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Post by cricket on Feb 21, 2018 21:34:34 GMT
Thanks for your support, cricket. Yes, once you pass a certain treshold into the depressive spiral, it is very difficult to climb back out of it. I'm sorry to hear that it even went as far as suicide attempts in your case. But you are still here, alive and kicking! Good to hear that this type of journaling has helped you a lot. I wish my therapist encouraged me to do that. I found out about it on my own, by reading abandonment litterature ("Taming Your Outer Child", do you know this book?). I need to do the same thing. I can very well imagine that constant critical and hurtful inner voice, it is there almost all the time. No wonder it's affecting us so much. We need to be our own best friend, I totally agree. The only real improvement I notice is the realisation that these feelings are temporary. Each perceived failure/disappointment does prompt us to do more self love work each time, I can see that. I like how you view your relationship past with some humour! It would have been boring with only one relationship for the rest of your life, hehe, true! I haven't read that one but I'll look it up. I read one I liked a lot and it had some good inner child work too. It's called "Journey from abandonment". Last week I was so frustrated. I said how many times do I have to learn the same fu&@in lesson! I was kind of sick at all this self work crap. But those feelings passed quickly this time. Combat and challenge to change each one of your negative thoughts. They are not truth. They are just your depressive perception. One person is not your whole happiness. It just feels like it sometimes. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 21:51:25 GMT
Seem from an attachment point of view, the inability of APs to accept love from others is due to the inconsistency of the love that was given to them as a child. There was *some* love, but it was so inconsistent that there was always a risk for it to go away and never come back. This is why APs struggle so hard to accept love. Accepting it means taking the risk that it might just disappear, leaving them abandoned once more. I think this is why my ex and I bonded so deeply, among other reasons. His fear is being abandoned and my fear is abandoning someone that needs me. My abandonment was complete and total as a child, so being abandoned feels normal to me (it's like it's the way it should be, so I don't fear it). This is why I am having so much trouble leaving this relationship even though it has hurt me deeply. I don't want him to feel abandoned, but I also can't keep letting him hurt me. Its so difficult. This makes a lot of sense to me. I had the same thought, but didn't dare suggesting it. I was precisely wondering if you didn't feel such a strong attachment to him because of your need to save him. Your bond is probably due to your opposite attachment systems. Now I see how someone can become DA instead of AP. Complete abandonment seems to turn one into a DA, while partial abandonment seems to turn one into an AP (it's probably way oversimplified though, there are of course other factors). I can see how difficult it must be to leave this relationship, I feel for you and your guy. The dynamic between my secure and I wasn't that dissimilar. She didn't really want to give up on me either, because this made her feel super guilty. But is this really love? |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 21:56:08 GMT
Thanks for your support, cricket . Yes, once you pass a certain treshold into the depressive spiral, it is very difficult to climb back out of it. I'm sorry to hear that it even went as far as suicide attempts in your case. But you are still here, alive and kicking! Good to hear that this type of journaling has helped you a lot. I wish my therapist encouraged me to do that. I found out about it on my own, by reading abandonment litterature ("Taming Your Outer Child", do you know this book?). I need to do the same thing. I can very well imagine that constant critical and hurtful inner voice, it is there almost all the time. No wonder it's affecting us so much. We need to be our own best friend, I totally agree. The only real improvement I notice is the realisation that these feelings are temporary. Each perceived failure/disappointment does prompt us to do more self love work each time, I can see that. I like how you view your relationship past with some humour! It would have been boring with only one relationship for the rest of your life, hehe, true! I haven't read that one but I'll look it up. I read one I liked a lot and it had some good inner child work too. It's called "Journey from abandonment". Last week I was so frustrated. I said how many times do I have to learn the same fu&@in lesson! I was kind of sick at all this self work crap. But those feelings passed quickly this time. Combat and challenge to change each one of your negative thoughts. They are not truth. They are just your depressive perception. One person is not your whole happiness. It just feels like it sometimes. By Susan Anderson, right? I think "Journey from abandonment" is her first book, "Taming your outer child" came later. I didn't read the first one. Yes, I remember that you felt frustrated last week, when you started a new thread. So it does come and go (thanksfully!). Yes, it is about working on each one of our negative thoughts, methodically. Since you have read a lot of self help litterature, are you familiar with Schema Therapy and the idea of core beliefs and lifetraps? One person is not one's whole happiness...believe me, I know how it feels! We APs attach so quickly and strongly and put all our eggs in one basket. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 22:17:19 GMT
I think this is why my ex and I bonded so deeply, among other reasons. His fear is being abandoned and my fear is abandoning someone that needs me. My abandonment was complete and total as a child, so being abandoned feels normal to me (it's like it's the way it should be, so I don't fear it). This is why I am having so much trouble leaving this relationship even though it has hurt me deeply. I don't want him to feel abandoned, but I also can't keep letting him hurt me. Its so difficult. This makes a lot of sense to me. I had the same thought, but didn't dare suggesting it. I was precisely wondering if you didn't feel such a strong attachment to him because of your need to save him. Your bond is probably due to your opposite attachment systems. Now I see how someone can become DA instead of AP. Complete abandonment seems to turn one into a DA, while partial abandonment seems to turn one into an AP (it's probably way oversimplified though, there are of course other factors). I can see how difficult it must be to leave this relationship, I feel for you and your guy. The dynamic between my secure and I wasn't that dissimilar. She didn't really want to give up on me either, because this made her feel super guilty. But is this really love? I can see what you are saying, but for me, it's not out of guilt or wanting to save him. I only feel this way with people that I have a very strong attachment to and honestly that is very far and few between. It's because I love him so much that I don't want him to feel abandoned. I know it's hard to see the DA side, but this is actually a very hard thing for me to do. We are not good with empathy, so for me to feel for him this way and for what he's feeling is a tiny miracle. Is it love how other people experience it? I don't know, but it's a deep love for me. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 22:23:13 GMT
If this is something different from what you usually feel, then I'd also be tempted to call this for deep love and not typical attachment stuff. I tend to forget that DAs are not very good with empathy, so of course this must feel like a tiny miracle! And so your interpret it as something closer to what real love is for secures.
But are you still together or not?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 22:48:19 GMT
If this is something different from what you usually feel, then I'd also be tempted to call this for deep love and not typical attachment stuff. I tend to forget that DAs are not very good with empathy, so of course this must feel like a tiny miracle! And so your interpret it as something closer to what real love is for secures. But are you still together or not? No, but this is why I have posted this. I am trying to find a way where we can be and I can be safe also. If he only did these behaviors with me, I would agree that our attachment systems are at odds. But the fact that he also does it with other (non DA) people that he is close to makes me think it's not. |
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Post by gaynxious on Feb 21, 2018 22:49:37 GMT
I wonder because I haven't seen much anger expressed by APs on this board. Much more longing and yearning. So I wondered if they are aware of the anger? But perhaps the posts about what "DAs do/have done to them" is the anger. Can the anger be subsided with more reassurance from their partner? I have extreme anger issues but on this board I can generally keep hem under control. It's in the heat of the moment where my anger bursts out and feels uncontrollable. Also I imagine we tend to forget these feelings as our nervous system is designed to forget the bad andremember the good. And it's not a comfortable feeling to investigate and take responsibility for. |
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Post by cricket on Feb 21, 2018 22:58:59 GMT
[/quote]By Susan Anderson, right? I think "Journey from abandonment" is her first book, "Taming your outer child" came later. I didn't read the first one.
Yes, I remember that you felt frustrated last week, when you started a new thread. So it does come and go (thanksfully!).
Yes, it is about working on each one of our negative thoughts, methodically. Since you have read a lot of self help litterature, are you familiar with Schema Therapy and the idea of core beliefs and lifetraps?
One person is not one's whole happiness...believe me, I know how it feels! We APs attach so quickly and strongly and put all our eggs in one basket.
[/quote]
Yes that one,😀 I liked her writing style. I will for sure look at that book next. I hadn't heard of schema therapy but am very familiar w the core beliefs. That's what I strive to change. I found that I need to change my core beliefs about a lot of topics in my life, not just about relationships. It gets overwhelming so I try to take one topic at a time.
Is that the type of therapy that resonates with you best? What helps you feel better? Like your last break up w her, how did you start to feel better again?
The emotional place I was at over the weekend is usually how I am for weeks after he leaves but this time it only lasted a few days. I'm happy about that. I think it shows my progress. Not that I won't still have sad days but I know they will pass by more quickly.
Yup we get attached to certain people fast. I don't get attached often but when I do it's for a long time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 23:23:20 GMT
As a side not to my last comment, I think it is dependent on my emotional investment. EXAMPLE: Dating a guy for a few weeks and he does something small, I will explode with all the hellfire of the Sicilian bloodline I have  no problems confronting it, no problems stating why I am angry and expressing it. Dating a guy for a year and love him and then he does something BIG, I have no idea how to cope with this betrayal. I don't think I even FEEL angry, I just feel worthless. To me this is very avoidant. The more invested I am in someone or something, the less capable I am of being angry -even justifiably. I don't know why, but I am the opposite. In the beginning, they can say anything to me and I don't care. If I am invested and he does something big, I will get really mad (I'm never a hellfire, lol), but I do get mad. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 13:44:07 GMT
If this is something different from what you usually feel, then I'd also be tempted to call this for deep love and not typical attachment stuff. I tend to forget that DAs are not very good with empathy, so of course this must feel like a tiny miracle! And so your interpret it as something closer to what real love is for secures. But are you still together or not? No, but this is why I have posted this. I am trying to find a way where we can be and I can be safe also. If he only did these behaviors with me, I would agree that our attachment systems are at odds. But the fact that he also does it with other (non DA) people that he is close to makes me think it's not. I understand. I wish you two could find a way for each to feel secure enough for things to work out. But it looks like he needs to work on his awareness, which is the very first step. The facts that he does the same with other people only shows that this a pattern. Attachment-related behavious can also manifest themselves in less triggering situations, even in the presence of secures. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 14:06:12 GMT
Yes that one,😀 I liked her writing style. I will for sure look at that book next. I hadn't heard of schema therapy but am very familiar w the core beliefs. That's what I strive to change. I found that I need to change my core beliefs about a lot of topics in my life, not just about relationships. It gets overwhelming so I try to take one topic at a time. Is that the type of therapy that resonates with you best? What helps you feel better? Like your last break up w her, how did you start to feel better again? The emotional place I was at over the weekend is usually how I am for weeks after he leaves but this time it only lasted a few days. I'm happy about that. I think it shows my progress. Not that I won't still have sad days but I know they will pass by more quickly. Yup we get attached to certain people fast. I don't get attached often but when I do it's for a long time. I'll link you to Schema Therapy, I'll start a thread on it I think! It is what resonates the best with me, because I find it to be the most encompassing of all theories I have read about so far. It even goes one step deeper than attachment theory, because attachment stuff is derived from core beliefs (what they call lifetraps in ST). But it's not really something you can do on your own. I wish my own therapist was a bit more pragmatic and exercise-oriented to work with ST (even though she can everything about the theory behind it). ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) is also very interesting, but more as a tool instead of an explanatory theory. I didn't start to feel better after the last breakup. It was a very short and intense mini-relationship, the first one in 4 years, and I'm sinking into depression because of it. I manage to catch myself just enough not to fall too deeply into it, but it's very borderline. My therapist this morning confirmed it. Really good to hear that you already started to feel better after only a few days! This is a major accomplishment. It definitely shows your progress. I have made some progress as well. In the past, I might have been very seriously depressed for months. |
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Post by cricket on Feb 22, 2018 17:47:31 GMT
Yes that one,😀 I liked her writing style. I will for sure look at that book next. I hadn't heard of schema therapy but am very familiar w the core beliefs. That's what I strive to change. I found that I need to change my core beliefs about a lot of topics in my life, not just about relationships. It gets overwhelming so I try to take one topic at a time. Is that the type of therapy that resonates with you best? What helps you feel better? Like your last break up w her, how did you start to feel better again? The emotional place I was at over the weekend is usually how I am for weeks after he leaves but this time it only lasted a few days. I'm happy about that. I think it shows my progress. Not that I won't still have sad days but I know they will pass by more quickly. Yup we get attached to certain people fast. I don't get attached often but when I do it's for a long time. I'll link you to Schema Therapy, I'll start a thread on it I think! It is what resonates the best with me, because I find it to be the most encompassing of all theories I have read about so far. It even goes one step deeper than attachment theory, because attachment stuff is derived from core beliefs (what they call lifetraps in ST). But it's not really something you can do on your own. I wish my own therapist was a bit more pragmatic and exercise-oriented to work with ST (even though she can everything about the theory behind it). ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) is also very interesting, but more as a tool instead of an explanatory theory. I didn't start to feel better after the last breakup. It was a very short and intense mini-relationship, the first one in 4 years, and I'm sinking into depression because of it. I manage to catch myself just enough not to fall too deeply into it, but it's very borderline. My therapist this morning confirmed it. Really good to hear that you already started to feel better after only a few days! This is a major accomplishment. It definitely shows your progress. I have made some progress as well. In the past, I might have been very seriously depressed for months. I looked it up. I really like it too. I did a short exercise and it reviewed another negative core belief that I didn't know was there. Haha so I added that to the list. I am at the point where I want to learn tools now. I don't think I can cram much for info on all these theories and reasons to why I behave this way and why they behave that way. I wan to with tools to change it or release it or whatever. I'm so glad you are noticing your progress too. Where pur attention goes it what grows so keep being aware of progress and don't label it by being a small step or big step. It's progress in the right direction. That's good you see a therapist too. A good one can really help on this journey. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 19:01:56 GMT
I get the feeling regarding too much info on all these theories! I'm interested because I find that fascinating and I love to understand human psychology, but at the end of the day, what you want are tools to apply, I totally understand that, this is what we need.
Not labelling progress in indeed a good strategy. I often feel shame related to the little progress I've made (according to my own super subjective scale).
I've been seeing a therapist for over 6 years, but I'm a bit frustrated because she doesn't offer many tools. She's good at disentangling illogical thoughts with me though.
What about yours?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 23:38:22 GMT
this is such a great thread, and going so fast, i can hardly keep up. I'll just add my 2 cents worth.
APs are great at holding in hurt and expressing that as anger, passively or aggressively. the primary emotion is hurt and sadness and fear, the secondary emotion is anger. for myself, it's to a point where i can't hold anymore hurt and am exhausted with trying to manage my own emotions + the relationship + his emotions that i explode in anger, usually by raising my voice and saying exactly what i think of the situation. it usually starts by sounding abit whiny then ends up like lecturing a misbehaved kid. at some point in the whinge, i just snap and switch mode.
alpenglow, you're exactly right. i can't remmeber which thread we talked about this, but it's about building a bridge between what we know and what we can do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 23:44:25 GMT
No, but this is why I have posted this. I am trying to find a way where we can be and I can be safe also. If he only did these behaviors with me, I would agree that our attachment systems are at odds. But the fact that he also does it with other (non DA) people that he is close to makes me think it's not. I understand. I wish you two could find a way for each to feel secure enough for things to work out. But it looks like he needs to work on his awareness, which is the very first step. The facts that he does the same with other people only shows that this a pattern. Attachment-related behavious can also manifest themselves in less triggering situations, even in the presence of secures. Do you think this means the behaviors are more ingrained if they do them in less triggering situations as well? Or the person has a lower trigger threshold? |
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no problems confronting it, no problems stating why I am angry and expressing it.