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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 15:30:48 GMT
So here is the thing Juniper...it may be a lightbulb moment......APs fear abandonment....abandonment fears trigger a lack of safety. We don't offer safety to our partners out of some misguided thought that we can protect our partner...we try to offer safety because that is what we as APs need. We all tend to give what we most want...the issue is that we also don't 1. Consider that we are doing this and thus speak clearly to that need and 2. Because we give what we want to get and vice versa...we create a vast hole where neither person is getting what he/she truly needs since so much is unspoken but reacted upon. We judge what our partner gives us through the lens of our own brokenness...not from the perspective of curiosity. I often said I wanted a handbook for B...not so I could take advantage of what I learned (as I suspect was his fear) but so that I would be able to see things from his perspective correctly and not just through my own AP lens. It is very hard to get to know someone who has been overwhelmed, not accepted and expected to be a certain way from a caregiver who only thought of him/herself. So many barriers to truly getting to know that person, so much suspicion about motives....and all I wanted to do was be the best partner I could be....but I had no map to follow and that stunk. i'm not arguing that, and it's understandable but i don't excuse it in current understanding. when you know better you do better and how will you know if you don't hear it from the source? i'm not going to refrain from speaking here because someone might feel defensive. i'm not defensive. i'm here supporting an AP with my whole heart. we don't have to continually defend dysfunction and we don't have to let it be the elephant in the room. and frankly it doesn't really matter to me where it comes from, there isn't fault in it. i'm not here flogging anyone or myself. i'm just saying what i have to say and there it is. friendly and honest and without any emotion. the AP dynamic doesn't affect me at all because i am not involved with any. I don't have anything to be upset about, i'm just saying what i observe. I wasn't just speaking to the AP side of things....it involves both partners...and i was speaking to my own dynamic as well. I hate when these dissolve into some AP/DA generalizations. I like to believe we are more than that....I would like to not invoke my little girl to SHAME with each comment that APs lack this or APs do that. Had enough of that from my mom....don't need a forum for that. Can we start to see each other for what each other brings to the table...because we each do bring some good things. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 15:37:18 GMT
the OP poster is the one i'm concerned with here. please let me say what i want, you can as well. i won't edit myself for you. i can happily take this private with flic to avoid this. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 15:40:35 GMT
PS i had AP parent.  I get that....and I appreciate the wink....man...I was stirred up....but i do respect your viewpoint. What I appreciate about the DA: Honesty in communication Able to appreciate life outside of the relationship Good boundaries Enjoys space Ability to keep some mystery (doesn't share everything) Just a few. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 15:43:04 GMT
flic asked for my perspective and i am offering it and any reaction of another poster is their business but i am not here to be censored. apparently neither is anybody else. this has taken too much time and energy already. i am going to leave it there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 15:44:19 GMT
no hard feelings i hope, i am going to be me andni don't demand acceptance, i really don't.
i'll have to be taken with a grain of salt if need be.
i just don't want to have these interactions it wears me out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 15:45:46 GMT
it does make sense, in terms of the confusion you are feeling. i can address specifics later if we need to. as an exercise in simplicity tho, just between us without thought to his internal processes, i want to ask you to do something. just as our exercise. Tell me in six sentences or less exactly what you think and feel about this situation. Six or less. include your hope, fear, feelings about him, feelings about your recovery as AP, all of it. just boil it down. do NOT include speculation about him. it will be challenging but this is just to get to the nitty gritty of what's truly going on with you and we will take it from there. by the way, the most detrimental assumption i see is that an AP needs to help their partner be safe. this is not true. we are not receptive or reliant on external things from other individuals for our internal safety and endeavors to keep us safe feel very different to us than intended. Largely because they are based on misunderstandings and fear based perceptions and cannot come close to what we actually need or desire. i see AP miss the mark over and over again with fear based intentions and don't have time to address it all. back to the exercise. six sentences to express your whole truth. Go. 😁👍 So here is the thing Juniper...it may be a lightbulb moment......APs fear abandonment....abandonment fears trigger a lack of safety. We don't offer safety to our partners out of some misguided thought that we can protect our partner...we try to offer safety because that is what we as APs need. We all tend to give what we most want...the issue is that we also don't 1. Consider that we are doing this and thus speak clearly to that need and 2. Because we give what we want to get and vice versa...we create a vast hole where neither person is getting what he/she truly needs since so much is unspoken but reacted upon. We judge what our partner gives us through the lens of our own brokenness...not from the perspective of curiosity. I often said I wanted a handbook for B...not so I could take advantage of what I learned (as I suspect was his fear) but so that I would be able to see things from his perspective correctly and not just through my own AP lens. It is very hard to get to know someone who has been overwhelmed, not accepted and expected to be a certain way from a caregiver who only thought of him/herself. So many barriers to truly getting to know that person, so much suspicion about motives....and all I wanted to do was be the best partner I could be....but I had no map to follow and that stunk. I agree with juniper, I have my own internal safety and endeavors from others to fill a nonexistant need just feels pushing. I understand that APs need safety and I am able to give that, but the problem for me has been that APs I have known, do not know or are unable to RECEIVE it. It feels like they want it and want to reject it all at the same time. I think it is the perception of the AP that DAs do not want to give it, because they don't SEE it and continue to push. The DA is conditioned to give and not receive. DAs give, but in a quieter, slower way. Both are not good receivers, but the difference is that APs need it. (I only speak from my own experience and in no way am I speaking for anyone else). |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 15:47:07 GMT
@floc asked for my perspective and i am offering it and any reaction of another poster is their business but i am not here to be censored. apparently neither is anybody else. this has taken too much time and energy already. i am going to leave it there. I wasn't trying to censor you....I was trying to add some clarity from my own experience...I did not want to derail the thread and I do think you offer some great advice. So let's move forward if that works for you. 😀 |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 15:59:39 GMT
So here is the thing Juniper...it may be a lightbulb moment......APs fear abandonment....abandonment fears trigger a lack of safety. We don't offer safety to our partners out of some misguided thought that we can protect our partner...we try to offer safety because that is what we as APs need. We all tend to give what we most want...the issue is that we also don't 1. Consider that we are doing this and thus speak clearly to that need and 2. Because we give what we want to get and vice versa...we create a vast hole where neither person is getting what he/she truly needs since so much is unspoken but reacted upon. We judge what our partner gives us through the lens of our own brokenness...not from the perspective of curiosity. I often said I wanted a handbook for B...not so I could take advantage of what I learned (as I suspect was his fear) but so that I would be able to see things from his perspective correctly and not just through my own AP lens. It is very hard to get to know someone who has been overwhelmed, not accepted and expected to be a certain way from a caregiver who only thought of him/herself. So many barriers to truly getting to know that person, so much suspicion about motives....and all I wanted to do was be the best partner I could be....but I had no map to follow and that stunk. I agree with juniper , I have my own internal safety and endeavors from others to fill a nonexistant need just feels pushing. I understand that APs need safety and I am able to give that, but the problem for me has been that APs I have known, do not know or are unable to RECEIVE it. It feels like they want it and want to reject it all at the same time. I think it is the perception of the AP that DAs do not want to give it, because they don't SEE it and continue to push. The DA is conditioned to give and not receive. DAs give, but in a quieter, slower way. Both are not good receivers, but the difference is that APs need it. (I only speak from my own experience and in no way am I speaking for anyone else). That is interesting Mary....I think honestly...if I go DEEP on this....that when I don't trust myself...I have a much more challenging time trusting others. So is it really safety I am after? Or is it that absolute sense that I will be OK no matter what...and that cannot come from anyone else. I actually love the quieter and slower pace of DAs...sometimes I feel like I give so much so fast out of some urge that this will give me the security I seek when I think it does the opposite. Thank you for always sharing.😀 |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 16:01:01 GMT
I once said to my guy, "I don't feel like you need me". To which he responded, "It's not that I need you. It's that I want you". Yeah, I'll take that 😊 Yes...that is great...love is a daily choice. 😀 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 16:07:25 GMT
I once said to my guy, "I don't feel like you need me". To which he responded, "It's not that I need you. It's that I want you". Yeah, I'll take that 😊 if we are going to appreciate the honesty and plain speech of a DA, let's try to give it more room instead of blocking what we don't want to hear shall we? 😋 AP's do it all day long here. we can all stand the heat of the fire especially when there is no vitriol . i am just saying. let's all keep our big girl panties on and i say that WITH HUMOR AND LOVE. I wear a thong, most DA i know do. even the men! it's a DA thing. there's a generalization. Lol. i can definitely take it and i can poke fun at myself and i can handle being triggered and then calming down i just can't handle walking on eggshells when i don't even have any axe to grind. i'm just being me and some like me some don't. i have demonstrated a lot of love here and i stand by my intention to be helpful. What kind of under-doodles do AP wear? 😍😘 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 16:11:25 GMT
I once said to my guy, "I don't feel like you need me". To which he responded, "It's not that I need you. It's that I want you". Yeah, I'll take that 😊 when a DA man says that OMG lookout, that's hot. 😍 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 16:29:37 GMT
also, my guy and i are back to warmth and flirting but i am still a little tender because of what insecurity and vulnerability i experienced in my trigger. he teased me and i felt hurt inside. So i played it cool and distanced a little with an aloof text. he immediately said he meant things in a good way and called me silly. I texted right back that i had to prompt him to say it because over text i sometimes am insecure while in person i would have no doubt about his warmth and sweetness. i cannot wait to be with him again after all that trauma and i could not have made it through as fast and as well as i did without the beautiful, selfless, warm, empathetic, generous, tender support of all the AP posters who messaged me privately and publicly on my thread. i will try to remember to say the things i appreciate about AP more. that is a DA shortfall! we often don't say things we are thinking if it isn't on the top of our list. we assume people know or get it. at least i do. if i didn't like AP at all i wouldn't be here trying to help. to me that seems obvious but to someone unsure, they may not feel it. i see you all as siblings in one big dysfunctional family. unhealthy is unhealthy, and i don't like unhealthy, but i'm not perfect and i know it. each type has unique gifts and qualities. strengths and weakness ! anyway, my partner and i, we keep it real constantly and that is the only chance we have to make each other safe. so my expression of that here is the best i can do, i never mean to shame. i really don't. but if i hold back to make sure i have it right i might not be able to say it at all. i am posting between busy day tasks and i want to participate and i am doing the best i can. so please forgive mis-speaking but also try to trust me. i'm doing the same!  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 17:03:26 GMT
Yes, he is hot 😍😍😍 Anyway, just my perspective, I have no freaking clue why I became an emotional disaster and, franky, I really don't care. I'm working on me, here and now. I'm focusing on my negative self thoughts and replacing them with new positive ones. It's a choice. It's hard. I still have bad days and say stupid stuff. But, luckily he easily forgives me bcuz it's rare and benign. I try to treat him with compassion and respect and listen to what he says because I've realized that I don't have to figure him out. He actually tells me what he's thinking. Took me a while to realize that bcuz, mostly, what he's thinking makes no sense to me, LOL But, I got it now. Key is to realize that you have to meet your own needs. AP don't get that. Until you get that, you'll always be AP. You have to achieve happiness and fulfillment away from your partner. They should add to you life, not be your life. i love this. yes, take care of you and i want to cheerlead every AP here to first and foremost, honor your own truth!! so often it is hidden because of the fear of vulnerability. DA do it also but i am not having a lot of inteactiok of this nature with DA posters because their participation on the forum is of a different nature and they aren't trying to grow in relationship to a DA mate. so i am saying to you what i would say to a DA. know what you think and feel and say THAT to your partner. often the fear of seeming needy causes AP to be aloof when really, they aren't. But a more authentic way of interacting would serve them better, and their partners. i know it's scary and vulnerable but no worse than making assumptions (which are really scary and usually extremely painful) and hiding. hiding is isolation. remember i shared that i started just blurting out my feelings so i wouldn't put them through my protective, less than honest filters. i had to learn it also. just to become real and vulnerable and honor myself. my partner responded by caring deeply about what i shared. he met me halfway when i let him. and i am here to encourage it, that's all. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 17:13:25 GMT
I think what works for each person is an individual journey....mine takes a different shape and form but it is mine. I do like to figure things out...it helps me ( and my little girl) to understand where the triggers started...what certain responses are tied to. I am so very grateful that I have a group of friends who accept me unconditionally...it has been such a blessing.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 19, 2018 17:25:38 GMT
I once said to my guy, "I don't feel like you need me". To which he responded, "It's not that I need you. It's that I want you". Yeah, I'll take that 😊 if we are going to appreciate the honesty and plain speech of a DA, let's try to give it more room instead of blocking what we don't want to hear shall we? 😋 AP's do it all day long here. we can all stand the heat of the fire especially when there is no vitriol . i am just saying. let's all keep our big girl panties on and i say that WITH HUMOR AND LOVE. I wear a thong, most DA i know do. even the men! it's a DA thing. there's a generalization. Lol. i can definitely take it and i can poke fun at myself and i can handle being triggered and then calming down i just can't handle walking on eggshells when i don't even have any axe to grind. i'm just being me and some like me some don't. i have demonstrated a lot of love here and i stand by my intention to be helpful. What kind of under-doodles do AP wear? 😍😘 I get what you are saying juniper....believe me, speaking only for me...it isn't blocking...it is reacting because there is no boundary and it all goes "in". I recognize that....it is a key area of work....what matters and what doesn't. What to take in and what to acknowledge but keep apart. It has been a ROUGH day and I probably should not have come here because I was already a bit fragile before I posted anything. Sometimes things just spill over and I have to regroup. Ok...trying to find my way back to humor...I swear I have it....but darn...it is eluding me.🤔 |
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