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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 14:30:09 GMT
For the APs here that cannot stop the rumination loop, there is a good reason why most posters understand that it is actually neurally and psychologically harmful to assist someone to remain in the stuck rumination cycle, and generally, instinctively prefer to stay away. Staying in rumination means going ever deeper into a negative cycle, the proverbial digging deeper into the depressive hole, yet it feels familiar because it resonates with past memories and the neural networks connected to those memories, to the point where it becomes an integrated identity, albeit a problematic one. The mind loves the familiar and rejects the unfamiliar, so anyone who is fiercely protective of self or own boundaries could see advice towards change to reach a better, more secure place as criticism, threats or rejection of self.w
I think most of us have referred to this framework in varying forms.
It gets seriously out of hand when one fork is blocked, the ruminating person seeks other, multiple forks to resonate and amplify the rumination. Thus the issues that cause the relationship problems in one's life do not get resolved, and in fact will worsen with rumination, since rumination deepens and reinforce these very issues, leading to worse outcome in current and future relationships, leading to more woe, in a self-reinforcing feedback loop, etc. We all have our blind spot. Interacting with a forum of supportive anonymous strangers serves a great purpose - we receive quite objective feedback. Of course there will be outliers, but in general, a rather good consensus can reflect reality without the subjective "noise" of one's circle in real life. The best help when one is stuck should come from a therapist, as the fuller picture can be provided to a specialist who is trained in helping with specific issues. We are all amateurs, all of us with our issues and struggling to reach a better place ourselves, so our own insight are very much limited. However, as long as we learn, change and grow, we are on a good trajectory, whether its pace be faster or slower. It is when we choose not to break out of the negative cycle, even as we become aware of our blindspot, that it will be a never ending, ever deepening cycle. This gets reinforced as others' refusal to assist in rumination, seeing its harmful effects, is interpreted as rejection of self, and it triggers more anxiety and increased need for support of the state of rumination, which is conflated with self, and so on.
It isn't so much as DA detaching to lessen pain - it is the self-preservation instinct of everyone of all attachments styles swimming against the tide, knowing that if one doesn't move forward-upwards, there is no staying still, and one goes backwards-downwards.
It's a hard truth for those who prefer to remain in rumination, but even if this doesn't help some, it might be useful for others who come here with the same questions seeking answers.
www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/depression-management-techniques/201604/rumination-problem-in-anxiety-and-depressionthis is exactly why i told you not to pose questions to me about what your ex might be thinking, the mindreading rumination - i don't want to be involved in it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:17:10 GMT
this is exactly why i told you not to pose questions to me about what your ex might be thinking, the mindreading rumination - i don't want to be involved in it. This is an open forum, I wasn't asking you in particular, so if you do not deign to reply, please feel free to refrain, as I have, for many of these threads with a couple or no takers.
I don't understand how it is my couple of posts asking if overworking is a DA coping mechanism for pain, as per OP title, amounts to "rumination"? How about the tens of threads and hundreds of posts of ruminations of of "B"s, "D"s, "W"s, and how to get them back, what are the ways to make their ex FAs miss them, social media games, etc.? In terms of sheer size, scale and proportion of forum space, it is quite apparent.
I was subscribed here from way back, and there was a vibrant community of diverse stories and attachment styles and couplings, we all come and go, wax and wane, but there were regulars, yasmin, summer, scheme00, DearLover, kelvain, Jaegar, kristyrose, alpenglow, etc. We don't always see eye to eye but there was room for all. I honestly don't understand why many visited but no longer post. I was myself thinking of quitting but it just contributes to the impoverishment of posters, opinions and views.
There was genuine diversity of posters, so we all got a wide range of views, opinions, etc. There was no dominating force that dictates the direction of the forum, which is meant to serve the community interested in Attachment Theory in general, of various styles, stories and behavior. This wasn't an echo chamber, but a lively exchange and marketplace of ideas, and generally, patterns are discernible as they emerged from the miasma, the big mix, and it was a great resource for different visitors/posters seeking different perspectives.
I thought of a hiatus too, seeing the problem in the sudden change of the forum in a surge of members and posts justifying rumination as a "necessary" process, but it should be pointed out that it is a subjective experience, and there is literature in the psychology field about its detrimental effects on depression. The downside to rumination should be also given space in order to balance the preponderance of the pro-rumination perspective, to serve the interest of others who might be pondering a similar conundrum, to see and weigh both sides.
I hope the diversity returns, and meanwhile, we should all feel free to participate/not participate in exchanges on an open forum.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:22:54 GMT
uh, @curious , you quoted me and replied with questions about how to interpret your exDA's behavior.
i'm happy to disagree about all of it, do what you want and maybe just don't quote me with questions about mindreading your ex, i'd love that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:24:00 GMT
Um, sorry to ask but are you referring to me here curious? If so, I'm more than happy for you to call me out or message me directly if I've caused offence or upset you. I was simply trying to provide an alternate view on AP suffering - one i've been exploring theoretically and in therapy and am happy to have refuted! OP seemed to appreciate it so that's all that really matters Personally I feel there is a lot of diversity on the site - apologies if there are rules for people based on length of time on site that I'm not following. Always happy to be enlightened. Apologies if your comment wasn't directed at me - it wasn't clear. All the best! Apologies accepted.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 14, 2018 15:24:41 GMT
This thread has become really interesting...I haven't read all the responses..but I wonder if the type of trauma plays a role in whether we feel things in the body first whether we feel them via our emotions. Example..if someone experienced physical trauma...would that cause a hypersentivity of the body whereas if someone experienced emotional trauma..would that cause hypersensitivity of the emotions. I agree with flic and not alone that I feel my emotions very strongly...but only recently became aware of my body's reactions. Juniper..what an amazing insight..thank you for sharing..it has really made me think about this.❤️ Must dash as I am working..but will come back, read and respond properly later.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:24:49 GMT
@curious actually i remember there is a feature to curb our interaction, enjoy the boards if you can!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:44:08 GMT
uh, you quoted me and replied with questions about how to interpret your exDA's behavior. i'm happy to disagree about all of it, do what you want and maybe just don't quote me with questions about mindreading your ex, i'd love that. I think it will be very helpful if you can simply refrain from answering or say "I'm sorry I can't answer your question."
Feel free to do this at any time, as I have done and will do. Certainly I haven't answered many posts addressed to mine, and have answered posts not addressed to me.
I assure you under no circumstances will I bother or PM you if that were the case. That isn't my style.
It isn't helpful to refer repeatedly to "curious and her ruminations about her exDA", as by definition, rumination = repetitively going over a thought or a problem without completion, and I asked only on this one occasion if Overworking = DA coping mechanism for distress, in a thread titled Avoidant and Pain Lessening. Meanwhile, the posts about exboyfriend sighting outside, at social events, on social media, etc. are repetitive and I'm not sure to what completion.
I was told 4 times before by him that he has been working 60-70 hours a week, and it is only when he told me for the 5th time recently that I even posted a question, as I'm worried. I'd hardly call that rumination.
It used to be that a diversity of feedback, exchange and debate could be expected from different members, and a pattern/consensus can emerge. It helps to clarify thoughts and action to take upon reflection of group wisdom, and not to be perceived as targeted at anyone in particular, and not for extrapolation into tens of threads and posts, not for any particular view to dominate, and this gets catalogued as a resource for any one in future who wants the same query answered. That I believe served the interest of all members.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:47:08 GMT
This thread has become really interesting...I haven't read all the responses..but I wonder if the type of trauma plays a role in whether we feel things in the body first whether we feel them via our emotions. Example..if someone experienced physical trauma...would that cause a hypersentivity of the body whereas if someone experienced emotional trauma..would that cause hypersensitivity of the emotions. I agree with flic and not alone that I feel my emotions very strongly...but only recently became aware of my body's reactions. Juniper..what an amazing insight..thank you for sharing..it has really made me think about this.❤️ Must dash as I am working..but will come back, read and respond properly later. i can tell you that the trauma i experienced in childhood was extreme neglect and lots of emotional abuse, the witnessing of violence, also- but not physical abuse. that occured later in my late teens. it seems that the visceral response is one dismissives often experience. i remember seeing an article on jeb's site about it. and a lot of DA i know do have similar experience. my emotions we're continuously negated by my abusive parents. i think i stopped trying to have them in my heart and head but my body couldn't lie. that's what i think happened to me. mt body couldn't be silenced and screamed for a long time about what was happening to my heart and my head.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 15:55:10 GMT
@curious i will always write MY words, not yours.
open forum. and we can stop people from interacting with us, i began by telling you not to ask me questions about your ex. now we can take the next step.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 14, 2018 16:06:28 GMT
Trauma- both emotional and physical- is stored in the body.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 16:13:54 GMT
Trauma- both emotional and physical- is stored in the body. yes! i experienced a massive emotional release during compassionate bodywork by someone i trusted, just prior to a major breakthrough in healing PTSD and going to another level in my recovery from a life of trauma. it was extremely deep and to remember it makes me cry, but it was triggered by the realization that i had never felt so safe and cared for in my entire life. i wasn't triggered by remembering trauma, i was triggered to release it all because of the deep kindness and nurturing i finally experienced at the hands of a skilled body worker. so, it worked differently than i thought it would. i don't care so much about the physical abuse. it was the emotional abuse that devastated me. so experiencing its opposite made me flooded with so much emotion, finally safe to be there and do that. i got lots of support after that, because i looked for it.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 14, 2018 16:38:37 GMT
Trauma- both emotional and physical- is stored in the body. yes! i experienced a massive emotional release during compassionate bodywork by someone i trusted, just prior to a major breakthrough in healing PTSD and going to another level in my recovery from a life of trauma. it was extremely deep and to remember it makes me cry, but it was triggered by the realization that i had never felt so safe and cared for in my entire life. i wasn't triggered by remembering trauma, i was triggered to release it all because of the deep kindness and nurturing i finally experienced at the hands of a skilled body worker. so, it worked differently than i thought it would. i don't care so much about the physical abuse. it was the emotional abuse that devastated me. so experiencing its opposite made me flooded with so much emotion, finally safe to be there and do that. i got lots of support after that, because i looked for it. I am happy for you, Juniper. PTSD is by Peter Levine and Diane Poole Heller ect. explained as trauma (a part of you becomes disorganised). I sounds to me, that the bodyworker helped you out of the freeze state. Often people do not remember their trauma, but the body remembers. Or people do not know that what they expirenced had caused trauma/situational disorganised attatchment style. Often animals in the wild do not get traumatised, because the can shake it of. The polar bear on youtube shows this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 17:08:07 GMT
yes! i experienced a massive emotional release during compassionate bodywork by someone i trusted, just prior to a major breakthrough in healing PTSD and going to another level in my recovery from a life of trauma. it was extremely deep and to remember it makes me cry, but it was triggered by the realization that i had never felt so safe and cared for in my entire life. i wasn't triggered by remembering trauma, i was triggered to release it all because of the deep kindness and nurturing i finally experienced at the hands of a skilled body worker. so, it worked differently than i thought it would. i don't care so much about the physical abuse. it was the emotional abuse that devastated me. so experiencing its opposite made me flooded with so much emotion, finally safe to be there and do that. i got lots of support after that, because i looked for it. I am happy for you, Juniper. PTSD is by Peter Levine and Diane Poole Heller ect. explained as trauma (a part of you becomes disorganised). I sounds to me, that the bodyworker helped you out of the freeze state. Often people do not remember their trauma, but the body remembers. Or people do not know that what they expirenced had caused trauma/situational disorganised attatchment style. The animals do not get traumatised, because the can shake it of. The polar bear on youtube shows this. yes, i am happy for me too! my life is wonderful and beautiful to me now. breath meditation was a powerful tool also, and other things that helped me get in touch with myself. it makes so much sense why i became dismissive, as i withdrew to protect myself from extremely destabilizing psychological abuse. i can't say i regret any of it , as i feel that who i am today has been shaped in good ways by overcoming and working through all that. i think i have a special life, and a special experience, i don't mind it. there is a happy ending for me. ❤️
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Post by goldilocks on Jun 14, 2018 17:36:11 GMT
Trauma- both emotional and physical- is stored in the body. yes! i experienced a massive emotional release during compassionate bodywork by someone i trusted, just prior to a major breakthrough in healing PTSD and going to another level in my recovery from a life of trauma. it was extremely deep and to remember it makes me cry, but it was triggered by the realization that i had never felt so safe and cared for in my entire life. i wasn't triggered by remembering trauma, i was triggered to release it all because of the deep kindness and nurturing i finally experienced at the hands of a skilled body worker. so, it worked differently than i thought it would. i don't care so much about the physical abuse. it was the emotional abuse that devastated me. so experiencing its opposite made me flooded with so much emotion, finally safe to be there and do that. i got lots of support after that, because i looked for it. I have had similar experiences. Both more recently in therapy and in my twenties when doing experimental meditations. I believe healing the trauma by feeling and releasing the emotions is key to changing attachment style. What I do know is that I tested as dismissive before and as secure after I have done a variety of work on myself from several perspectives. From my point of view it felt like the concepts that I had to release where buried into tangles of emotions. Some felt like they were frozen in chunks of ice that melted with release, others felt like tangled knots of veins that had to be torn apart and were left bleeding, again others felt like a system of faulty chunks of programming or a demon attached to my body. These are all metaphores, but true on some level. We were once frozen because the pain was too great to endure. I believe one becomes DA when believing, as a baby, that one has been exposed. An exposed baby will die, but has a small chance to survive if energy is preseved until an adult comes along to save the baby that was left for dead. To heal enough to feel it all it to walk into hell and tidy it up while walking on the coals and being showered in lava so to speak. Yes, it is the most painful work, and yes it is worth your while.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 18:01:42 GMT
yes! i experienced a massive emotional release during compassionate bodywork by someone i trusted, just prior to a major breakthrough in healing PTSD and going to another level in my recovery from a life of trauma. it was extremely deep and to remember it makes me cry, but it was triggered by the realization that i had never felt so safe and cared for in my entire life. i wasn't triggered by remembering trauma, i was triggered to release it all because of the deep kindness and nurturing i finally experienced at the hands of a skilled body worker. so, it worked differently than i thought it would. i don't care so much about the physical abuse. it was the emotional abuse that devastated me. so experiencing its opposite made me flooded with so much emotion, finally safe to be there and do that. i got lots of support after that, because i looked for it. I have had similar experiences. Both more recently in therapy and in my twenties when doing experimental meditations. I believe healing the trauma by feeling and releasing the emotions is key to changing attachment style. What I do know is that I tested as dismissive before and as secure after I have done a variety of work on myself from several perspectives. From my point of view it felt like the concepts that I had to release where buried into tangles of emotions. Some felt like they were frozen in chunks of ice that melted with release, others felt like tangled knots of veins that had to be torn apart and were left bleeding, again others felt like a system of faulty chunks of programming or a demon attached to my body. These are all metaphores, but true on some level. We were once frozen because the pain was too great to endure. I believe one becomes DA when believing, as a baby, that one has been exposed. An exposed baby will die, but has a small chance to survive if energy is preseved until an adult comes along to save the baby that was left for dead. To heal enough to feel it all it to walk into hell and tidy it up while walking on the coals and being showered in lava so to speak. Yes, it is the most painful work, and yes it is worth your while. yes. like you, it has taken time and a variety of approaches to work through and change my attachment style toward secure. i feel very optimistic about relationship endeavors now. i have built a wide range of deep connections in other relationships, including with my children , and i have grown so much in the ability to connect deeply in a romantic / intimate relationship. I feel very connected. i love it! i feel safe and content most of the time in my relationships!
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