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Post by cricket on Feb 22, 2018 20:04:12 GMT
I think it's great that you are opening up so much. Thank you for being so honest with your feelings. Do you feel like you made a lot of internal progress in that 4 years of being single? It takes as long as it takes. It's been taking me decades! Lol I totally was using relationships as bandaids too. I had no idea and when I realized it I was very sad for myself and hopeful that I now had clarity of it. Your last relationship sounds a lot like mine then. I think there's always going to be the foggy screen once in of you that won't let you fully love in ur relationships until u love urself. That screen is what was in the way of my ex. Which is his depression and inability to love. He said he just felt like something was missing , so we broke up but something is still missing from him. Regardless of he leaves someone or stays or travels it's always there. That missing piece to himself. I think that's worth being worked on rather than dating right now. On way that cuz you don't seem like a casual dater and u probably aren't ready for a serious rship. To someone w unbalanced self worth, casual dating can be brutal. I'm saying that from my own experience. But it sure does make a difference when I'm feeling good and self assured and I date, then having a little rejection here n there doesnt phase me but when I date and I'm at a low place, omg it's a nightmare on my self esteem. Plus I just end up attracting idiots. I'm on a no dating phase right now so maybe I'm biased. Haha I want to give me about 4 months to heal and do self work. And I don't want to date casually either, I have to be honest w what I want this time. Ultimately whatever you do isn't the end of the world. Date or don't date and then post it here. đ
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 20:32:52 GMT
I think it's great that you are opening up so much. Thank you for being so honest with your feelings. Do you feel like you made a lot of internal progress in that 4 years of being single? It takes as long as it takes. It's been taking me decades! Lol I totally was using relationships as bandaids too. I had no idea and when I realized it I was very sad for myself and hopeful that I now had clarity of it. Your last relationship sounds a lot like mine then. I think there's always going to be the foggy screen once in of you that won't let you fully love in ur relationships until u love urself. That screen is what was in the way of my ex. Which is his depression and inability to love. He said he just felt like something was missing , so we broke up but something is still missing from him. Regardless of he leaves someone or stays or travels it's always there. That missing piece to himself. I think that's worth being worked on rather than dating right now. On way that cuz you don't seem like a casual dater and u probably aren't ready for a serious rship. To someone w unbalanced self worth, casual dating can be brutal. I'm saying that from my own experience. But it sure does make a difference when I'm feeling good and self assured and I date, then having a little rejection here n there doesnt phase me but when I date and I'm at a low place, omg it's a nightmare on my self esteem. Plus I just end up attracting idiots. I'm on a no dating phase right now so maybe I'm biased. Haha I want to give me about 4 months to heal and do self work. And I don't want to date casually either, I have to be honest w what I want this time. Ultimately whatever you do isn't the end of the world. Date or don't date and then post it here. đ Thank you! I've got nothing to lose opening up, and I have no problem with it. Although I'm starting to feel a bit out of place on this forum now. Weren't you the one saying that progress shouldn't be measured by how it's quantified? The internal progress I have made is that I went from hating myself to mild dislike, and now there are even some parts that I like. But yeah, it takes a long time! It is a lifelong work. It takes decades for sure! Impatience and age play a role as well. How did you go about using relationships as bandaids to adopting a different attitude? I'm very curious. I see what you mean about that screen. Yes, it will probably always be there, in some degree or another. As for the missing piece in your ex, I can totally relate, same here, no matter what I do or where I am. It's the void inside, due to sub-quality parenting. But this argument can also be turned the other way around. The missing piece will be there whether I date or not. It's not going to magically disappear in isolation (romantic isolation or otherwise). I'm no a casual dater, that's right. I only want something serious. Feeling good and self assured does make a big difference while dating! Before I started feeling depressed recently because of these repeated rejections, I feel that I was dating from a pretty self assured place. Or else the woman I dated wouldn't have felt attracted to me, she even told me that I came across as quite secure. Until my insecurity took over, and she realised that this was something she could not be attracted to. So yeah, right now is not a good time to date, now that I am depressed. Not dating in general, until I experience full self love, even when I feel pretty ok with myself... I don't know....I might have to put this on hold until I die of old age. Which feels like punishment and self-imposed isolation (and I already feel isolated enough to start with). But it's great that you want to give yourself time to heal and so self work! It is surely beneficial, especially if you feel that this is what you need. ANd when you feel ready, you won't be attracting idiots at least Whatever I do wouldn't be the end of the world, right! Thanks for this reminder (this yet another lifetrap!!).
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Post by mrcamper on Feb 22, 2018 20:58:59 GMT
I think it's great that you are opening up so much. Thank you for being so honest with your feelings. Do you feel like you made a lot of internal progress in that 4 years of being single? It takes as long as it takes. It's been taking me decades! Lol I totally was using relationships as bandaids too. I had no idea and when I realized it I was very sad for myself and hopeful that I now had clarity of it. Your last relationship sounds a lot like mine then. I think there's always going to be the foggy screen once in of you that won't let you fully love in ur relationships until u love urself. That screen is what was in the way of my ex. Which is his depression and inability to love. He said he just felt like something was missing , so we broke up but something is still missing from him. Regardless of he leaves someone or stays or travels it's always there. That missing piece to himself. I think that's worth being worked on rather than dating right now. On way that cuz you don't seem like a casual dater and u probably aren't ready for a serious rship. To someone w unbalanced self worth, casual dating can be brutal. I'm saying that from my own experience. But it sure does make a difference when I'm feeling good and self assured and I date, then having a little rejection here n there doesnt phase me but when I date and I'm at a low place, omg it's a nightmare on my self esteem. Plus I just end up attracting idiots. I'm on a no dating phase right now so maybe I'm biased. Haha I want to give me about 4 months to heal and do self work. And I don't want to date casually either, I have to be honest w what I want this time. Ultimately whatever you do isn't the end of the world. Date or don't date and then post it here. đ Thank you! I've got nothing to lose opening up, and I have no problem with it. Although I'm starting to feel a bit out of place on this forum now. Weren't you the one saying that progress shouldn't be measured by how it's quantified? The internal progress I have made is that I went from hating myself to mild dislike, and now there are even some parts that I like. But yeah, it takes a long time! It is a lifelong work. It takes decades for sure! Impatience and age play a role as well. How did you go about using relationships as bandaids to adopting a different attitude? I'm very curious. I see what you mean about that screen. Yes, it will probably always be there, in some degree or another. As for the missing piece in your ex, I can totally relate, same here, no matter what I do or where I am. It's the void inside, due to sub-quality parenting. But this argument can also be turned the other way around. The missing piece will be there whether I date or not. It's not going to magically disappear in isolation (romantic isolation or otherwise). I'm no a casual dater, that's right. I only want something serious. Feeling good and self assured does make a big difference while dating! Before I started feeling depressed recently because of these repeated rejections, I feel that I was dating from a pretty self assured place. Or else the woman I dated wouldn't have felt attracted to me, she even told me that I came across as quite secure. Until my insecurity took over, and she realised that this was something she could not be attracted to. So yeah, right now is not a good time to date, now that I am depressed. Not dating in general, until I experience full self love, even when I feel pretty ok with myself... I don't know....I might have to put this on hold until I die of old age. Which feels like punishment and self-imposed isolation (and I already feel isolated enough to start with). But it's great that you want to give yourself time to heal and so self work! It is surely beneficial, especially if you feel that this is what you need. ANd when you feel ready, you won't be attracting idiots at least Whatever I do wouldn't be the end of the world, right! Thanks for this reminder (this yet another lifetrap!!). Good stuff. Really helpful and thought provoking reading. Thanks. I like the perspective from both sides, that there a hole there, something missing, some re-parenting of self needed, but also that that is always gonna be there. Work on it, be aware of it, but there is no magic fix, so accept it and communicate well with the next person you date. They can't fix it. That expectation can't be there, but to know it's there and it's been discussed is huge.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 21:16:40 GMT
Nice to hear that we can provide some intellectual entertainment with such serious and depressive talk! Thanks for saying this, because I was starting to feel that I was annoying the hell out of people here.
Right, the other person can't fix it. This is what the person I was dating told me as well. I am painfully aware of it, even if I can't always help it on an unconscious level. I believe there is a difference between a partner not being able to fix it (which is true) and giving enough space/encouragement/love to allow more rapid self-repair. This is how I understand the perspective of using relationships to permit additional healing, without going to the other extreme of expecting the partner to fix everything. At the other end of the spectrum, one is asked to do the job all alone, without any form of help. This doesn't seem realistic either. And this feels like a very condemning way of looking at things ("you're flawed, go and fix yourself before you even dare interact with people"). Not exactly an alternative filled with hope and acceptance.
At least I know that I've become a lot better with communication over the past few years, which is something that can be turned to my advantage in a potential relationship.
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Post by cricket on Feb 22, 2018 21:40:58 GMT
Alpenglow - and you will get to that self assured place again!đ don't feel out of place here.. I am enjoying the interaction. Once I saw that I used the relationship itself as a bandaid I started working on my self as a separate individual from the reship. I was married at this time. That's when I started therapy for me. By the end of the marriage he wrote me a letter saying how he saw me make such positive changes and that he knew he could have been happy with the new me.
I just started questioning why I was sooo happy in relationships and so miserable when I wasn't. My ex would often tell me how much he liked being around me because of my happy disposition. But why cpuldnt i have even an ounce of that happy feeling when we broke up? Like the pain was disproportionate to the break up. I wondered if this was normal to feel this hurt by a break up. Something that happens everyday to a bunch of people but it was crippling to me. I knew something wasn't right w that.
I may be optimistic here but I do believe you can eventually fill that missing part of yourself. Yes u can accept it as it is now and u can also know that u will not always feel that void. I listened to a man talk about his healing work. It really touched me. His guru told him we are wanting that hole from our childhood to be filled. His was his father abandonment, like me. Guru said what if You never needed your father to fill it, what if it was always supposed to come from you. What if you could love yourself the way u thought your father was supposed to. That was powerful to me. Putting the power back in our corner always feels right to me. I know we are social creatures but first we are individuals. You seem like you are making great progress tho. It's all about what we do with our time that matters.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 22:04:08 GMT
Thanks for your reply, cricket! Many thoughts after what you wrote, but I need to go to bed now. I will answer you tomorrow đ
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 23, 2018 12:27:22 GMT
Alpenglow - and you will get to that self assured place again!đ don't feel out of place here.. I am enjoying the interaction. Once I saw that I used the relationship itself as a bandaid I started working on my self as a separate individual from the reship. I was married at this time. That's when I started therapy for me. By the end of the marriage he wrote me a letter saying how he saw me make such positive changes and that he knew he could have been happy with the new me. I just started questioning why I was sooo happy in relationships and so miserable when I wasn't. My ex would often tell me how much he liked being around me because of my happy disposition. But why cpuldnt i have even an ounce of that happy feeling when we broke up? Like the pain was disproportionate to the break up. I wondered if this was normal to feel this hurt by a break up. Something that happens everyday to a bunch of people but it was crippling to me. I knew something wasn't right w that. I may be optimistic here but I do believe you can eventually fill that missing part of yourself. Yes u can accept it as it is now and u can also know that u will not always feel that void. I listened to a man talk about his healing work. It really touched me. His guru told him we are wanting that hole from our childhood to be filled. His was his father abandonment, like me. Guru said what if You never needed your father to fill it, what if it was always supposed to come from you. What if you could love yourself the way u thought your father was supposed to. That was powerful to me. Putting the power back in our corner always feels right to me. I know we are social creatures but first we are individuals. You seem like you are making great progress tho. It's all about what we do with our time that matters. Yes, I will probably get to that more self assured place again at some point It's great that you managed to start therapy while you were still in that relationship! Not many manage to do this, it's usually done after things have already crumbled. It sounds like you got much out of it, if your ex-husband managed to see such positive changes in you. Can I ask why you broke up in the end? Being very happy in relationships and miserable when you are not is probably an AP thing, but not only. I know some secures who can't be without a relationship for long. Don't you think it's a normal reaction to feel that your happy disposition was gone after you broke up? I understand that you started to ask yourself questions if you felt that the pain was disproportionate. Were you still in therapy then? I imagine that you more or less have gone back your happy self since. What made it possible? I'm quite familiar with the idea of filling up the void inside by reparenting yourself, imagining what your parents would have given us etc. It's the idea behind inner child work as well. I find the idea very seducing, but remain skeptical about how much it can actually work. People who have felt abandonment as a child don't really have any blueprint for what that sort of unconditional love looks like. We may emulate it by observing other people, I suppose this is one way of doing it, but it probably has some limits. This idea is very common in Eastern philosophy, but I find it very idealistic and almost perfectionist in nature. Beautiful in theory, and definitely something to strive and aim for, as it does put the power back in our corner, but can one really expect the same results as you would have experienced under optimal parenting? Perhaps it's a question of how "damaged" you are. If you have very very little self love, filling that missing part of yourself may not be possible in a lifetime. That's why the idea of being in a supportive relationship, AND doing the work on yourself, seems more realistic to me. It's about avoiding extreme dependent (AP) behaviour (expecting the other to meet all your needs and fix you), while avoiding the other extreme of renouncing on relationships and living in social (romantic) isolation until one is fully healed. This extreme is not such great advice for people who already are quite depressed, because I perceive it as only reinforcing the inner beliefs of not being lovable and good enough. It feels like a punition or bannishment from what social interactions can offer. It's like a sort of social discrimination. Of course, suffering from low self esteem and depression and anxiety IS a major handicap in finding love and being in a healthy relationship. But I still believe that if I found someone who was patient, encouraging and loving enough, this would create an environment in which I could face my fears and work on my distorted negative beliefs much faster and more effectively than if I were to work completely on my own, with little support, especially with the damaging idea of not being "fit for love" in the back of my mind. So it's about striking some sort of balance. Even secures need to love and feel loved, and need some reassurance from a partner. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are hundreds of millions of people in the world suffering from low self-esteem and depression. Many of them are in relationships, perhaps not healthy ones for the majority, but some of them must be pretty good. The idea of being social creatures but first individuals is debatable. It's difficult to answer, because we are both. For sure, when we are born, we are not individuals yet, it's something that needs to be learned over the years, a process which obviously can be disrupted under adverse conditions (resulting in insecure attachment, and in some cases, high anxiety and depression). I'm not sure what real progress I am really making, but at least I can see that I'm slowly thinking less in extremes as I used to Also more aware and vulnerable. Today, I didn't go to work and called in sick. I have a very good relationship with my boss who knows me pretty well, so I told her simply that I suffered from depression at the moment, that it would go over, but that I needed some time to recover. She inquired a bit (asked if I received professional help) and told me that I was a fine person, easy to like. She said that many feel the same way, only that it is stronger in me. "Hugs, and see you on Monday!".
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 23, 2018 14:39:50 GMT
Inspiration that can help your inner child work: The tv series "Parenthood" recommended by Diane Poole Heller By yourself a teddybear and sleep with it at Night Watch childerens programmes from when you were a child Remember what made you happy when you were a child and do it now Play with children Visit friends Ask your inner child what it need right now and give it to yourself (a hug, a nice meal, put a blanket on and make yourself a hot cup of choclate, go for a Walk in the Nature, go for a swing, swim in the ocean, play football, sing If you need to be toushed ask a friend for a hug or get any kind of massage I do many of these things (not everything), but it doesn't change anything. Like doing things that made me happy as a child. I replaced tree climbing and exploring with mountain climbing and traveling. Asking not be hugged would be interesting. It would be quite awkward though. I know very few people where I live who could do that.
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Post by cricket on Feb 23, 2018 17:36:29 GMT
Alpenglow It's great that you managed to start therapy while you were still in that relationship! Not many manage to do this, it's usually done after things have already crumbled. It sounds like you got much out of it, if your ex-husband managed to see such positive changes in you. Can I ask why you broke up in the end? Being very happy in relationships and miserable when you are not is probably an AP thing, but not only. I know some secures who can't be without a relationship for long. Don't you think it's a normal reaction to feel that your happy disposition was gone after you broke up? I understand that you started to ask yourself questions if you felt that the pain was disproportionate. Were you still in therapy then? I imagine that you more or less have gone back your happy self since. What made it possible? I'm quite familiar with the idea of filling up the void inside by reparenting yourself, imagining what your parents would have given us etc. It's the idea behind inner child work as well. I find the idea very seducing, but remain skeptical about how much it can actually work. People who have felt abandonment as a child don't really have any blueprint for what that sort of unconditional love looks like. We may emulate it by observing other people, I suppose this is one way of doing it, but it probably has some limits. This idea is very common in Eastern philosophy, but I find it very idealistic and almost perfectionist in nature. Beautiful in theory, and definitely something to strive and aim for, as it does put the power back in our corner, but can one really expect the same results as you would have experienced under optimal parenting? Perhaps it's a question of how "damaged" you are. If you have very very little self love, filling that missing part of yourself may not be possible in a lifetime. That's why the idea of being in a supportive relationship, AND doing the work on yourself, seems more realistic to me. It's about avoiding extreme dependent (AP) behaviour (expecting the other to meet all your needs and fix you), while avoiding the other extreme of renouncing on relationships and living in social (romantic) isolation until one is fully healed. This extreme is not such great advice for people who already are quite depressed, because I perceive it as only reinforcing the inner beliefs of not being lovable and good enough. It feels like a punition or bannishment from what social interactions can offer. It's like a sort of social discrimination. Of course, suffering from low self esteem and depression and anxiety IS a major handicap in finding love and being in a healthy relationship. But I still believe that if I found someone who was patient, encouraging and loving enough, this would create an environment in which I could face my fears and work on my distorted negative beliefs much faster and more effectively than if I were to work completely on my own, with little support, especially with the damaging idea of not being "fit for love" in the back of my mind. So it's about striking some sort of balance. Even secures need to love and feel loved, and need some reassurance from a partner. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are hundreds of millions of people in the world suffering from low self-esteem and depression. Many of them are in relationships, perhaps not healthy ones for the majority, but some of them must be pretty good. The idea of being social creatures but first individuals is debatable. It's difficult to answer, because we are both. For sure, when we are born, we are not individuals yet, it's something that needs to be learned over the years, a process which obviously can be disrupted under adverse conditions (resulting in insecure attachment, and in some cases, high anxiety and depression). I'm not sure what real progress I am really making, but at least I can see that I'm slowly thinking less in extremes as I used to Also more aware and vulnerable. Today, I didn't go to work and called in sick. I have a very good relationship with my boss who knows me pretty well, so I told her simply that I suffered from depression at the moment, that it would go over, but that I needed some time to recover. She inquired a bit (asked if I received professional help) and told me that I was a fine person, easy to like. She said that many feel the same way, only that it is stronger in me. "Hugs, and see you on Monday!". Your boss is pretty understanding and compassionate. That's great. Do some self care for you today. We broke up because too much damage had been done. After everything that happened I fell out of love. He too was part of my pattern tho. He was emotionally unavailable. He got remarried and the wife contacted me and he basically had not changed at all. I know it's normal and healthy to grieve a break up but the level I was doing it at was not healthy. If I had better self worth I would know that the person leaving is not my whole happiness walking away and it only means that relationship was not right for me and I would not obsess on why or what were his reasons, what could I have done to make him stay. All those feelings and thoughts were actually thoughts I had as a child about why my dad didn't love me and why he wasn't coming to see me. I was just acting out those moments over and over. And now I see that my dad loved me the only way he knew how. And sometimes people can care only from a distance. In my case I was much better off that my dad wasn't a part of my life. I totally feel u about thinking well hey if that emotionally messed up person has someone that loves them why can't I? And like u said it's probably not even a healthy love ,it's probably more need and codependency but still. I've talked a lot about that w my therapist. I'm moving out of that thinking because it doesn't serve me. I don't know their path or what other struggles they might have. I'm not the relationship police. I can only work on me and what are the blocks in my life that keep me from the reship I deserve. I dont want to settle for a ho hum rship either. And if one doesn't come around I believe I will be happy anyways. I just want to foster happiness in my life with no label of single or not single. I understand why you are skeptical about the reparenting yourself. If you believe your source of love comes from others then it would be really hard to implement self love. I fully believe it comes from our own being. Parents or no parents. Yes they are here to guide us and show us ways of loving but they do not give us love. They bring out the love already in us and some just aren't capable of even doing that. But it's in us none the less. That's just my belief and I totally respect your belief about it. I do hope you make peace w the fact that you didn't receive the love you deserved to be shown. You are very worthy of it.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 24, 2018 14:55:16 GMT
Your boss is pretty understanding and compassionate. That's great. Do some self care for you today. We broke up because too much damage had been done. After everything that happened I fell out of love. He too was part of my pattern tho. He was emotionally unavailable. He got remarried and the wife contacted me and he basically had not changed at all. I know it's normal and healthy to grieve a break up but the level I was doing it at was not healthy. If I had better self worth I would know that the person leaving is not my whole happiness walking away and it only means that relationship was not right for me and I would not obsess on why or what were his reasons, what could I have done to make him stay. All those feelings and thoughts were actually thoughts I had as a child about why my dad didn't love me and why he wasn't coming to see me. I was just acting out those moments over and over. And now I see that my dad loved me the only way he knew how. And sometimes people can care only from a distance. In my case I was much better off that my dad wasn't a part of my life. I totally feel u about thinking well hey if that emotionally messed up person has someone that loves them why can't I? And like u said it's probably not even a healthy love ,it's probably more need and codependency but still. I've talked a lot about that w my therapist. I'm moving out of that thinking because it doesn't serve me. I don't know their path or what other struggles they might have. I'm not the relationship police. I can only work on me and what are the blocks in my life that keep me from the reship I deserve. I dont want to settle for a ho hum rship either. And if one doesn't come around I believe I will be happy anyways. I just want to foster happiness in my life with no label of single or not single. I understand why you are skeptical about the reparenting yourself. If you believe your source of love comes from others then it would be really hard to implement self love. I fully believe it comes from our own being. Parents or no parents. Yes they are here to guide us and show us ways of loving but they do not give us love. They bring out the love already in us and some just aren't capable of even doing that. But it's in us none the less. That's just my belief and I totally respect your belief about it. I do hope you make peace w the fact that you didn't receive the love you deserved to be shown. You are very worthy of it. When the damage done in a relationship is too much much, breaking up is often the result. Often for the best when you are not compatible and there is just too much pain inside the relationship. You write that he was emotionally unavailable. Was he DA? I understand that this reminded me of the relationship you had with your dad, especially as he seemed to be avoidant himself (caring from a distance). What is your relation to your dad today? I come with the same background: emotionally and verbally abusive dad, alcoholic, and very distant. If you had had better self-worth, I see that the person leaving would not mean taking away all your happiness...this is what happens when *all* our validation and sense of worth is external. It's best not to have the line of thought "if these people can have a relationship, why not me?". I do the same thing sometimes, and it clearly creates more negative thoughts. Good thing that you managed to let go of this! Fostering happiness with no label is also a way to detach from external validation. What I don't understand is the extreme meaning of self-love. I'm not saying this is not an ideal to aim for, because it clearly reduces a lot of disappointment and pain. I just don't see how it can completely come from our own being. I just googled some stuff on external validation and found the following: "No matter what anyone else says, you know, for example, that you are loving, compassionate, hard working, and smart." Ok, fine. But how do you know that you are a loving person if you don't see people telling you one way or another that you are a loving person? Perhaps not in words, but just by the way they feel happy in your presence when you give them love. A smile, something. Isn't that some sort of external validation? Same goes with being compassionate. How do you know that you are if no one or nothing tells you that you are? Hard working/smart: same thing, you need some sort of scale or standard to judge yourself on whether you are hard working or smart. Compared to who or what? You need some external input in order to know these things. I'm just saying that we don't exist in a vacuum. It's great to lessen external validation as much as possible to lead a happier life, but I just don't think that a strict interpretation of the concept is possible. This is how I feel about self-love and the concept of "loving oneself first". Common advice is "do stuff that you enjoy, spend time with your friends while you work on yourself and look for a romantic relationship". Don't your friends validate you in some way? You wouldn't be friends if they didn't like you in return. This whole self-love things pushes individuality to an extreme level, the way I see it, which is disconnected from the reality that we are, yes, individuals, but that we can't function without interaction, and hence validation, from others. I also wish that I can one day find peace with the fact that I didn't receive the love I deserved as a child! It seems that you have managed to do so?
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 25, 2018 13:56:20 GMT
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 25, 2018 14:02:18 GMT
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 25, 2018 14:16:16 GMT
Regarding external validation, while it's not a good idea to expect total validation from others, especially in a romantic relationship, because we lose a lot of our power and it's just very tiring for the other person to consistently reassure us of our own worth, I think that this is something many of us here on this firum do in one way or another.
We ask questions, we wonder what to do in our relationships or on our own, and when we hurt, we are often validated by some very caring people who show a lot of empathy to make ourselves feel good again. In return, we feel very grateful for the help, and yes, loved professed by some. Aren't our very interactions here a form of external validation? Could we really do all this on our own, out of "self-love"? The more I think about it, the less this concept of loving oneself first makes sense to me. Self-acceptance for our perceived flaws, and working on pushing against our fears to obtain different results seems like a more sensible option to me. Feeling satisfaction for doing this kind of work and seeing results, is what gives self-esteem a boost and contributes to self-love. Self-love is the consequence, not the cause.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 15:36:04 GMT
Regarding external validation, while it's not a good idea to expect total validation from others, especially in a romantic relationship, because we lose a lot of our power and it's just very tiring for the other person to consistently reassure us of our own worth, I think that this is something many of us here on this firum do in one way or another. We ask questions, we wonder what to do in our relationships or on our own, and when we hurt, we are often validated by some very caring people who show a lot of empathy to make ourselves feel good again. In return, we feel very grateful for the help, and yes, loved professed by some. Aren't our very interactions here a form of external validation? Could we really do all this on our own, out of "self-love"? The more I think about it, the less this concept of loving oneself first makes sense to me. Self-acceptance for our perceived flaws, and working on pushing against our fears to obtain different results seems like a more sensible option to me. Feeling satisfaction for doing this kind of work and seeing results, is what gives self-esteem a boost and contributes to self-love. Self-love is the consequence, not the cause. There definitely is validation, support, learning, understanding, hope and friendship on this forum. By nature, people need other people. It has been proven that people that live in total isolation develop mental instability, so one cannot do it completely alone. I think that external factors and internal factors both contribute to self love, however I see it all as a circular process rather than cause/consequence. Self acceptance and pushing against fears are definitely part of the process.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 25, 2018 16:06:38 GMT
Regarding external validation, while it's not a good idea to expect total validation from others, especially in a romantic relationship, because we lose a lot of our power and it's just very tiring for the other person to consistently reassure us of our own worth, I think that this is something many of us here on this firum do in one way or another. We ask questions, we wonder what to do in our relationships or on our own, and when we hurt, we are often validated by some very caring people who show a lot of empathy to make ourselves feel good again. In return, we feel very grateful for the help, and yes, loved professed by some. Aren't our very interactions here a form of external validation? Could we really do all this on our own, out of "self-love"? The more I think about it, the less this concept of loving oneself first makes sense to me. Self-acceptance for our perceived flaws, and working on pushing against our fears to obtain different results seems like a more sensible option to me. Feeling satisfaction for doing this kind of work and seeing results, is what gives self-esteem a boost and contributes to self-love. Self-love is the consequence, not the cause. There definitely is validation, support, learning, understanding, hope and friendship on this forum. By nature, people need other people. It has been proven that people that live in total isolation develop mental instability, so one cannot do it completely alone. I think that external factors and internal factors both contribute to self love, however I see it all as a circular process rather than cause/consequence. Self acceptance and pushing against fears are definitely part of the process. More of a circular process perhaps, yes, as a sort of self-reinforcing feedback loop. A minimum of self-love prompts us to wish change in our lives, mostly because we want to suffer less and experience happiness more often. Seeking out information and doing introspection work is the first step. But at some point, some external help/validation/love is needed, especially for people like us who received such a deficient love template from our parents. This deficiency prevented self-validation to develop naturally, so it needs to come later. How can it be possible to create that template on your own, without some sort of external love and validation? Aren't people you meet later in life and appreciate/love you for what you are a way to develop that sense of love in yourself, by providing a much needed example? Now when it comes to romantic relationships, what is the fundamental difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship? The "love yourself first" advocates are against entering a romantic relationship as long as one still needs external validation. They don't say much about friendships, which are a source of love and validation. Friends usually don't reject us because of our lack of perceived self-love. Good partners are fundamentally good friends, plus something else. So why can we not expect partners to provide us with some validation and passive guidance through their love alone? Is the difference only a matter of degree? It can't be a question of reliance, because if anything, most people rely more on their friends than on their partners (averaged over your lifetime). Or is this because romantic relationships are a lot more about conditional love? Friends usually don't reject us because of a lack of confidence/self-esteem in ourselves.
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