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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:29:20 GMT
It does, doesn't it? APs are all about wanting love/validation and when they sometimes get it for real, they can't believe it and dimissive it, because it doesn't align with their worldview (being unworthy of love and/or defective). It is very messed up....and sad and painful. Exactly, it doesn't line up with the core beliefs of themselves. Me included. I'm working very hard to change those core beliefs about myself. Trust is the underline issue on both sides just played out in opposite demonstrations. I said APs in general but I am exactly the same! Trust may not be the core issue for APs though. We usually trust others very well. What we don't trust is our ability to receive love because it triggers such negative thoughts in ourselves. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:33:38 GMT
It does, doesn't it? APs are all about wanting love/validation and when they sometimes get it for real, they can't believe it and dimissive it, because it doesn't align with their worldview (being unworthy of love and/or defective). It is very messed up....and sad and painful. it's so sad and painful, for all of us with insecure attachment. this dynamic massacres both parties so badly! i wonder if it's possible to improve it with awareness and hard work on both sides or if it would be such a long painful road it would prove too unsettling constantly. one of the things i realized, at a critical point in my recovery, was that one of the most painful experiences i ever had was someone being unable to receive the love i felt for them. That hurt worst than being hit. For someone to constantly twist my love into something ugly and selfish, because of their own inability to receive it. it wounded me deeply, until i learned to let go and forgive it. it was at the same time, painful and insulting. I must say it's quite difficult for me to put myself in your shoes with this one, but if I try hard, I can see how hurtful this must feel. Very frustrating at the very least... It's probably not only DAs feeling this towards APs as well. My secure ex might have felt the same way. And to this day, I still can't say whether she truly loved me or not. I still don't know. Can't differenciate between facts, subjective feelings, and attachment stuff. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:37:18 GMT
Hey everyone, This is a great post! I feel more sadness and pain with my breakup, however the anger comes out here and there and when it does, I feel empowered and better. I think for me, what I'm learning is that if I get in touch with my anger towards my ex, it makes me feel distant from him and as an AP, I want to still feel close. So, I instead focus on understanding what went wrong, which can then sometimes snowball into everything I did wrong, thus the anger becomes misdirected at myself. When we were together, I held so much of my anger in, I did not text him a lot at all, I never got angry if he waited for days to contact me or answer a simple question. However, when we were together and he would pick a fight with me about lets say, my driving, when he knew that annoys me, I would raise my voice and really lash out which was all that pent up anger. He would then turn it around and blame me yet again! It was maddening. Just thinking about it makes me anxious. Another time I needed him for support to take me to a doctor appointment, he agreed to take me the day before, only to tell me the day of that uber was having a sale on rides and it would cost me very little to take one. that hurt me and angered me, so we went back and forth over text, later I went to his house and he closed the door in my face! Said I was disrupting his day and took out my nervousness on him which was unacceptable. I didn't get angry, I went home and calmly wrote an email stating how painful he treated me and that I expect more from him. he never responded to the email. These are examples of what an AP will tolerate and so when dumped I think the anger and rage does surface with the realization of what we have accepted and how the person treated us. ☹ I could see that anger being useful and justified. There is such a thing as expressing anger in a healthy way which sounds like that's what you try to do but of course it's going to burst out sometimes if you are repressing too much or continually feeling under valued. Ultimately we are willing participants and we need to learn to leave when the overall relationship is not treating us with love and respect. I second that. Expressing anger in a healthy is an important skill especially for APs to gain. We repress anger all the time, because we know that we show it, it will scare people away and they might abandon us, which is what we fear the most. So anger is often seeting under the surface, and it inevitably burts from to time in pretty ugly ways. The rest of the time, the anger is directed against ourselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 19:38:52 GMT
it's so sad and painful, for all of us with insecure attachment. this dynamic massacres both parties so badly! i wonder if it's possible to improve it with awareness and hard work on both sides or if it would be such a long painful road it would prove too unsettling constantly. one of the things i realized, at a critical point in my recovery, was that one of the most painful experiences i ever had was someone being unable to receive the love i felt for them. That hurt worst than being hit. For someone to constantly twist my love into something ugly and selfish, because of their own inability to receive it. it wounded me deeply, until i learned to let go and forgive it. it was at the same time, painful and insulting. I must say it's quite difficult for me to put myself in your shoes with this one, but if I try hard, I can see how hurtful this must feel. Very frustrating at the very least... It's probably not only DAs feeling this towards APs as well. My secure ex might have felt the same way. And to this day, I still can't say whether she truly loved me or not. I still don't know. Can't differenciate between facts, subjective feelings, and attachment stuff. i know for a fact i have loved in a true sense and had it rejected and twisted into me being a monster or annoyance by someone who hated themselves too much to receive it and it was very hurtful and then on top of that, abusive to me because my character was assinated due to their insecurity. just a painful mess. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 19:40:53 GMT
Exactly, which is I guess what everyone is trying to figure out. I realized my ex has the confirmation bias and so when I would say nice things to him, he would lash out at me. I didn't get it until yesterday in the other thread. It became a very constant form of verbal abuse, which is why I left the relationship. I still love him and want to be there for him. I'm wondering of there is any way to reassure him as kind words don't seem to help  I think being calm and gentle is one possible way. Just earlier, I was listening to an audio book by Diane Poole Heller, an attachment therapist, and she recommended the same thing. Maybe it's not so much the words themselves that help, but a caring attitude. Maybe some form of light humour can defuse such a tense situation. It's actually not tense at all right now. Unfortunately, our main communication is by email, which is the form he chose. I think because he wants to be able to watch what he says and email is a way to do that. The problem is he doesn't know what his needs are. I thought I might be able to get some ideas here, but I know everyone is an individual. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:43:32 GMT
When I was a child, I had terrible temper tantrums, rolling on the ground screaming and crying, even in public, for not having my needs met (which often was having yet one more Lego set, but it was probably a lot deeper than that, of course I didn't know it at the time).
My parents (probably only my mum) sent me to therapy because of that, at the age of 9. My dad died shortly afterwards, and I stopped seeing that psychiatrist, as it seemed that the source of my problems was gone (my emotionally abusive dad). Funny to think now that back then, my mum could probably see that something was wrong with me because of my dad. Today, when I talk to her about this stuff, she is in complete denial and is surprised that I was scared of my dad.
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 21, 2018 19:44:54 GMT
I so relate to this. This was my experience, but honesty, I want to try and see if this will work. He is more aware now than ever before. that awareness that you both are growing might make it doable, and i am here for you no matter what. Tgat said it perfectly. Being with someone who is unable to receive the love is very painful indeed. That is why awareness is key! @mary you are very aware and if he is also moving into that space, than I think it is worth trying to see where it goes. I support you no matter what as well! It has been inspiring to watch how you keep evolving. |
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Post by cricket on Feb 21, 2018 19:45:35 GMT
Exactly, it doesn't line up with the core beliefs of themselves. Me included. I'm working very hard to change those core beliefs about myself. Trust is the underline issue on both sides just played out in opposite demonstrations. I said APs in general but I am exactly the same! Trust may not be the core issue for APs though. We usually trust others very well. What we don't trust is our ability to receive love because it triggers such negative thoughts in ourselves. That's what I meant by trust. I don't think either side trust themselves enough and it has to all start w self trust just like it has to start w self love. I need to trust myself enough to know I can handle situations that I might not like. I have to trust that I am actually loveable enough for this person to be with. I have to trust that I can pick the right partner or walk away if they are not right and trust that I won't fall apart if they do leave. A lot of trust issues going on😬. My ex DA told me he has trust issues with himself and with people in general. If we don't trust ourselves we definitely won't trust others. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:46:13 GMT
I must say it's quite difficult for me to put myself in your shoes with this one, but if I try hard, I can see how hurtful this must feel. Very frustrating at the very least... It's probably not only DAs feeling this towards APs as well. My secure ex might have felt the same way. And to this day, I still can't say whether she truly loved me or not. I still don't know. Can't differenciate between facts, subjective feelings, and attachment stuff. i know for a fact i have loved in a true sense and had it rejected and twisted into me being a monster or annoyance by someone who hated themselves too much to receive it and it was very hurtful and then on top of that, abusive to me because my character was assinated due to their insecurity. just a painful mess. Sorry to hear....Just plain sad...it shows how much this type of relationship is unhealthy, for both parts. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:47:58 GMT
I think being calm and gentle is one possible way. Just earlier, I was listening to an audio book by Diane Poole Heller, an attachment therapist, and she recommended the same thing. Maybe it's not so much the words themselves that help, but a caring attitude. Maybe some form of light humour can defuse such a tense situation. It's actually not tense at all right now. Unfortunately, our main communication is by email, which is the form he chose. I think because he wants to be able to watch what he says and email is a way to do that. The problem is he doesn't know what his needs are. I thought I might be able to get some ideas here, but I know everyone is an individual. You can get some ideas here for sure. There must be some common needs for all APs. Have you ever tried asking him what his needs are? Or to make him think of them somehow? |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 21, 2018 19:48:46 GMT
Don't avoidants suppress anger too?
I don't think either side of me is very good at expressing anger. In some circumstances t's the ultimate vulnerability right..?
1. Letting someone else see the real you /the angry you / your emotions and how they have affected you
2. Trusting them to respond lovingly to you when you're not being nice and to still want you with this uglier side
For me, fighting with someone /expressing anger and the process of resolving it is EXTREMELY intimate and I find it incredibly difficult in any / every relationship if the issue is serious or causing me actual stress and pain. I can get angry at someone over small things / fight my corner (ha ha, ask @tgat) and I am the first person to call someone out over a non-issue, but in terms of real life, big, serious issues...nope..nada...can't do it.
I used to just find a new job if I was mad at my boss about something rather than talking to him about it. I walked away from a company once that I created / owned and built to avoid conflict with my cocaine snorting business partner who kept buying stuff on the company credit card and just left all my money behind rather than fight.
I tend to get very passive is someone betrays me or mistreats me. Then I just disappear / walk away instead of confronting them. This is a big issue for me but I think it's the avoidant side as well as the anxious side which brings this characteristic out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 19:49:22 GMT
When I was a child, I had terrible temper tantrums, rolling on the ground screaming and crying, even in public, for not having my needs met (which often was having yet one more Lego set, but it was probably a lot deeper than that, of course I didn't know it at the time). My parents (probably only my mum) sent me to therapy because of that, at the age of 9. My dad died shortly afterwards, and I stopped seeing that psychiatrist, as it seemed that the source of my problems was gone (my emotionally abusive dad). Funny to think now that back then, my mum could probably see that something was wrong with me because of my dad. Today, when I talk to her about this stuff, she is in complete denial and is surprised that I was scared of my dad. Wow, extremely similar background to my ex. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 21, 2018 19:50:52 GMT
As a side not to my last comment, I think it is dependent on my emotional investment. EXAMPLE: Dating a guy for a few weeks and he does something small, I will explode with all the hellfire of the Sicilian bloodline I have  no problems confronting it, no problems stating why I am angry and expressing it. Dating a guy for a year and love him and then he does something BIG, I have no idea how to cope with this betrayal. I don't think I even FEEL angry, I just feel worthless. To me this is very avoidant. The more invested I am in someone or something, the less capable I am of being angry -even justifiably. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:52:00 GMT
I said APs in general but I am exactly the same! Trust may not be the core issue for APs though. We usually trust others very well. What we don't trust is our ability to receive love because it triggers such negative thoughts in ourselves. That's what I meant by trust. I don't think either side trust themselves enough and it has to all start w self trust just like it has to start w self love. I need to trust myself enough to know I can handle situations that I might not like. I have to trust that I am actually loveable enough for this person to be with. I have to trust that I can pick the right partner or walk away if they are not right and trust that I won't fall apart if they do leave. A lot of trust issues going on😬. My ex DA told me he has trust issues with himself and with people in general. If we don't trust ourselves we definitely won't trust others. Right, now I understand your use of the term "trust". I would have used "accept", but the idea is the same. This is a lot to work on....but essential. I feel at the bottom of the pit these days, and that I haven't made any progress whatsoever regarding all these issues. Especially the self love stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 19:55:57 GMT
It's actually not tense at all right now. Unfortunately, our main communication is by email, which is the form he chose. I think because he wants to be able to watch what he says and email is a way to do that. The problem is he doesn't know what his needs are. I thought I might be able to get some ideas here, but I know everyone is an individual. You can get some ideas here for sure. There must be some common needs for all APs. Have you ever tried asking him what his needs are? Or to make him think of them somehow? Yes, we have definitely had that discussion about needs and boundaries. He had no idea what I was talking about and he never thought about it before. Then he said he has no idea what his needs are. He's just very unaware about himself, but this break up has in a sense forced him to look at things. Plus, I am not the only person in his life that has mentioned these things to him. He does this to people that are close to him, not just me. |
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no problems confronting it, no problems stating why I am angry and expressing it.