneself, or being in the moment. I can recognize the situations where I am indeed too preoccupied with how I am perceived and what I can do to influence them. That's an interesting alternative view of explaining what might have happened (again, analysis! But after the fact...). Can giving up on me by constantly second guessing be seen as a form of abandonment? I do analyze myself to find any possible fault all the time. When I sensed a shift in her the night after we slept together, which might have been due to my "neediness" (she told me the day after that I had been a bit "too much" physically), that's when the insecurity/anxiety resurfaced, leading to analysis ("what did I do wrong?"). There is even more to work on than I fully realised, not encouraging... Discouraging you was the last thing my post was aimed to do. You're on the right path to gaining more security (in my humble opinion), and have a lot of strengths going for you. Empathy is a useful skill, and yet you say that her response made you think about yourself. (what did I do wrong? What's not good enough about ME?) which prevented you from using that empathy to connect with her and what she was saying. Not exactly the same issue, but I think you'll find some overlap in this clip of professor Jordan Peterson (alt-right reincarnation of Hitler, as he is known in extremist left wing circles, but that's a story for another day) on social anxiety: youtu.be/_NQGQImrpx4 |
|
good luck! 
