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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:56:12 GMT
When I was a child, I had terrible temper tantrums, rolling on the ground screaming and crying, even in public, for not having my needs met (which often was having yet one more Lego set, but it was probably a lot deeper than that, of course I didn't know it at the time). My parents (probably only my mum) sent me to therapy because of that, at the age of 9. My dad died shortly afterwards, and I stopped seeing that psychiatrist, as it seemed that the source of my problems was gone (my emotionally abusive dad). Funny to think now that back then, my mum could probably see that something was wrong with me because of my dad. Today, when I talk to her about this stuff, she is in complete denial and is surprised that I was scared of my dad. Wow, extremely similar background to my ex. If we're so alike, don't hesitate to ask me more questions  |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 19:59:14 GMT
You can get some ideas here for sure. There must be some common needs for all APs. Have you ever tried asking him what his needs are? Or to make him think of them somehow? Yes, we have definitely had that discussion about needs and boundaries. He had no idea what I was talking about and he never thought about it before. Then he said he has no idea what his needs are. He's just very unaware about himself, but this break up has in a sense forced him to look at things. Plus, I am not the only person in his life that has mentioned these things to him. He does this to people that are close to him, not just me. A pity that he is this unaware, this doesn't make things any easier. Breakups are supposed to make people more aware. Hopefully this will put him in the right direction. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:00:52 GMT
Don't avoidants suppress anger too? I really don't know. The literature says suppressed anger is more related to AP and FA. For me personally, I can't hold anger in. It's the one emotion I am familiar with and can express it freely. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 20:03:45 GMT
Don't avoidants suppress anger too? I don't think either side of me is very good at expressing anger. In some circumstances t's the ultimate vulnerability right..? 1. Letting someone else see the real you /the angry you / your emotions and how they have affected you 2. Trusting them to respond lovingly to you when you're not being nice and to still want you with this uglier side For me, fighting with someone /expressing anger and the process of resolving it is EXTREMELY intimate and I find it incredibly difficult in any / every relationship if the issue is serious or causing me actual stress and pain. I can get angry at someone over small things / fight my corner (ha ha, ask @tgat ) and I am the first person to call someone out over a non-issue, but in terms of real life, big, serious issues...nope..nada...can't do it. I used to just find a new job if I was mad at my boss about something rather than talking to him about it. I walked away from a company once that I created / owned and built to avoid conflict with my cocaine snorting business partner who kept buying stuff on the company credit card and just left all my money behind rather than fight. I tend to get very passive is someone betrays me or mistreats me. Then I just disappear / walk away instead of confronting them. This is a big issue for me but I think it's the avoidant side as well as the anxious side which brings this characteristic out. This is quite a different behaviour from the typical AP. But of course you are FA, so it has to be different (I apologize for being little knowledgeable about the FA attachment style). Quite amazing that your reactions seem to be almost reversed. APs would tolerate anything in the beginning, and gradually less and less. Isn't getting passive a typical FA reaction? From what I read. Like the anxiety and the avoidance cancelling each other out, which results in some kind of freeze, even though you feel very emotional and tense inside? |
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Post by cricket on Feb 21, 2018 20:04:34 GMT
Right, now I understand your use of the term "trust". I would have used "accept", but the idea is the same. This is a lot to work on....but essential. I feel at the bottom of the pit these days, and that I haven't made any progress whatsoever regarding all these issues. Especially the self love stuff. It's so easy to fall back there. It comes in waves. I hope your negative waves are getting shorter. Our thoughts want to revert back to what we are used to and comfortable with. We've been thinking like that our whole lives. Don't sell yourself short. Write down things you have done to improve yourself, like books that you've read or participating in this forum. The self love thing is hard too , I know. Just try to honor every little feeling that brings u peace or joy That's self love. As simple as taking a walk and noticing and appreciating nature is self love. Your love is there , it's just being covered up by those old programmed thoughts that you don't need anymore. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 20:15:12 GMT
Right, now I understand your use of the term "trust". I would have used "accept", but the idea is the same. This is a lot to work on....but essential. I feel at the bottom of the pit these days, and that I haven't made any progress whatsoever regarding all these issues. Especially the self love stuff. It's so easy to fall back there. It comes in waves. I hope your negative waves are getting shorter. Our thoughts want to revert back to what we are used to and comfortable with. We've been thinking like that our whole lives. Don't sell yourself short. Write down things you have done to improve yourself, like books that you've read or participating in this forum. The self love thing is hard too , I know. Just try to honor every little feeling that brings u peace or joy That's self love. As simple as taking a walk and noticing and appreciating nature is self love. Your love is there , it's just being covered up by those old programmed thoughts that you don't need anymore. Very easy indeed. I am super vulnerable and triggered these days because of the dating stuff and being rejected over and over time. It feels like the ultimate objective Truth that I am as unlovable as I think. This core belief has been reinforced ten folds as a result of those unsucessful dating experiences. Even suicide thoughts are coming back, I had kept them at bay for a long time. Writing things down, like keeping a gratitude journal, is something I should do, I often read this kind of advice. I heard an interesting take on love being already there, covered up by those old programmed thoughts. The idea is that we already love ourselves because all the sabotaging strategies we engage in, are a way to protect ourselves, however misguided. They are all attempts at making sense of things, of soothing our anxiety and existential anguish. And that we do these things because we actually love ourselves, they are just very unefficient and etrimental strategies. But the intention behind is still self preservation and self love. A lack of love would be giving up and being completely passive, not caring one way or the other. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 21, 2018 20:32:54 GMT
Yes. Passive/ freezing can happen in certain circumstances
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Post by cricket on Feb 21, 2018 20:34:31 GMT
It's so easy to fall back there. It comes in waves. I hope your negative waves are getting shorter. Our thoughts want to revert back to what we are used to and comfortable with. We've been thinking like that our whole lives. Don't sell yourself short. Write down things you have done to improve yourself, like books that you've read or participating in this forum. The self love thing is hard too , I know. Just try to honor every little feeling that brings u peace or joy That's self love. As simple as taking a walk and noticing and appreciating nature is self love. Your love is there , it's just being covered up by those old programmed thoughts that you don't need anymore. Very easy indeed. I am super vulnerable and triggered these days because of the dating stuff and being rejected over and over time. It feels like the ultimate objective Truth that I am as unlovable as I think. This core belief has been reinforced ten folds as a result of those unsucessful dating experiences. Even suicide thoughts are coming back, I had kept them at bay for a long time. Writing things down, like keeping a gratitude journal, is something I should do, I often read this kind of advice. I heard an interesting take on love being already there, covered up by those old programmed thoughts. The idea is that we already love ourselves because all the sabotaging strategies we engage in, are a way to protect ourselves, however misguided. They are all attempts at making sense of things, of soothing our anxiety and existential anguish. And that we do these things because we actually love ourselves, they are just very unefficient and etrimental strategies. But the intention behind is still self preservation and self love. A lack of love would be giving up and being completely passive, not caring one way or the other. I'm sorry to hear that. It's really hard to get put of that kind of depressive state. I've been there lots of times myself. Suicide attempts and all. At the times I have been my strongest and my happiest is when I was journaling and learning more and more about myself and talking to myself w love and respect. My therapist has helped me see that pur inner dialogue is everything. Like literally everything. Imagine having someone following you around that was constantly whispering horrible negative things to You? That would effect your whole life. We need to turn into our own best friend. Try to remember these feelings are temporary. Oh and I def feel your rejection pain. Looking back I can see that every guy I loved rejected me or I can see that every relationship got me ready for a slightly better one and taught me more about myself and has gotten me to do more self love work each time. Plus I have a more colorful past to remember. How boring if I just got to know one relationship for the rest of my life. Haha I like that I have known a few and have experienced each one fully. You are loveable because you are love. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:50:45 GMT
It's so easy to fall back there. It comes in waves. I hope your negative waves are getting shorter. Our thoughts want to revert back to what we are used to and comfortable with. We've been thinking like that our whole lives. Don't sell yourself short. Write down things you have done to improve yourself, like books that you've read or participating in this forum. The self love thing is hard too , I know. Just try to honor every little feeling that brings u peace or joy That's self love. As simple as taking a walk and noticing and appreciating nature is self love. Your love is there , it's just being covered up by those old programmed thoughts that you don't need anymore. Very easy indeed. I am super vulnerable and triggered these days because of the dating stuff and being rejected over and over time. It feels like the ultimate objective Truth that I am as unlovable as I think. This core belief has been reinforced ten folds as a result of those unsucessful dating experiences. Even suicide thoughts are coming back, I had kept them at bay for a long time. Writing things down, like keeping a gratitude journal, is something I should do, I often read this kind of advice. I heard an interesting take on love being already there, covered up by those old programmed thoughts. The idea is that we already love ourselves because all the sabotaging strategies we engage in, are a way to protect ourselves, however misguided. They are all attempts at making sense of things, of soothing our anxiety and existential anguish. And that we do these things because we actually love ourselves, they are just very unefficient and etrimental strategies. But the intention behind is still self preservation and self love. A lack of love would be giving up and being completely passive, not caring one way or the other. , I wish I could meet you for coffee and give you a big hug. The love for yourself and the love of others is there, but sometimes it's hard to receive it and take it in. I hope you can reprogram soon and begin to heal the inner little boy. My heart goes out to you as you remind me of someone I love very much. I wish I could take your pain away. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 20:52:12 GMT
Thanks for your support, cricket. Yes, once you pass a certain treshold into the depressive spiral, it is very difficult to climb back out of it. I'm sorry to hear that it even went as far as suicide attempts in your case. But you are still here, alive and kicking! Good to hear that this type of journaling has helped you a lot. I wish my therapist encouraged me to do that. I found out about it on my own, by reading abandonment litterature ("Taming Your Outer Child", do you know this book?). I need to do the same thing. I can very well imagine that constant critical and hurtful inner voice, it is there almost all the time. No wonder it's affecting us so much. We need to be our own best friend, I totally agree. The only real improvement I notice is the realisation that these feelings are temporary. Each perceived failure/disappointment does prompt us to do more self love work each time, I can see that. I like how you view your relationship past with some humour! It would have been boring with only one relationship for the rest of your life, hehe, true! |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 21:03:12 GMT
Very easy indeed. I am super vulnerable and triggered these days because of the dating stuff and being rejected over and over time. It feels like the ultimate objective Truth that I am as unlovable as I think. This core belief has been reinforced ten folds as a result of those unsucessful dating experiences. Even suicide thoughts are coming back, I had kept them at bay for a long time. Writing things down, like keeping a gratitude journal, is something I should do, I often read this kind of advice. I heard an interesting take on love being already there, covered up by those old programmed thoughts. The idea is that we already love ourselves because all the sabotaging strategies we engage in, are a way to protect ourselves, however misguided. They are all attempts at making sense of things, of soothing our anxiety and existential anguish. And that we do these things because we actually love ourselves, they are just very unefficient and etrimental strategies. But the intention behind is still self preservation and self love. A lack of love would be giving up and being completely passive, not caring one way or the other. , I wish I could meet you for coffee and give you a big hug. The love for yourself and the love of others is there, but sometimes it's hard to receive it and take it in. I hope you can reprogram soon and begin to heal the inner little boy. My heart goes out to you as you remind me of someone I love very much. I wish I could take your pain away. This is very touching, @mary , coffee and hug would be nice, thanks for caring, I really appreciate it. Even the words you use remind me of the woman I dated a month ago (she even had the same name as yours!). She told me something very similar when we broke up and talked about what had happened. She also wished she could take my pain away and talked about my inner little boy and how I should give my attractive adult self more space. She added that for people like us who suffer so much from lack of love in our childhood and the perceived lack of self love as adults, the process of finding love as an adult should be made twice as easy (I hope this sentence makes sense, I'm pretty much trilingual but it's not always easy to translate from one foreign language to another foreign language!) |
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 21, 2018 21:06:17 GMT
Haven't read through all posts yet, as I'm about to board my plane back to freezing Europe, but from what I've read, there is a lot of emphasis on AP's being unable to accept the love given to them, leading to annoyance or anger. I think that goes both ways though, and many AP's would say the same about how avoidants can't accept their love and always draw it into a negative light, criticizing the way they give love out of their own ability to accept it. From the sidelines, the core cause seems to be the same; lack of self confidence and a pisitive image of self. Well, save for DA's, who usually convince themselves they have high self confidence.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 21:11:46 GMT
Good summary, Jaeger. I think you are spot on, also the thing about DAs convincing themselves of having high self confidence.
I can't speak for all DAs, but I observe this in my DA brother. Seemingly high self confidence, but it is a facade.
Have a safe trip back to freezing Europe!!
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 21, 2018 21:14:43 GMT
Seem from an attachment point of view, the inability of APs to accept love from others is due to the inconsistency of the love that was given to them as a child. There was *some* love, but it was so inconsistent that there was always a risk for it to go away and never come back. This is why APs struggle so hard to accept love. Accepting it means taking the risk that it might just disappear, leaving them abandoned once more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 21:25:08 GMT
Seem from an attachment point of view, the inability of APs to accept love from others is due to the inconsistency of the love that was given to them as a child. There was *some* love, but it was so inconsistent that there was always a risk for it to go away and never come back. This is why APs struggle so hard to accept love. Accepting it means taking the risk that it might just disappear, leaving them abandoned once more. I think this is why my ex and I bonded so deeply, among other reasons. His fear is being abandoned and my fear is abandoning someone that needs me. My abandonment was complete and total as a child, so being abandoned feels normal to me (it's like it's the way it should be, so I don't fear it). This is why I am having so much trouble leaving this relationship even though it has hurt me deeply. I don't want him to feel abandoned, but I also can't keep letting him hurt me. Its so difficult. |
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