|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 15, 2018 16:06:23 GMT
she acknowledges the relationship is painful and unfulfilling in her original post and i think you are justifying derailing the thread. that’s how i see it because your arguments deny her original post. she seems clear in that post that the relationship was unfulfilling. this is not helpful, to argue. i will let it be. i don’t agree with you. Okay. I don't think I derailed the thread in any way. It feels more like you've derailed it by trying to dictate to others what support they should give in what form you think is correct according to your view. All that really matters is whether Kristy finds my words helpful, and she's said pretty emphatically that she does. If she'd said otherwise, I wouldn't have posted. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 16:56:21 GMT
she acknowledges the relationship is painful and unfulfilling in her original post and i think you are justifying derailing the thread. that’s how i see it because your arguments deny her original post. she seems clear in that post that the relationship was unfulfilling. this is not helpful, to argue. i will let it be. i don’t agree with you. Okay. I don't think I derailed the thread in any way. It feels more like you've derailed it by trying to dictate to others what support they should give in what form you think is correct according to your view. All that really matters is whether Kristy finds my words helpful, and she's said pretty emphatically that she does. If she'd said otherwise, I wouldn't have posted. yasmin, i love your voice here and i am getting scrappy with you so we keep mindful. i think it all helps her and we all care but i wanted to see if we can get her some answers to her original question. its all good, i am ok with what you think of me here too. we all care about kristyrose and there is room to push the envelope for answers to a very difficult dilemma. |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 15, 2018 17:18:51 GMT
Thanks tgat.
The point here is that I DO think I was answering her original question.
Kristy asked for help seeing her own “denial” and my view of her “denial” is that she probably wasn’t in denial all that deep at all -I think he is. My view is that the majority of people in the same situation would have also been very confused and had false hope because this person acted in ways to propagate her beliefs. So maybe her “denial” isn’t the only problem. She asked for help understanding her pattern, but I think her “pattern” is to blame herself instead of seeing the other person is also to blame.
This is just MY view.
Not saying it is right but the point of posting at all is surely to give MY view. Otherwise someone else might as well come jump on my keyboard.
I went to bed and then woke up to find I'd been accused of derailing a thread and giving bad support to someone I'd actually put in a lot of time from a very busy life to try and help. In response to those accusations, I took the time to politely explain my perspectives and why I have them and why I felt my posts would be helpful, and your response was to that was to accuse me of trying to justify myself.
It all felt a little inflammatory unnecessarily. Which is why you got a curt response there.
I have a pretty thick skin, so no harm done.
It might be that I gave Kristy shitty help. I'm not God, I sure as heck don;t know how to cure and AP attachment style! I am just giving the best support I can
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 17:49:33 GMT
i was definitely challenging and stirring the pot. but it’s not coming from a bad place. i know you are confident and can definitely take it and i respect that. i knew you would stand up to it but it gets the dialog out there where we can question things . i just want to see if anyone has any answers for her original question even if they don’t think it’s the right question. from all i have read about recovering, she asked a great question. the literature supports exploring it also. so i just really hope we can set aside our opinions about this or that and answer the question. i think that respects her voice, her question. neither of us is AP and we have tools in our kit she doesn’t have. but she asked a legitimate question, i would be very interested to see if recovering AP’s can share their experience strength and wisdom with her about her pattern, to help her really get free. there is a lot of threads to analyze him. she asked to analyze her this time is all. that’s all. i think we can high five on that? like i said i love your voice even if it’s annoyed with me, i can take it too  peace! |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 15, 2018 18:22:10 GMT
I've got to ask...
How do you think stirring the pot improves the dialog? Don't you think it just derails the conversation (which is exactly what you were complaining about) and annoys everyone? I am just trying to understand what the gain is here.
Knowing I can take it seems to be a pretty poor reason to say inflammatory things to me. Members have already left the forum as a result of the stirring and drama, so that's not a positive effect on a group that's providing a benefit to people who really need it. I might be able to take it, but I'd be less likely to participate in conversations if they take this sort of direction. Just being honest there that it's not fun for me to spend a couple of hours having this kind of chat with someone online.
I am sorry you didn't feel my posts actually helped Kristy, but maybe if you try and control people's responses like this then people will just stop responding at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 18:42:58 GMT
ok, i’ll leave it at that.
|
|
|
|
Post by kristyrose on Feb 15, 2018 19:53:24 GMT
Hi everyone, I woke up to all these posts on this thread and just finished reading them all. A lot to unpack, but I will first start with gratitude. The fact that I even have people helping me sort this all out is both amazing and quite humbling to say the least. I am indeed in a lot of pain, but, this forum has been quite the lifesaver/lifeline I really need right now. When I started this thread it was because it hit me how much I let myself believe something that wasn't true and how much that ultimately caused me more pain. It was the realization that I had control to leave all along and also control to cause myself more pain. I wanted to know if other AP's had the same experience and how they dealt with it. That being said, I wholeheartedly welcome anyone to provide feedback. I know that working on myself is where I need to stay and that analyzing my ex's actions and motives could slow down the work I'm doing. At the same time, my tendency is to blame myself for all that went wrong. I do put him on a pedestal and I do feel foolish, rejected, devalued, ashamed and unloveable right now. These feelings come from a deeper darker place that my ex triggered but did not cause. What he did cause was a lot of confusion within me by doing and saying opposing things and knowingly misleading me. THAT has been really hard to understand and accept from someone whom I did trust and love at one point and thoroughly believed he would never knowingly hurt me. I thought he cared too much, but in fact he cared not at all. Imagine how painful that is? When I read stories about other FA's who showed a lot more compassion and care, it made me start to wonder just who the hell I was dealing with. I did and do feel the need to understand him as well as myself so that I do not unwittingly find the same kind of person down the road. Is he a sociopath? Maybe. I really do not know. Is he just so lost and detached that he truly meant no harm and thought that he was clear with me? Maybe. All I know is that the more I've had time to think and be on this forum and be with my pain, more questions come up for me about myself and him. yasmin is right in everything she describes about how AP's become obsessed with the person and the pain is so engulfing, that other areas of life suffer as well. She describes the experience and pain perfectly. And she is right, validation is really needed right now because I'm lost in the pain and confusion and need something to hold onto. My ex will NEVER validate any of his actions because he keeps denying them! THIS in itself makes me feel even more confused, but hearing an outside perspective really helps me see him more clearly and kick the pedestal out from under him. I'm just starting to now NOT idolize him and think he is perfect and I'm the loser he got rid of. I need the anger badly, so that I can see myself and the situation more clearly. So for that Yasmin, I cannot thank you enough. You are like the wind that blows away the fog. I need you and I need that. @tgat you are also right. I need desperately to let go of analyzing him and look only at myself and continue to understand my own actions, feelings and pain. I will definitely get that book you recommended. I really love and appreciate how you fiercely advocate for me to work on myself- I need to hear that as well because I do sometimes get lost in trying to make sense of something so crazy. My therapist often will remind me to come back to myself when I start to discuss and analyze him! You both are such strong forces and I admire how you both greatly. The fact that you take so much time out of your days to help me, brings tears to my eyes. I am so grateful for you both and I think what you both offer is so unbelievable vital to this board, especially to me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 20:45:45 GMT
one big dysfunctional family but we love ya kristyroseonward and upward! |
|
|
|
Post by Jaeger on Feb 15, 2018 20:51:10 GMT
Understandable as that sounds, I am not sure it's entirely correct. Your influence is in choosing how you allow others to treat you. Why THEY do it doesn't really change anything in that equation and focusing attention on that will lengthen the road to recovery as you alteenate between looking forward and looking back. And I think I can sum up around 2 pages of reactions by saying everyone wishes you an optimally efficient recovery process, even though opinions differ on how to achieve this.
|
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 15, 2018 21:28:04 GMT
I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, but I understand your need to understand what he did and why he did it. It might not be the healthiest need, and in an ideal world you'd be secure enough not to care, but I completely understand the way it works. I swear to God, I phoned an internet psychic for answers. Not even joking here, I was that confused and desperate for an answer that I paid money to have a psychic look into a crystal ball or whatever. More than once too. This is not reasonable behavior!
I also understand your need to get him off the pedestal and how long and complex that process is (because one phone call right and you are thinking "oh he is not that bad" all over again?). We're not the same, but I just know what helped me and it helped me a lot to acknowledge his behavior to me was actually not very nice, that he was not offering very much and that maybe it was him losing out and not me. I think part of that process for me is movement from the anxious to the more secure; because security is all about feeling like you deserve to be treated really well by the people who you are in loving relationships. Secure people just naturally know this. I think anxious people forget it totally.
Moving forward, obviously this is my first experience dating an avoidant and I'll be aware in future that dating someone like this is going to trigger me to become anxious (insane more like) and at the first sign of any behaviours which make me feel anxious I am going to walk away. I know you are strong enough to trust yourself to do the same. It doesn't mean (at least for me) that anxious can't date avoidant or FA can't date FA but I personally would not want to date an UNAWARE FA or DA again. If they have awareness of their needs and processes, or if we can negotiate and discuss both sets of needs then that's awesome - but dating someone again who did these things without really noticing how much he was hurting me or how much he was scapegoating me for his own flaws is not something I would ever do again.
I hope you know Jaeger is totally right and we all just want to help.
|
|
|
|
Post by kristyrose on Feb 15, 2018 23:43:01 GMT
I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, but I understand your need to understand what he did and why he did it. It might not be the healthiest need, and in an ideal world you'd be secure enough not to care, but I completely understand the way it works. I swear to God, I phoned an internet psychic for answers. Not even joking here, I was that confused and desperate for an answer that I paid money to have a psychic look into a crystal ball or whatever. More than once too. This is not reasonable behavior! I also understand your need to get him off the pedestal and how long and complex that process is (because one phone call right and you are thinking "oh he is not that bad" all over again?). We're not the same, but I just know what helped me and it helped me a lot to acknowledge his behavior to me was actually not very nice, that he was not offering very much and that maybe it was him losing out and not me. I think part of that process for me is movement from the anxious to the more secure; because security is all about feeling like you deserve to be treated really well by the people who you are in loving relationships. Secure people just naturally know this. I think anxious people forget it totally. Moving forward, obviously this is my first experience dating an avoidant and I'll be aware in future that dating someone like this is going to trigger me to become anxious (insane more like) and at the first sign of any behaviours which make me feel anxious I am going to walk away. I know you are strong enough to trust yourself to do the same. It doesn't mean (at least for me) that anxious can't date avoidant or FA can't date FA but I personally would not want to date an UNAWARE FA or DA again. If they have awareness of their needs and processes, or if we can negotiate and discuss both sets of needs then that's awesome - but dating someone again who did these things without really noticing how much he was hurting me or how much he was scapegoating me for his own flaws is not something I would ever do again. I hope you know Jaeger is totally right and we all just want to help. I contemplated doing the same re: psychic! I was so desperate for answers and felt so nuts! still do. I agree with both you and Jaeger, however I actually think even a secure person would want some answers in my shoes, perhaps they would just know when to say F-it! versus still wonder for a lengthier time. He reached out again today via email just responding to something I sent awhile ago about a groupon for him. It's like, why even do that? But I ignored it and am continuing on with my day. At any rate, I absolutely do know you all just want to help and I take all of your words in and use them as a reminder/helpful guide/support and it means the world to me! |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 15, 2018 23:57:17 GMT
I agree for sure, even a secure person would want answers. I definitely don't want to allow a situation to push me to that level of anxiety again. It's not a very nice way to feel.
I'm so pleased you've ignored him. I think he will ramp up contact. Have you thought about replying to say "I understand you don't want a relationship, which is fine, but I'd really appreciate it if you could give me no contact"? Not sure if this would be helpful for you, but I am terrible at ignoring people. I actually can't even ignore people I actually hate or really dislike, I still feel obligated to respond. The NC thing really does allow space for you to heal when the person is pick, pick, picking at the scar for you like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by kristyrose on Feb 16, 2018 0:03:39 GMT
I agree for sure, even a secure person would want answers. I definitely don't want to allow a situation to push me to that level of anxiety again. It's not a very nice way to feel. I'm so pleased you've ignored him. I think he will ramp up contact. Have you thought about replying to say "I understand you don't want a relationship, which is fine, but I'd really appreciate it if you could give me no contact"? Not sure if this would be helpful for you, but I am terrible at ignoring people. I actually can't even ignore people I actually hate or really dislike, I still feel obligated to respond. The NC thing really does allow space for you to heal when the person is pick, pick, picking at the scar for you like that. I am exactly like YOU in that way! I have such a hard time ignoring even people i don't like! But of course with people I don't like, I will let them know if I do not want to continue speaking. I'm very direct and open with friends and family, just not with this man for some reason. it's like I become paralyzed and i hate it! I wondered if telling him to leave me be will only increase my anxiety to some extent, so for now I'm just letting it be. I suppose if I want to be really honest with you all i will say that perhaps if i tell him not to contact me, he will actually stop and i will feel sad he isn't reaching out. |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 16, 2018 0:16:35 GMT
Ha ha, honestly, if Hitler sent me a text I'd feel rude not replying. It's just who I am, so I find it works better to openly tell people that contact with them harms me rather than ignoring or ghosting. I was the same and found it VERY tough to ask my FA to stop contacting me, for the same reason. I still harboured hope that something would change and if I stopped contact then maybe I'd be missing my chance or that maybe I'd be really sad when he didn't reach out. This was my anxiousness talking to me though, he had a lot of chances, nothing was going to change. At least not from anything I said or did.
It'd very very difficult to do. Take your time, we're here to support not to direct you into things.
|
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Feb 16, 2018 0:22:28 GMT
Maybe it helps to tell you this...
Going no contact, truly, in the sense that I KNOW he isn't going to contact me anymore felt really scary, but then once it was happenning it felt like a relief. No more wondering what mood he was in that day, no more ups and downs controlled by his actions, no more revolving around what he was thinking / feeling / wanting that day. I missed him, but I didn't miss any of those feelings.
I am FA, and I did / have detached on some level from the pain but the truth is that I was very in love with this guy - maybe more than I have ever been with anyone because he felt "like me" in a way no one else ever had and that made me feel very much like I was at home or with my right match. I really miss the way that felt. today, I felt the sadness really hit me hard and I've cried a lot about it. No desire to talk to him or reach out (what for?!) but I felt the loss in a big way today. The space and NC though has allowed me space to leave the avoidant / anxious dance for long enough to begin to care for my own wounds from this relationship.
Life is not fair sometimes...it'd be easier if people could just fall in love it it'd be okay, but that's not the way it is! It might be that this person who feels like home to me is just the last person on earth who is good for me. I think it will take a long time to unravel it all, but the NC is at least giving me the space to do that. Every time I talked to him before it was like being sucked back into it from square one.
I don't have the strength to hold my boundaries with this man, because he triggers me.
|
|
